Has Casey Mittelstadt changed any minds?

[TRIP65]

8 hours ago, Curt said:

I mean this in the most sincere way:  I think that you should watch his current play more closely.  What you are saying was much more true 2-3 years ago, but I don’t think it’s accurate any longer.

Mittelstadt has gotten a lot stronger and he is not a small player.  6’1” 200 lbs and he uses his size much better than he used to.  I don’t think it’s a weakness of his any longer.

Trade bait good 13 player. Like Hiro better

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

@dudacekreading the thread, there’s been some shift on how’s he’s perceived, but not a ton. What I find revelatory however is that your thread seems to answer a question it didn’t pose: NM Casey, has the perception of where the Buffalo Sabres are going, changed? 

If we are talking about a 50 point guy possibly falling prey to looming Sabres competition we have on the way, probably says something about our current depth, in perception. And how long it’s been since it was viewed in this way.

Good read, although there still seems to be a streak of people not wanting him around basically because he's not Cozens, as opposed to him not being a viable 5th or 6th forward.

People seem to have forgotten that Casey was every bit as highly-ranked a prospect in his D1 season as Kulich and Savoie.

And that the Sabres should be happy if the 9th pick in the draft turns into a viable 2nd liner and ecstatic if the 28th does the same.

Edited March 7, 2023 by dudacek

[In The Buff]

Casey has come a long way from this. I've really been impressed

[TRIP65]

7 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Cozens is a big, hard skating shoot first centre. He needs a playmaking winger to compliment his game. Mitts has filled that role very nicely. I would like to see Mitts-Cozens-Quinn when Tuch returns.

 

Quinn works well on top line, starting to produce. Gonna do it, should be Tuch, Cozens, Middlestat.

[triumph_communes]

10 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

Why, we have tons of Prospects to move up. Clogged at Sabres Level

Peterka is NOT a assest now and needs to go back down to remain a "good" prospect. Not ready.

Time for Kulich NOW, swap them, nothing to lose.

This is an interesting thought. Coach/GM is all about development, but they have steered clear of the conversations about when to choose one young players development versus anothers. Asplund being scratched went on for months until a solution was finally found. There’s been no inklings I’m aware of when the likes of Kulich’s development outweighs Peterka’s. As much as they are likely to try to just push this to the off season, I’m fully in the position of let’s see what Levi can do- it can’t be worse than what we get out of our three goalies today on their off nights. Could Kulich be our next Pominville?

10 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

Why, we have tons of Prospects 

Edited March 7, 2023 by triumph_communes

[TRIP65]

6 hours ago, tom webster said:

My vision of top 13

Tuch, Skinner, Tage, Quinn. Dylan, JJP, Krebs, Kulich, Savoie, Krebs, Some version of Greenway, Some version of Z, Traditional checking center.

This doesn’t even account for any other prospect that might exceed expectations. 

No room for Casey and with his play of late, he should bring in something good.

Peterka not READY

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Got him.

HELL no on evaluation year next season. Just stop 

I think you are interpreting my use of evaluation as a negative.  I’m not.  I’m talking about giving KA another year to decide if he needs to make a long-term commitment to those players.  Jost is an RFA and Casey has one more year.  If Casey builds on this season next year there will be a strong argument to retain him long-term. However if he doesn’t then giving his job to Kulich/Savoie etc becomes easier.  KA might have to cut Casey loose anyway, but at least he’ll have more info to make that hard decision.

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, msw2112 said:

I see him as a "victim" of his draft position.  If he had been drafted in the 2nd round or later, everyone would be happy with where he is in his career now.  Given that he was a top-10 1st round pick, expecations were/are much higher.  At some point, folks have to let draft position go, and decide whether the guy can help the team.  I think he can.  And he's not going to get paid superstar/top-10 money, so if he can play a good middle-6 role and get paid as such, there shouldn't be an issue.  That said, given the influx of young forwards in the coming years, I agree that he might get squeezed out.  While he isn't going to get $7M, he's going to make more than a guy on a rookie contract and they can't keep everybody.

Or even if he came over in a trade. Or waivers. I looked a bit ago and Casey and Jost are of similar draft pedigree, Jost being a year younger. If Casey had been an acquisition in the last few months, we'd all be pretty happy.

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Good read, although there still seems to be a streak of people not wanting him around basically because he's not Cozens, as opposed to him not being a viable 5th or 6th forward.

People seem to have forgotten that Casey was every bit as highly-ranked a prospect in his D1 season as Kulich and Savoie.

And that the Sabres should be happy if the 9th pick in the draft turns into a viable 2nd liner and ecstatic if the 28th does the same.

