Locker Clean Out Days

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So much respect for what Adams did for the culture this year.

He made good people treating each other properly the focus above all else and in just one season totally transformed the way I feel about my team.

So much was said about his lack of experience when he was hired. But he’s the anti-Tim Murray. So much of management has nothing to do with analytics, or negotiations, or evaluating talent. It’s about creating an environment where people are empowered to succeed.

If Johnson, Portillo and Levi don’t want to be part of this (for the record, I’ve seen no sign that’s the case) we probably don’t want them anyway.

To the bolded, would say you've defined leadership, rather than management.  And that's what's so frustrating about Krueger's tenure.  He was billed as a world class leadership expert, so much so that he's apparently been a speaker at Davos.  And maybe he did empower the players to be their best when things were going well, but he didn't/ couldn't do it when adversity hit & that's when leadership is most important.  (Guess the old axiom holds, those who can, do, & those who can't, teach.  😉 )

Props to @Doohickie, he saw Krueger as a snake oil salesman from day 1.

Am really coming around towards Adams.  He likes to talk about his own willingness to ask questions & learn; let's hope for all our sakes he asks the right people the right questions to figure how to get quality goaltending in the fold today (well, this sumer) and not just be set up for it 3 years from now.

[Weave]

42 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He didn't NEED to be a leader here, but reality is he WAS one of the leaders on this team and he had an influence on the culture.

Also, Tuch wasn't here when the trade w/ Florida went down and pretty sure neither Pysyk nor Anderson was a Sabre at that point either.  Adams had a plan & stuck to it.

Given the outcome so far of all the moves to date, I am 100% comfortable with the idea  that Sam had to go as well to make this conversion.

[inkman]

Okie dropping knowledge 

 

[RangerDave]

4 hours ago, steveoath said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing I noticed with each of the interviews is that every player is smiling!  How different is that this year?

[North Buffalo]

Skinner a lot more serious than I expected and more uncomfortable in front of the camera

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Nice when all the FAs are begging to stay 

 

Don’t know if we have a place for them tho

This is going to get interesting.  We might need to lose a couple of guys we like to really improve the team over the next couple of years.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, would say you've defined leadership, rather than management.  And that's what's so frustrating about Krueger's tenure.  He was billed as a world class leadership expert, so much so that he's apparently been a speaker at Davos.  And maybe he did empower the players to be their best when things were going well, but he didn't/ couldn't do it when adversity hit & that's when leadership is most important.  (Guess the old axiom holds, those who can, do, & those who can't, teach.  😉 )

Props to @Doohickie, he saw Krueger as a snake oil salesman from day 1.

Am really coming around towards Adams.  He likes to talk about his own willingness to ask questions & learn; let's hope for all our sakes he asks the right people the right questions to figure how to get quality goaltending in the fold today (well, this sumer) and not just be set up for it 3 years from now.

Seconded on @Doohickie.

27 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

The thing I noticed with each of the interviews is that every player is smiling!  How different is that this year?

Enormous.  Over the past few years, going back to even DDB, I saw things in the interviews that I really did not like.  Last season's interviews were the perfect horrible culmination of a disastrous season.

[bg17]

57 minutes ago, inkman said:

Okie dropping knowledge 

 

Mitts might not live up to his draft position but he’s got skills and he’s freaking relentless out there. Definitely a place for him regardless. 

[Zamboni]

Tuch either has a cold, a nervous twitch, or he’s into the nose candy pretty deep.  😂

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Tuch either has a cold, a nervous twitch, or he’s into the nose candy pretty deep.  😂

Or, as for 90% of those in WNY, the Claritan isn't really working this allergy season. 😉

 

[woods-racer]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Or, as for 90% of those in WNY, the Claritan isn't really working this allergy season. 😉

 

I was in WNY today on a nice little hike and I blew my nose right before I read this and just smiled. Pollen season. It comes right before mosquito season.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, would say you've defined leadership, rather than management.  And that's what's so frustrating about Krueger's tenure.  He was billed as a world class leadership expert, so much so that he's apparently been a speaker at Davos.  And maybe he did empower the players to be their best when things were going well, but he didn't/ couldn't do it when adversity hit & that's when leadership is most important.  (Guess the old axiom holds, those who can, do, & those who can't, teach.  😉 )

Props to @Doohickie, he saw Krueger as a snake oil salesman from day 1.

