Fire Kevyn Adams

[Flashsabre]

This team is making trades for injured players just to get to the cap floor and be compliant with the bare minimum team salary.

Lets not pretend this year was about being competitive and that the Pegulas would be shocked with the results and looking for change. The young kids are developing throughout the organization, Adams plan, worked on and approved by the Pegulas, is right on track for this year.

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

This team is making trades for injured players just to get to the cap floor and be compliant with the bare minimum team salary.

Lets not pretend this year was about being competitive and that the Pegulas would be shocked with the results and looking for change. The young kids are developing throughout the organization, Adams plan, worked on and approved by the Pegulas, is right on track for this year.

I do not believe the Pegulas worked on anything. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by LGR4GM

[woods-racer]

37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I do not believe the Pegulas worked on anything. 

I read that as Adams plan has worked on the Pegulas (as in they bought in). I'm not sure anyone here with the mental capacity to type believes the Pegulas could come up with a solid hockey plan.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I do not believe the Pegulas worked on anything. 

Kim, no. Terry — you are extremely naive.

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I do not believe the Pegulas worked on anything. 

Trust me, the spending bare minimum towards the Cap isn’t an Adams idea. Those marching orders came from the top.

The actual development plans and such are absolutely Adams, Karmanos and the FO but I have no doubt that Pegula is abreast of all decisions. I think he believes Adams and gives him the rope he needs outside of the financial side at the moment.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Flashsabre

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Trust me, the spending bare minimum towards the Cap isn’t an Adams idea. Those marching orders came from the top.

The standard approach in rebuilds is to jettison your experienced and higher cost players for future assets. You build from the ground up around your younger and cheaper players. My point is that Adams was well aware that the accumulated salaries would be dramatically down in the early stages of the rebuild. Eventually, those upside young players would require higher salaries when their contracts come due. My point is that Adams was well aware that salaries would be significantly down when he started executing his rebuild plan. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by JohnC

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Trust me, the spending bare minimum towards the Cap isn’t an Adams idea. Those marching orders came from the top.

Adams isn't spending the bare minimum because Pegula said so but because no high UFAs want to come here because we are a dumpster fire and because Adams doesn't want those guys anyways because that's not how you build. Detroit has a ton of room as well and it isn't because Yzerman is pitching pennies for the owner. 

If Pegula is against spending money it is at odds with them adding several scouts back along with Karmanos, Ventura, and the data scientist. 

[Thorner]

On 12/14/2021 at 2:11 PM, jad1 said:

This is the same nonsense that was knocked around with Krueger last year.  

Don't agree Adams will be fired, but this is a good point

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

This team is making trades for injured players just to get to the cap floor and be compliant with the bare minimum team salary.

Lets not pretend this year was about being competitive and that the Pegulas would be shocked with the results and looking for change. The young kids are developing throughout the organization, Adams plan, worked on and approved by the Pegulas, is right on track for this year.

I agree in general but @jad1makes a good point that losing 17 of 20 was most certainly *not* in the plan - not to say they'd be "shocked" in doing so - I do believe Adams is safe this offseason. But winning more than 3 in 20 would be preferable, even for Adams I'd assume, and that's why games like yesterday are so fun and promising - the outlook does look better the more they win. 

So no, Adams isn't on the hot seat right now, not close, things are going according to plan in the macro, but I agree with those pointing to the 2023 offseason as the earliest point a change *could* happen at GM - if we lose even more than was intended this season and substantial improvement isn't shown next year, I think that could change the equation/test the Pegulas' patience. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Thorny

[Flashsabre]

Next season is the one I’m really interested in regarding the rebuild. We could be looking at Power, Quinn, Krebs, Peterka, Samuelsson all joining the team full time. Most will probably get a cup of coffee at the end of the year but all should be competing for full time spots next season. I would add UPL but he might be cementing himself now.

You will also have Tuch healthy to start the season ( I know he will be back in the new year but to start the season with him healthy will be huge)

That is a lot of important young talent coming in. How does Adams set up the team next year. What dead weight is cut and how does he handle the cap with so many players on ELCs.

I am interested to see what happens with Johnson and Levi. Johnson they kind of need to sign, Levi could play another year in college but is that best for him if he continues to dominate.  This draft will be very big too.

I think next season will tell us if this thing is on the right path or not. Right now I am optimistic that it is.

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Kim, no. Terry — you are extremely naive.

And you are extremely.... whatever the opposite of naive is.