Maybe it’s just me but I’d be terrified to trade him at this stage. And I’m almost never never never the “don’t trade anyone” Guy. But Casey always had ridiculous skill. The question was always if he could find a two-way, gritty game “foothold” in this league. Now that he unquestionably has, I’m not going to be the Guy doubting his ability to launch off from that newly established launch pad. At this stage he’s high on the defcon scale for me for likelihood of having unexplored upside still to come 

frankly, if I’m right twice on Casey (see upthread) we’re laughing 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Thorny

[TRIP65]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And what if he goes for 70 pts next season?  Will that make it more or less likely he gets sent packing?

Casey has 12 pts (3g) in his last 12 games and now solidified himself as Cozens LW.  If he continues near this pace for the rest of the season, is he working himself into the core?  

Can we afford another $6 mill plus forward?  

The better Middlestat produces the better the trade. He will be a 6 mil forward if he produces soon. Time to move him and bring up cheaper players with years to give cheap and a cheap fist contract. Only way you keep Tuch, Tage, Skinner, Cozens, Dahlin and Power. Even Krebs and Quinn someday will NOT fit on Roster. Someone gets traded to fit them. Have money for 4-5 plus 7 mil guys, that is it.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

The better Middlestat produces the better the trade. He will be a 6 mil forward if he produces soon. Time to move him and bring up cheaper players with years to give cheap and a cheap fist contract. Only way you keep Tuch, Tage, Skinner, Cozens, Dahlin and Power. Even Krebs and Quinn someday will NOT fit on Roster. Someone gets traded to fit them. Have money for 4-5 plus 7 mil guys, that is it.

Hmm.. Quinn? 

Id be surprised if he isn’t better than Tuch by the time Tuch’s deal is up 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Thorny

[MattPie]

4 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

The better Middlestat produces the better the trade. He will be a 6 mil forward if he produces soon. Time to move him and bring up cheaper players with years to give cheap and a cheap fist contract. Only way you keep Tuch, Tage, Skinner, Cozens, Dahlin and Power. Even Krebs and Quinn someday will NOT fit on Roster. Someone gets traded to fit them. Have money for 4-5 plus 7 mil guys, that is it.

We can worry about that when it comes to pass. Too long have the Sabres penciled guys in that have played ZERO NHL games to start jettisoning people that can play. We have no idea what Kulich and to a lesser degree Savoie are going to look like in 2 years.

Edited March 7, 2023 by MattPie

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’ve changed my mind. He should be traded at seasons end for whatever KA can get.

@TRIP65 I was joking.  I'm one of Casey's biggest supporters here.  I think he has the potential to be a pt-a-game player in the NHL.  I think we are seeing much of that potential unlocked as he has formed excellent chemistry with his buddy Cozens.  

That said, I am also a realist.  Due to our forward depth and the development of guys like JPP, Kulich, and Savoie, the odds of us not being able to afford to keep Casey increase with his improved production.  Fortunately, he is under contract for one more season and I'm pretty confident he'll be back next fall.  Still, as I pointed out up thread if the price to get a quality player to partner with Power is Casey, KA would have to consider it.

 

[TRIP65]

4 hours ago, JustOneParade said:

Casey with Cozens and Quinn will be an increasingly effective line - and they're pretty good now (when Tuch was available). At some point in the near future I see Savoie centering Kulich and JJP. That line will be fun to watch too.

Can't run rookies and 1st year guys together and expect to make playoffs.

Quinn Tage Skinner

Tuch Cozen Kulich

Olofsson/Middlestat (trade)    Krebs   Greenway

Girg  Savoie/Jost  Okoposo

HINOSTROZA and JOST as next man in

 

4 hours ago, Contempt said:

Unsurprised.

So, have no clause on TRADE

Makes him more tradeable

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@TRIP65 I was joking.  I'm one of Casey's biggest supporters here.  I think he has the potential to be a pt-a-game player in the NHL.  I think we are seeing much of that potential unlocked as he has formed excellent chemistry with his buddy Cozens.  

That said, I am also a realist.  Due to our forward depth and the development of guys like JPP, Kulich, and Savoie, the odds of us not being able to afford to keep Casey increase with his improved production.  Fortunately, he is under contract for one more season and I'm pretty confident he'll be back next fall.  Still, as I pointed out up thread if the price to get a quality player to partner with Power is Casey, KA would have to consider it.

 

PPG might be stretching it but he'll almost definitely be a 60 point player and could easily see 70 points from him.