Am really coming around towards Adams.  He likes to talk about his own willingness to ask questions & learn; let's hope for all our sakes he asks the right people the right questions to figure how to get quality goaltending in the fold today (well, this sumer) and not just be set up for it 3 years from now.

One of the attributes that KA possesses in how he operates that is the opposite from how Krueger operates is that cited by people who know him and have worked with him is that he is a collaborator and a listener. He is open-minded and receptive to ideas from others. It was reported by many that Krueger dispatched Chris Taylor, the coach in Rochester, because CT wasn't sold on what he was espousing as it related to coaching in the NHL. If that situation happened with KA he would have asked the subordinate coach why he thought what he did and seriously consider the difference. That is not to say he would have agreed with the different opinion but he wouldn't out of hand dismiss it. 

KA is secure enough to surround himself with experienced people. Karmonos was a major hire for him. Although as a GM KA was inexperienced he was confident enough to hire an experienced executive who had strong thoughts about the game and running a franchise. It isn't just about surrounding yourself with talented executives. More importantly, he empowered them to do their job and solicit their opinions. The bottom line is that he has the final say on the hockey operation. But before he gets to that point he genuinely seeks input from the staff so that the final decision has been made after a thorough and thoughtful process. 

I'm simply impressed by him in the way he has rebuilt the organization where everyone is working together and moving in the same direction.  

[mjd1001]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

Given the outcome so far of all the moves to date, I am 100% comfortable with the idea  that Sam had to go as well to make this conversion.

I agree. This was brought up before but it is also worth considering...IF Sam had stayed here, he would likely be a Center (where he was moved to last year and played well). If he was your #1 Center going into this year...or more simply a guy on the roster that was going to take up a LOT of minutes at center, would Tage ever have been moved to Center at the end of training camp? and even if he was how much of an opportunity would he have been given there?

If Sam was here he might be producing, but instead of a Tage Thompson playing at Center approaching 40 goals, you might have still had your Tage Thompson at wing struggling to put in 15 goals and be noticed at all.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree. This was brought up before but it is also worth considering...IF Sam had stayed here, he would likely be a Center (where he was moved to last year and played well). If he was your #1 Center going into this year...or more simply a guy on the roster that was going to take up a LOT of minutes at center, would Tage ever have been moved to Center at the end of training camp? and even if he was how much of an opportunity would he have been given there?

If Sam was here he might be producing, but instead of a Tage Thompson playing at Center approaching 40 goals, you might have still had your Tage Thompson at wing struggling to put in 15 goals and be noticed at all.

This is fair but IMHO the biggest reason Reino had to go was that he didn’t want to be here.  I think KA was 100% right about that being a deal-breaker.  

[Weave]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

This is fair but IMHO the biggest reason Reino had to go was that he didn’t want to be here.  I think KA was 100% right about that being a deal-breaker.  

I think that is a big part of it.  Maybe the majority of it.  But I don’t think we should overlook the fact that there was a clique in the locker room that needed to go.  We know that Jack was likely the engine that drove the clique, but you can’t have a clique of just one.

I think it was telling that in Zemgus’ interview he didn’t say maybe Jack needed a change of scenery.  He said “they” needed a change of scenery.  And the team needed some new blood.

Not saying Sam was a cancer.  I am saying that there was risk that the clique doesn’t fully go without Sam and Risto going too.  Add to that Sam not wanting to be part of a rebuild and you’ve got all the incentive you need to move Sam too.

He probably would have done well on this year’s team.  But you have to want to be here, and you have to want to be with the guys that remain.  I don’t think either halves of that statement were true for Sam.

