Has Casey Mittelstadt changed any minds?

[dudacek]

53 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I honestly believe the hang up some have is they are so fixated on an opinion they have of him 2, 3, 4 years ago, that they don’t want to change their mind even with new data. They don’t want to admit that their earlier assessment and definitive judgement was wrong. And couple that with the tired and flawed opinion that a “1st round forward draft pick must be a top 6 player in the NHL or he’s a bust” mindset. 
 

I think fan bases tend to overrate their local favourites against a league backdrop and underrate their whipping boys.

This thread has reinforced that for me.

It’s still entirely reasonable to say I want a different type of player in that role.  “JAG” and “Not sure I’d offer him a contract” are things that no longer reasonably apply to the player we’ve watched this season.

And if you thought he was a bust and still haven’t changed your mind, either your mind is closed or you don’t know what bust means.

Edited April 2, 2023 by dudacek

[Taro T]

Barring something horrific, he's going to be a 50 point player this year.

Could see him as a 60 point player getting away from Asplund, Hinostroza, and Olofsson. He definitely will be away from the 1st 2 next year.  

If he were playing with Cozens and Quinn (won't happen, Peterka gets glued to their sides) he definitely would be a 60 point guy.  Playing with Jost and Savoie next year, he could do it.

 

[Doohicksie]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Playing with Jost and Savoie next year, he could do it.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Radar said:

Unfortunately I think VO's value is dropping all the time. Part of package deal possibly.

Honestly I don't care what we got for him or even if he ended up waived as long as we upgrade the position. If we can get a pick or prospect all the better. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I see him on the team next year but with Savioe, Kulich, and maybe some others emerging, he may be gone after that.  

With the team finally starting to have a full roster (or closer to it) it'll come down to how he sees himself and what his agent wants for money. If we accepts 3rd line money he will be here longer term. If he wants to be paid like a 1st or 2nd liner he will be gone. At least that's how I'd look at it if I was KA. 

Players on this team are going to have to accept their roles and be paid accordingly for this thing to work long term. 

[mjd1001]

A 40 assist guy on a line that isn't you top line is pretty good.  That means you are making at least some plays and setting up things on the offensive zone that is positive.  Its a big step up.

Last year he wasn't productive at all, but the coaching staff said over and over and OVER (to the point most of us didn't want to hear it) that he was getting better and he was playing well in the ways they wanted him to play. Maybe all the stuff they see in practice does give them a lot more vision to players development than any of us see in a game.

Mitts is used on the PP, but is mostly on the 2nd unit. His stats/goals might be a little higher if he got some first unit time, but that isn't going to happen.

He's made a huge jump this year in his assist totals, if he just made a slight additional jump next year in his goal scorer, he could turn into a 60 point guy.

He is also a player than can benefit from the D-unit getting better.  I'm not sure how much ice time he gets with Dahlin, but the 'eye test' tells me the First line gets the benefit of Dahline getting the puck up the ice more than Mitts does.  If the bottom 4 D-mean get better next year, it might have a marginal impact on Mitts line, giving him just a few more shots and a few more minutes of ice time in the offensive zone that may benefit stats/production even more.  Sometimes a better D-corp leads to more production from the forwards, as they spend less ice time in their own zone and more of their ice time attaking.

[TheAud]

Mitts has changed my mind on him this past 40 games or so with his tenacity along the boards and playmaking. I love him as a high end 3rd liner who can move up to the Top 6 as an injury fill-in. Mind you, I am talking about his role on a contending team, which is the goal here. 

So if the financials can work, I'd like to see him in that role for the next 5 years or so. 

[irregularly irregular]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Honestly I don't care what we got for him or even if he ended up waived as long as we upgrade the position. If we can get a pick or prospect all the better. 

Upgrade the position... yes absolutely. Trade him for a pick or a prospect... absolutely NOT. You'd be the first in line to crucify KA if that was all he got in a trade of Mitts.

[TheAud]

1 hour ago, irregularly irregular said:

Upgrade the position... yes absolutely. Trade him for a pick or a prospect... absolutely NOT. You'd be the first in line to crucify KA if that was all he got in a trade of Mitts.