Doubt he gets a 7-8 year deal this summer but could easily see a 4-5 year deal without a NMC attached.  Or with a very limited NMC attached.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@TRIP65 I was joking.  I'm one of Casey's biggest supporters here.  I think he has the potential to be a pt-a-game player in the NHL.  I think we are seeing much of that potential unlocked as he has formed excellent chemistry with his buddy Cozens.  

That said, I am also a realist.  Due to our forward depth and the development of guys like JPP, Kulich, and Savoie, the odds of us not being able to afford to keep Casey increase with his improved production.  Fortunately, he is under contract for one more season and I'm pretty confident he'll be back next fall.  Still, as I pointed out up thread if the price to get a quality player to partner with Power is Casey, KA would have to consider it.

 

No, you were his biggest supporter, bar none 

[TRIP65]

24 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Good read, although there still seems to be a streak of people not wanting him around basically because he's not Cozens, as opposed to him not being a viable 5th or 6th forward.

People seem to have forgotten that Casey was every bit as highly-ranked a prospect in his D1 season as Kulich and Savoie.

And that the Sabres should be happy if the 9th pick in the draft turns into a viable 2nd liner and ecstatic if the 28th does the same.

More when Sabres made 2nd line Center, he FAILED

We now have NEW Prospects with high ceilings. Where Casey is will be a 4-5 mil player when you can do this at 1 mil with all the Sabres Prospects. Not needed by Sabres now, that is the point, get picks for 5-6 years from now when you have 6-7 high paid guys and will need cheap answers.

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

The better Middlestat produces the better the trade. He will be a 6 mil forward if he produces soon. Time to move him and bring up cheaper players with years to give cheap and a cheap fist contract. Only way you keep Tuch, Tage, Skinner, Cozens, Dahlin and Power. Even Krebs and Quinn someday will NOT fit on Roster. Someone gets traded to fit them. Have money for 4-5 plus 7 mil guys, that is it.

The cap isn't an issue now.  We are at about 65 million for next season and may not be an issue for years to come if the projected cap increase happens as predicted.  

Let's say for example that Casey hits 70 points next year and you trade him before 2024-25, what kind of production would you expect from a 20-year-old Kulich and/or Savoie?  20-year-old Cozens had 38 pts in 79 games.  21-year-old Quinn has 29 in 55 games.  20-year-old JJP has 21 in 59 games. 20-year-old Casey had 25 pts in 77 games.  So even if they are exceptional as rookies, we are unlikely to replace Casey's production and strength along the boards.  

For team looking to compete in the playoffs, isn't that arguably a step backward if we can afford to keep him?

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[TageMVP]

I'd still trade him 

Seems like his likely ceiling in goals is only going to be about 20 

While he does seem to be better in some aspects, he still makes headscratching plays 

He's very average to me. And he will desire an extension. No thanks. He's like a Jochen Hecht, but worse 

Edited March 7, 2023 by TageMVP

[TRIP65]

23 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

This is an interesting thought. Coach/GM is all about development, but they have steered clear of the conversations about when to choose one young players development versus anothers. Asplund being scratched went on for months until a solution was finally found. There’s been no inklings I’m aware of when the likes of Kulich’s development outweighs Peterka’s. As much as they are likely to try to just push this to the off season, I’m fully in the position of let’s see what Levi can do- it can’t be worse than what we get out of our three goalies today on their off nights. Could Kulich be our next Pominville?

Still believe in Peterka but 1st year has been NOT GOOD

Quinn and Krebs slow to develop but I believe have arrived. Tage, Cozens have nailed it

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No, you were his biggest supporter, bar none 

Turns out I was correct. 🙂  It's so nice not to have to fight with everyone over him any longer.

[TRIP65]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you are interpreting my use of evaluation as a negative.  I’m not.  I’m talking about giving KA another year to decide if he needs to make a long-term commitment to those players.  Jost is an RFA and Casey has one more year.  If Casey builds on this season next year there will be a strong argument to retain him long-term. However if he doesn’t then giving his job to Kulich/Savoie etc becomes easier.  KA might have to cut Casey loose anyway, but at least he’ll have more info to make that hard decision.

Fine, just NOT a rostor spot at expense of Kulich, Savoie coming up. Middlestat and Olfsson have had PLENTY of time to prove their worth.

[TageMVP]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Turns out I was correct. 🙂  It's so nice not to have to fight with everyone over him any longer.

Are you related to him 

[TRIP65]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Hmm.. Quinn? 

Id be surprised if he isn’t better than Tuch by the time Tuch’s deal is up 

OK with that. Tuch is pretty good though and still can get better. Bit different players too.

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No, you were his biggest supporter, bar none 

He was the loudest.  Not sure that makes him the biggest.