[PASabreFan]

13 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Skinner a lot more serious than I expected and more uncomfortable in front of the camera

You never noticed he looks like Newman with fleas?

[triumph_communes]

Link to Eichel interview?

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

 

Not saying Sam was a cancer.  I am saying that there was risk that the clique doesn’t fully go without Sam and Risto going too.  Add to that Sam not wanting to be part of a rebuild and you’ve got all the incentive you need to move Sam too.

 

I never got the impression that Risto was part of that clique, or any clique.  In the very little we could tell from the outside, I thought he had a much better attitude about being in Buffalo than Sam and Jack.  The issue with Risto for me was simply, he wasn't that good at all.   Of course We/I could be wrong and he could have been a major problem in the Lockeroom.....but personally I just viewed him as a Girgensons that played the back end with a lot more minutes and making a lot more mistakes.

[woods-racer]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I never got the impression that Risto was part of that clique, or any clique.  In the very little we could tell from the outside, I thought he had a much better attitude about being in Buffalo than Sam and Jack.  The issue with Risto for me was simply, he wasn't that good at all.   Of course We/I could be wrong and he could have been a major problem in the Lockeroom.....but personally I just viewed him as a Girgensons that played the back end with a lot more minutes and making a lot more mistakes.

He had his rumblings to the press to the effect..

* I wouldn't mind a trade...*

KA made that wish come true. Plus he was not good in his own end and we got a great return for him. 

The return KA was able to get for Jack/Sam/Risto combined was better than expected. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Zamboni]

You want to be here for a long time Tage? Put your money where your mouth is. Don’t just spew lip service for the masses to eat up.

Sign a 6 to 8 year deal at a cap hit under 7 per. THAT would show a lot of fans you want to be here when you could potentially get more from another team. At least that’s what I think … 

[Radar]

17 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

You want to be here for a long time Tage? Put your money where your mouth is. Don’t just spew lip service for the masses to eat up.

Sign a 6 to 8 year deal at a cap hit under 7 per. THAT would show a lot of fans you want to be here when you could potentially get more from another team. At least that’s what I think … 

Wow, you in bad mood?

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

 

Sign a 6 to 8 year deal at a cap hit under 7 per.

I don’t think it’s out the realm of possibility.

There’s an opportunity here to both make a statement that those who want to be here and perform get rewarded, while it the same time setting a Boston/Tampa situation up in terms of a contract structure where people are getting maybe a little less than they might because the guys up top did.

Tage this summer and Ras next summer will be important.

[mjd1001]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think it’s out the realm of possibility.

There’s an opportunity here to both make a statement that those who want to be here and perform get rewarded, while it the same time setting a Boston/Tampa situation up in terms of a contract structure where people are getting maybe a little less than they might because the guys up top did.

 

You are taking a chance that can reward you big time if it works out, but can set you back with cap issues if it doesn't.  The concept is to pay a player more, earlier than you normally would have to..in exchange for them taking a longer deal that at the end of it they are ok with being 'underpaid'.   They really aren't underpaid because they got more money early...just it has to be the right player to do this. What you do not want is a guy to take more money early, than at the end of the deal grumble and go to the press because he isn't making enough.  The Sabres have cap room the next 2 or 3 years where they can do that..'overpay' some key players now but on long term deals so they aren't up against the cap in 5 years or so, but will they take that chance? and do they have the right kind of players to take those deals?

[JohnC]

31 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

You want to be here for a long time Tage? Put your money where your mouth is. Don’t just spew lip service for the masses to eat up.

Sign a 6 to 8 year deal at a cap hit under 7 per. THAT would show a lot of fans you want to be here when you could potentially get more from another team. At least that’s what I think … 

Looking back, when negotiating with Skinner, the figures that you cited would have been appropriate figures to have signed Skinner at. I'm glad that Skinner is on the team and producing at the level expected under Granato. But his contract is outsized compared to the talent level. However, that overpayment has had little affect in deterring the organization from doing whatever it wants to do to upgrade the roster, at least for the near term.