I think there is a difference between KA and all the previous Pegula GMs.  KA came in as a trusted advisor, he seems to know how to talk, perhaps even manipulate (maybe convince is a better word), the Pegulas, and it seems they have bought in to his master plan.  I think the Come To Jesus meeting for the Pegulas was the meeting in Boca just before Krueger was fired.  But it wasn't KA that was coming to Jesus, it was the Pegulas.  I think KA laid out his plan, starting from the firing of Krueger, and basically laid it out for them:  "Either you let me execute my plan or I'm outta here."  It might not have come to a strict ultimatum like that, but I think the meaning was clear to the Pegulas:  The team is being run by Adams now.

And they're okay with that.

 

 

For now.

Edited December 15, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri
Cynical. Cynical is the opposite of naive, right?

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I agree with those pointing to the 2023 offseason as the earliest point a change *could* happen at GM - if we lose even more than was intended this season and substantial improvement isn't shown next year, I think that could change the equation/test the Pegulas' patience. 

I hope KA doesn't feel too comfortable and makes a playoff berth a priority.  I think we can get there, as long as there is decent goaltending.  The rest of the team is coming together.

[Drag0nDan]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:59 PM, jad1 said:

Sure, he seems like a stand up guy. 

But neither of those guys lost the fan base to the extent that the team has this year, and neither of them finished bottom five two years in a row (if the Sabres finish poorly this season).

If the team can't turn it around this year, Adams' plan will have hit Pegula harder in the wallet that planned, with less on-ice success than promised, with greater fan apathy than anticipated.

That might motivate Pegula to turn the organization over to someone with a better plan.

 

 

While i see what you're saying - the losing of the fan base didn't just happen because we hired Adams.  It is more to do with the last 15 years of failures.  As for finishing bottom 5 in the league 2 years in a row - yes thats bad.  However this team also has the lowest payroll in the NHL.  JB and GMTM managed to finish dead last with one of the highest payrolls in the league.  Hell - Housley/JB finished dead last with Eichel, O'reilly, Kane, Okposo, lehner, and reinhart.

As for hitting pegula in the wallet - the team has insanely low season ticket numbers. They also aren't giving away tickets to brokers to then flip for 10 bucks.  While it inflated the attendance numbers it didn't really line the pockets of the organization.  Adams has turned the team over to more of an analytics approach rather than a bunch of road scouts who were terrible at their job (a lot of draft mistakes in the last 10 or so years, and those guys were still getting paychecks).  

The team has been losing money since Pegula bought them, Adams helped lean it out a bit over the last 2 years.  I'm not sure they should totally buy the vision - but you can't expect the team to be better when you trade the #1C #1W and #1D out.  

[Digger]

I finally had the time to catch up on this thread.  I suppose I was skipping this one because I'm not interested in seeing Adams fired.  But the posts and arguments have been an entertaining read.  Well done.

Like most I'm excited about the prospects in the current system developing this year and seeing where they might slot in next season.  I do worry about just giving out spots next season because the JAG's are just holding their spots this season.  But we will see if it works.  I'm optimistic but cautious that it will take time to add that many rookies to a NHL lineup regardless of their talent level.  Stay the course Kevin Adams.  He needs to be safe for 2 more seasons and hopefully by then we are back to some sort of relevance and in the playoffs again.  

[Zamboni]

As much as some might wish it to be true, I just have a hard time believing next season, KA wants 3 or 4 rookies on the team, along with a few that have just a handful of NHL games under their belt, along with guys who only have one year of NHL experience. It’s just toooo much inexperience. Can anyone think of a team who was “semi-successful” with 1/3 to 1/2 the roster filled with that much inexperience at the NHL level?

Next season, I can see KA having two rookies at the most making the team out of camp. And rotating in and out two or three other rookies due to injuries. 
 

Next season, KA needs more experienced vets but with more overall talent and skill than most of the current vets of this season. At least that’s how I see it… 

[Curt]

43 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

As much as some might wish it to be true, I just have a hard time believing next season, KA wants 3 or 4 rookies on the team, along with a few that have just a handful of NHL games under their belt, along with guys who only have one year of NHL experience. It’s just toooo much inexperience. Can anyone think of a team who was “semi-successful” with 1/3 to 1/2 the roster filled with that much inexperience at the NHL level?

Next season, I can see KA having two rookies at the most making the team out of camp. And rotating in and out two or three other rookies due to injuries. 
 

