Curt Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, SDS said: I’m starting to back away from someone’s previous analytics telling the full story about their play. I think Granato has showed so far that maybe the book isn’t always written correctly on every player. Many statistical measures are definitely situational. They don’t tell the whole story. 23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: If the analytics aren't there, I don't care how hard a player works. Likewise a player with good numbers who doesn't work hard I'm not interested in. Also, analytics help you start to identify hard workers. Yup. I think there are times that players placed in far from ideal situations produce poor analytics, but that doesn’t mean that they are absolutely not worth considering and if placed in situations that better suit them, they could produce good analytics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 22 minutes ago, The Ghost of NS said: Maybe Donnie G needs to be deeply analized. This didn't go unnoticed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Curt said: Many statistical measures are definitely situational. They don’t tell the whole story. I think there are times that players placed in far from ideal situations produce poor analytics, but that doesn’t mean that they are absolutely not worth considering and if placed in situations that better suit them, they could produce good analytics. The best example of this was every Sabres Player on the ice with Risto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Weave said: This didn't go unnoticed. I figured you’d appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, Curt said: Many statistical measures are definitely situational. They don’t tell the whole story. I think there are times that players placed in far from ideal situations produce poor analytics, but that doesn’t mean that they are absolutely not worth considering and if placed in situations that better suit them, they could produce good analytics. That's why you compare players on the same team. That's why there's analytics for linemates and opponents faced. Everyone knew Krueger cratered the teams numbers but a good analytics team is also providing context. It's not just generate numbers and show them to ppl. 30 minutes ago, Brawndo said: The best example of this was every Sabres Player on the ice with Risto Risto has been bad forever and a strong piece of evidence in favor of analytics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: That's why you compare players on the same team. That's why there's analytics for linemates and opponents faced. Everyone knew Krueger cratered the teams numbers but a good analytics team is also providing context. It's not just generate numbers and show them to ppl. Risto has been bad forever and a strong piece of evidence in favor of analytics. It was a lame at a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, Brawndo said: It was a lame at a joke I laughed because it was funny and true. Risto for example tanked Samuelsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Speaking of Risto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 No hyperbole, he's killing the Flyers tonight and it's a riot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Love it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 52 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: Random thought, but I wonder if anyone has modeled the analytical mix of players on various teams that go late into the playoffs? I mean sure you want the best statistical top line when it comes to scoring, but what should you be looking for on your 3rd and 4th lines? Do the conventional stats even apply to them or should you be looking for different traits? It is theoretically possible. The LOG line was an ideal 4th line, so start with their stats and work from them... Doohickie had a neat set of charts which showed how bad Sobotka was. I would want the reverse: a guy who attracts others' stats in a positive direction. It is not always possible to find many 4th liners like that, so guys who don't drag down others much is a start (these are the bottom 1/4 of the league, after all). They should have positive possession stats against the bottom half of the league. Regularly having a team-adjusted plus-minus close to zero would be good. They should have a defencively responsible mindset. I would like someone who checks tenaciously. I would like them to be decent checkers against top players league-wide. More will come to me in time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, darksabre said: No hyperbole, he's killing the Flyers tonight and it's a riot You know a player is probably not great if ghe sabres are trying to move him. Especially for such a poor return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Risto going to Risto. And please tell me he didn’t pick #70. Might be one of the worst looking hockey numbers on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 33 minutes ago, miles said: You know a player is probably not great if ghe sabres are trying to move him. Especially for such a poor return The Sabres did not receive a poor return for Risto. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 And yet they won 6 to 3. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Curt said: They really do seem to have made a conscious effort to hire top notch analytics people. However, I would push back against the idea that they plan on building a team based mostly off of analytics (not that you actually said that, though your statement could be interpreted that way). It seems like it is/will be just one of several areas of focus. The GM and HC have spoken repeatedly about getting the right people, team chemistry, hard work, and other such unquantifiable concepts. I feel like they will build with a wide range of factors in mind, not “all in on analytics”. Don’t worry about crusty old Punch. While I am happy to see them use analytics to augment real scouting, They still need to know who they are drafting, their work ethic, and what the past coaches say. They still need to see the players and it has to feel right right. Analytics should just help you narrow a huge pool into a manageable pool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, miles said: You know a player is probably not great if ghe sabres are trying to move him. Especially for such a poor return Poor return? Surprisingly, we got an excellent return for Risto. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripper Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Risto has been bad forever and a strong piece of evidence in favor of analytics. Funny Risto is brought up tonight. I was listening to the Flyers broadcast of the Bruins game. They (homers broadcasters) marveled over his physical play and stated that Risto never learned the proper way to play defense because he played for a lousy team/organization since his career began. Guess they don't follow analytics lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said: Doohickie had a neat set of charts which showed how bad Sobotka was. No, I don't think I ever did. If I did, I got them from someone on this forum. I'm clearly not a fancystats guy. 2 hours ago, miles said: You know a player is probably not great if ghe sabres are trying to move him. Especially for such a poor return Oh I think we can definitively say the Sabres won that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Ripper said: Funny Risto is brought up tonight. I was listening to the Flyers broadcast of the Bruins game. They (homers broadcasters) marveled over his physical play and stated that Risto never learned the proper way to play defense because he played for a lousy team/organization since his career began. Guess they don't follow analytics lol and....... he's so much better...... ......now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 hours ago, The Ghost of NS said: Maybe Donnie G needs to be deeply analized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 57 minutes ago, inkman said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 hours ago, SDS said: I’m starting to back away from someone’s previous analytics telling the full story about their play. I think Granato has showed so far that maybe the book isn’t always written correctly on every player. Granato, and our own @rakish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Brawndo said: Speaking of Risto Lol @ Harrington saying “classic Risto” when all he did was defend him endlessly while he was here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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