I think he was talking about VO not Mitts

[irregularly irregular]

1 minute ago, TheAud said:

I think he was talking about VO not Mitts

Okay, my bad if so. Mittelstadt thread with the usual conversation tangents. Regardless, need more than that for VO.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, irregularly irregular said:

Upgrade the position... yes absolutely. Trade him for a pick or a prospect... absolutely NOT. You'd be the first in line to crucify KA if that was all he got in a trade of Mitts.

Not if he replaces him with a better FA. If we spend and end up with too many bodies I'm fine with trading him. I only have a handful of do not trade guys on this team and even them, if you upgrade it's fine. 

[HumanSlinky39]

He's a decent, sometimes good, sometimes "oof" middle-six winger. Don't like him as a Centerman. I've always thought the hate he attracts is overblown. I'm sure part of it is his draft position and the hype he arrived with...I doubt he ever lives up to that. But, he's a useful player. I think he's one of our better-checking forwards, has pretty good vision that allows him to set up his teammates.

[SABRES 0311]

Yes, I dislike him less. If it’s between him and VO I would trade Bryson.

Edited April 2, 2023 by SABRES 0311

[kas23]

I’m ecstatic he is approaching 50 pts. Great situation for us to trade him (and VO) for a high quality defenseman. We are a top 3 offensive team in the NHL, so I’m in the high tide lifts all ships camp. I’m sure Kulich or Savoie will deliver us equal results within the next 2 years. We cannot sign all players we develop, especially forwards. We just don’t have the cap room to sign him to an above $5M contract. We need defensive help big time and I view Mitts as part of the solution to get it. 

[Ducky]

On 3/7/2023 at 12:28 AM, thewookie1 said:

IF he continues this play through to the playoffs 🙂 I'd give him another year to follow it up with.

However I would trade him for a 4D if the situation arose. 

Dillon for Mitts this summer?

[TheAud]

1 hour ago, Ducky said:

Dillon for Mitts this summer?

[Night Train]

So maybe 1 more year (last year of his contract) and then see what his agent requests ?  Would he accept a lower line role ?  Will he be used as a trade chip this off-season ?  Lots of questions. 

Sabres do have a lot of youth that need a slot. Look at some posters, talking like Savoie, Kulich and a few others are already here. 

[Zamboni]

5 minutes ago, Night Train said:

So maybe 1 more year (last year of his contract) and then see what his agent requests ?  Would he accept a lower line role ?  Will he be used as a trade chip this off-season ?  Lots of questions. 

Sabres do have a lot of youth that need a slot. Look at some posters, talking like Savoie, Kulich and a few others are already here. 

A lot of that talk is just wishful thinking. I don’t think both of those and others will be permanent “make the team out of camp“ additions to the roster next season.

VO, Bryson, KO, Mitts, and Anderson, I think are the leading candidates for not being on the roster next season. With KO and Anderson having no value, It’s not a lot of trade capital but it is some thing. 

[Doohicksie]

13 hours ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

I think he's one of our better-checking forwards, has pretty good vision that allows him to set up his teammates.

I think both of these areas are where he's shown the most improvement. 

He's steadily gotten more confident playing a physical game.  And he's also gotten better at advancing the puck, by passing or dumping (as opposed to trying to stickhandle all the time).  Once established in the zone he's gotten better at finding the open man.

[MattPie]

9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

A lot of that talk is just wishful thinking. I don’t think both of those and others will be permanent “make the team out of camp“ additions to the roster next season.

VO, Bryson, KO, Mitts, and Anderson, I think are the leading candidates for not being on the roster next season. With KO and Anderson having no value, It’s not a lot of trade capital but it is some thing. 

I think the Sabres are at the point where kids coming up need to fill a *need* not just replace a body like this year. As much fun as having a bunch of 100% rookies in the lineup this year is, going forward it should be more like 1-3 skaters at most. It's doubtful any of the next batch of kids are going to replace KO or Mitts out of the gate. It's not entirely about offence, they might do that. It's about the full spectrum of hockey skills that the older players bring that you can't expect most 20-year-olds to fill in the NHL *yet*.

KO out if he wants to retire

Anderson out (I have to think)

Maybe VO gone in a deal

I'd love to see a partner for Power and push Joki down a spot; maybe that's Johnson, maybe that's a trade/FA

 

The way I'm looking at it, you find a two-way vet for KO, and maybe one of the kids for VO or another two-way vet. Mitts stays unless he's part of a solid 3/4D trade.