Next season, KA needs more experienced vets but with more overall talent and skill than most of the current vets of this season. At least that’s how I see it… 

2016-17 Toronto Maple Leafs perhaps?

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TOR/2017.html

Rookies:  Matthews, Marner, Zaitsev

2nd year:  Connor Brown, Hyman, Nylander 

 

[dudacek]

Starting next year we will have following between the ages of 20-24 available to start the season:

• Thompson, Bryson, Asplund, Murray, Mittelstadt, Lukkonnen, Jokiharju, Samuelsson, Dahlin, Portillo, Krebs, Cozens, Johnson, Quinn, Levi, Peterka

Coming behind them are:

• 6 1st rounders and 6 2nd rounders between the ages of 17 and 19, including one and very likely 2 top 10 picks.

We don't know what any of them will become, but Adams has bet his job on them becoming something.

 

[Digger]

9 hours ago, Zamboni said:

As much as some might wish it to be true, I just have a hard time believing next season, KA wants 3 or 4 rookies on the team, along with a few that have just a handful of NHL games under their belt, along with guys who only have one year of NHL experience. It’s just toooo much inexperience. Can anyone think of a team who was “semi-successful” with 1/3 to 1/2 the roster filled with that much inexperience at the NHL level?

Next season, I can see KA having two rookies at the most making the team out of camp. And rotating in and out two or three other rookies due to injuries. 
 

Next season, KA needs more experienced vets but with more overall talent and skill than most of the current vets of this season. At least that’s how I see it… 

I don't know but I agree with your points that having too many rookies at one time is pretty hard to manage.  I imagine most of us think that it is Adam's plan because of the number of JAG's on one year contracts or expiring contracts.  I guess we will see how the Rochester guys develop this season and how the end of the year looks (with potential AHL call ups and college signings) to get a glimpse of what Adams is planning for next season.

[Hank]

9 hours ago, Zamboni said:

As much as some might wish it to be true, I just have a hard time believing next season, KA wants 3 or 4 rookies on the team, along with a few that have just a handful of NHL games under their belt, along with guys who only have one year of NHL experience. It’s just toooo much inexperience. Can anyone think of a team who was “semi-successful” with 1/3 to 1/2 the roster filled with that much inexperience at the NHL level?

Next season, I can see KA having two rookies at the most making the team out of camp. And rotating in and out two or three other rookies due to injuries. 
 

Next season, KA needs more experienced vets but with more overall talent and skill than most of the current vets of this season. At least that’s how I see it… 

So you think it should only be Power and who?

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, Zamboni said:

As much as some might wish it to be true, I just have a hard time believing next season, KA wants 3 or 4 rookies on the team, along with a few that have just a handful of NHL games under their belt, along with guys who only have one year of NHL experience. It’s just toooo much inexperience. Can anyone think of a team who was “semi-successful” with 1/3 to 1/2 the roster filled with that much inexperience at the NHL level?

Next season, I can see KA having two rookies at the most making the team out of camp. And rotating in and out two or three other rookies due to injuries. 
 

Next season, KA needs more experienced vets but with more overall talent and skill than most of the current vets of this season. At least that’s how I see it… 

Don't see any way they don't have at least 3 rookies on next year's squad: Power & at least 2 of Quinn, Peterka, & Krebs.  Samuelsson will be up too, but he might get enough games this season to not be a rookie next year.

Still hoping Adams leverages his cap space from next year to bring in 2 quality veteran D-men & a quality goalie (2 should UPL's awakening turnout to just be him hitting the snooze alarm) but don't have a good feel for whether he will or won't.  A big part of the Eulers problems over the past 2 decades, IMHO, was never bringing in a critical mass of vets to teach all the high 1st rounders & other kids how to be pros & how to actually win.  Adams seems to understand that he needs quality leaders, but we'll see what that translates into, if anything.

[LGR4GM]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Don't see any way they don't have at least 3 rookies on next year's squad: Power & at least 2 of Quinn, Peterka, & Krebs.  Samuelsson will be up too, but he might get enough games this season to not be a rookie next year.

Still hoping Adams leverages his cap space from next year to bring in 2 quality veteran D-men & a quality goalie (2 should UPL's awakening turnout to just be him hitting the snooze alarm) but don't have a good feel for whether he will or won't.  A big part of the Eulers problems over the past 2 decades, IMHO, was never bringing in a critical mass of vets to teach all the high 1st rounders & other kids how to be pros & how to actually win.  Adams seems to understand that he needs quality leaders, but we'll see what that translates into, if anything.

Hagg will be gone which allows Samuelsson to come up and that needs happen sooner rather than later this year. I think Samuelsson is better than Hagg already and should be in Buffalo. 

Miller and Butcher will both be gone meaning Owen Power has a spot. If we re-sign Pysyk that means we still have an open spot for a vet defender (7th guy). Out Miller + Butcher, in Power and ??? 

Eakin is gone so that can get filled by any of the 3 Rochester kids. 1 out 1 in.

Jankowski/Hayden at least 1 of them is done here. They probably get replaced by Tuch as early as next week. 

I might keep Hinostroza for 1 more year because he is serviceable and provides competition. 

I would re-sign Murray and Olofsson for sure. 

Looking at it, I think 1 of the 3 young guys starts at least next season in Rochester. I think Samuelsson and Power have an easy path to the roster. I would like to see Bjork go away but I think he will be here next year unless 1 of the trio forces him out (looking at you Peterka). 

[JohnC]

What @Taro Tand @LGR4GMare saying is that three to five young players are going to be added to the roster bumping out lesser talented players. That's how the rebuilding process works. No doubt that having such a large contingent of young players replacing the JAG placeholder players will not necessarily be a smooth transition. But it is a transition that is better made sooner than later. The young players moving up will be more talented than the more veteran players they replace. But because of their lack of experience there will be adjustments that will result in short-term setbacks for the team. One way to mitigate against the adjustment problems is to phase these players onto the roster starting this year. Samuelsson and maybe one of the top three prospects could be added to the roster sometime late in this season so there will less of a transition for some of these players. The rebuilding plan has been laid out; and the rebuilding plan is being executed. It's usually not a smooth and even process. But it is a process that you work through. In general, I'm encouraged by how this rebuilding process is transpiring. 

I don't want to get off topic but as it has been said by many before if you get the goaltending position secured it will promote the enhancement of the development of the young players and the team in general.

[Drag0nDan]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Don't see any way they don't have at least 3 rookies on next year's squad: Power & at least 2 of Quinn, Peterka, & Krebs.  Samuelsson will be up too, but he might get enough games this season to not be a rookie next year.

Still hoping Adams leverages his cap space from next year to bring in 2 quality veteran D-men & a quality goalie (2 should UPL's awakening turnout to just be him hitting the snooze alarm) but don't have a good feel for whether he will or won't.  A big part of the Eulers problems over the past 2 decades, IMHO, was never bringing in a critical mass of vets to teach all the high 1st rounders & other kids how to be pros & how to actually win.  Adams seems to understand that he needs quality leaders, but we'll see what that translates into, if anything.

I'd like to see Krebs brought up sooner rather than later.  Mitts is hurt for likely long term, Eakin stinks, girgensons has moved back and forth on center and wing, and hayden is playing nightly... there's room.

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

What @Taro Tand @LGR4GMare saying is that three to five young players are going to be added to the roster bumping out lesser talented players. That's how the rebuilding process works. No doubt that having such a large contingent of young players replacing the JAG placeholder players will not necessarily be a smooth transition. But it is a transition that is better made sooner than later. The young players moving up will be more talented than the more veteran players they replace. But because of their lack of experience there will be adjustments that will result in short-term setbacks for the team. One way to mitigate against the adjustment problems is to phase these players onto the roster starting this year. Samuelsson and maybe one of the top three prospects could be added to the roster sometime late in this season so there will less of a transition for some of these players. The rebuilding plan has been laid out; and the rebuilding plan is being executed. It's usually not a smooth and even process. But it is a process that you work through. In general, I'm encouraged by how this rebuilding process is transpiring. 

I don't want to get off topic but as it has been said by many before if you get the goaltending position secured it will promote the enhancement of the development of the young players and the team in general.

Quinn has mono so he's going to be out for a bit.  I vote krebs since we need C's anyway.  

[woods-racer]

I say no one gets brought up till they are ready to be brought up. Bringing any player up just because they appear better that what is on the parent club is not good development. 

Let the battles for positions start this spring or sooner because of injuries. Earn it then and earn it again in camp next summer. 

[thewookie1]

Supposedly, according to Friedman, the Sabres asked for Zegras, Drysdale and 2 1sts from Anaheim. Also Anaheim was not for the ADR surgery