[inkman]

19 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think fan bases tend to overrate their local favourites against a league backdrop and underrate their whipping boys.

This thread has reinforced that for me.

It’s still entirely reasonable to say I want a different type of player in that role.  “JAG” and “Not sure I’d offer him a contract” are things that no longer reasonably apply to the player we’ve watched this season.

And if you thought he was a bust and still haven’t changed your mind, either your mind is closed or you don’t know what bust means.

Bust 

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://theathletic.com/4368716/2023/04/03/buffalo-sabres-underrated-players/

From an Athletic article about the most underrated player on the team according to its players. (Samuelsson won - no surprise)

Here is what a few players said about Mitts.

Casey Mittelstadt (2)

Owen Power: “I just think he’s so smart. He makes so many good little plays that I think a lot of people kind of miss just watching the game. But when you really sit down and watch and understand his game, you realize all those plays he makes and how smart he really is.

Jack Quinn: “I’ll go with Mittelstadt. I think he does so many little things that go unnoticed. He’s not the fastest skater or the flashiest, but all of the little plays he makes with puck protections and he keeps pucks alive, I just think he has a lot of hockey sense. Sometimes maybe people don’t notice that.”

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://theathletic.com/4368716/2023/04/03/buffalo-sabres-underrated-players/

From an Athletic article about the most underrated player on the team according to its players. (Samuelsson won - no surprise)

Here is what a few players said about Mitts.

Casey Mittelstadt (2)

Owen Power: “I just think he’s so smart. He makes so many good little plays that I think a lot of people kind of miss just watching the game. But when you really sit down and watch and understand his game, you realize all those plays he makes and how smart he really is.

Jack Quinn: “I’ll go with Mittelstadt. I think he does so many little things that go unnoticed. He’s not the fastest skater or the flashiest, but all of the little plays he makes with puck protections and he keeps pucks alive, I just think he has a lot of hockey sense. Sometimes maybe people don’t notice that.”

It's apparent that Casey is well-liked and respected in the room. However, he needs to work on his shot and be more willing to shoot instead of trying to force some passes. Next year, I could project a third line of Savoie, Jost and Mitts. That would be an interesting line. If Greenway gets healthy and his game is restored, it will be interesting to see where he will be slotted. Our roster is steadily being filled with a number of options/mixtures within the lines. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Casey Mittelstadt (2)

Owen Power: “I just think he’s so smart. He makes so many good little plays that I think a lot of people kind of miss just watching the game. But when you really sit down and watch and understand his game, you realize all those plays he makes and how smart he really is.

Jack Quinn: “I’ll go with Mittelstadt. I think he does so many little things that go unnoticed. He’s not the fastest skater or the flashiest, but all of the little plays he makes with puck protections and he keeps pucks alive, I just think he has a lot of hockey sense. Sometimes maybe people don’t notice that.”

I think "all those little plays" are things that are fairly new to his game.  Earlier in his career he didn't make them.  Looking at the first Tuch goal on Saturday, the Old Casey would have tried to carry the puck up the ice and never made it into the Philly zone.  Instead he touched it up the boards a few times, getting past one Flyer at a time, until he could finally dish to Tuch for the open shot.  Two years ago, Mitts doesn't make that play.

And I will say, he doesn't always "make the play."  He will go after 50-50 pucks and a lot of the time he doesn't get it, but in the challenge for the puck it slows the other team up and allows the Sabres to get into better position and possibly wait for help to arrive to gain possession.  If you look at the teams that the Sabres struggle with, they do the same thing really- never allowing the Sabres to make the clean play and forcing them into mistakes.  That's Casey's game, and I think that will play well in the playoffs (whether this year or next).  He doesn't play a beautiful game like Tage or Skinner, he plays a tough, persistent game.

1 hour ago, MattPie said:

The way I'm looking at it, you find a two-way vet for KO, and maybe one of the kids for VO or another two-way vet. Mitts stays unless he's part of a solid 3/4D trade.

I think Casey might be that replacement for KO.

[MattPie]

6 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think Casey might be that replacement for KO.

Has Casey been skating on the RW? I think he's always listed as C/LW. That's not a bad idea if he's comfortable on that side (or they shuffle things around and someone else plays RW while he plays on LW). Does seem like 50+ points might be too costly for a 3/4 line wing when his contract comes around though.