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Conner sheary and jimmy vessey ( 2 former sabres who could do nothing with the sabres) have 9 goals combined as of 3/6/21

Eichel, Hall, stahl and skinner have 7 combined goals as of 3/6/21.  Wow!!!!!!!
 

now compare the salaries of sheary and vessey, combined

To that of eichel, hall, stahl and skinner, combined 

you will be sick to your stomach 

Pegulia wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

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On 3/6/2021 at 8:05 PM, Paul said:

Conner sheary and jimmy vessey ( 2 former sabres who could do nothing with the sabres) have 9 goals combined as of 3/6/21

Eichel, Hall, stahl and skinner have 7 combined goals as of 3/6/21.  Wow!!!!!!!
 

now compare the salaries of sheary and vessey, combined

To that of eichel, hall, stahl and skinner, combined 

you will be sick to your stomach 

Pegulia wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome.

And ditto 

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On 3/6/2021 at 8:05 PM, Paul said:

Conner sheary and jimmy vessey ( 2 former sabres who could do nothing with the sabres) have 9 goals combined as of 3/6/21

Eichel, Hall, stahl and skinner have 7 combined goals as of 3/6/21.  Wow!!!!!!!
 

now compare the salaries of sheary and vessey, combined

To that of eichel, hall, stahl and skinner, combined 

you will be sick to your stomach 

Pegulia wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Welcome.

So players who could score goals before RK was their coach, can suddenly score again once RK is no longer their coach?  I’m shocked.

 

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On 3/6/2021 at 8:05 PM, Paul said:

Conner sheary and jimmy vessey ( 2 former sabres who could do nothing with the sabres) have 9 goals combined as of 3/6/21

Eichel, Hall, stahl and skinner have 7 combined goals as of 3/6/21.  Wow!!!!!!!
 

now compare the salaries of sheary and vessey, combined

To that of eichel, hall, stahl and skinner, combined 

you will be sick to your stomach 

Pegulia wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Those are just goals. 

What’s the assists stats looking like?

Oh, Vesey and Sheary have 4 assists and the 4 Sabres have 39. What an excellent comparison! 

Edited by Andrew Amerk
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Vesey's started scoring recently on Jason Spezza's fourth line.  He's played every game for the Leafs, but fans haven't considered him to be any good (until this recent hot streak).  Throughout, apparently the coach and players have liked Vesey, because they could replace him with some decent younger talent if they didn't like him.

I think a lot of the credit goes to Vesey's center now, Spezza, who is performing pretty well on the Leafs.  He's 37 years old and making 700k this year.  5g, 11a.  That's a .64 ppg pace, or 52 pts over a 82 game season.  And he's 58% from the dot.  You'd take that from a 4th line center.  Spezza is performing better on the Leafs than he was before on the Stars.

Eric Staal should be performing a similar role with more ice time at age 36, making about 5 times what Spezza makes.  I think he's a better player than Spezza at this point.  Alas, he's got 3g, 5a.  Staal has gone from a .71 ppg pace, or projected 58 pts over a full season, to a  .35 ppg, 29 pt pace. 

Not only are players who left the team performing better, but players who come to the Sabres team are having huge drop-offs in point production.  You kind of have to look at the Sabres coach, like some of us fans are, and be like, I'm not so sure about this guy, eh? 

 

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1 hour ago, Ice Cold said:

Vesey's started scoring recently on Jason Spezza's fourth line.  He's played every game for the Leafs, but fans haven't considered him to be any good (until this recent hot streak).  Throughout, apparently the coach and players have liked Vesey, because they could replace him with some decent younger talent if they didn't like him.

I think a lot of the credit goes to Vesey's center now, Spezza, who is performing pretty well on the Leafs.  He's 37 years old and making 700k this year.  5g, 11a.  That's a .64 ppg pace, or 52 pts over a 82 game season.  And he's 58% from the dot.  You'd take that from a 4th line center.  Spezza is performing better on the Leafs than he was before on the Stars.

Eric Staal should be performing a similar role with more ice time at age 36, making about 5 times what Spezza makes.  I think he's a better player than Spezza at this point.  Alas, he's got 3g, 5a.  Staal has gone from a .71 ppg pace, or projected 58 pts over a full season, to a  .35 ppg, 29 pt pace. 

Not only are players who left the team performing better, but players who come to the Sabres team are having huge drop-offs in point production.  You kind of have to look at the Sabres coach, like some of us fans are, and be like, I'm not so sure about this guy, eh? 

 

Nice breakdown. Thanks for that. 

Get outta town Ralph🤮

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1 hour ago, Ice Cold said:

Vesey's started scoring recently on Jason Spezza's fourth line.  He's played every game for the Leafs, but fans haven't considered him to be any good (until this recent hot streak).  Throughout, apparently the coach and players have liked Vesey, because they could replace him with some decent younger talent if they didn't like him.

I think a lot of the credit goes to Vesey's center now, Spezza, who is performing pretty well on the Leafs.  He's 37 years old and making 700k this year.  5g, 11a.  That's a .64 ppg pace, or 52 pts over a 82 game season.  And he's 58% from the dot.  You'd take that from a 4th line center.  Spezza is performing better on the Leafs than he was before on the Stars.

Eric Staal should be performing a similar role with more ice time at age 36, making about 5 times what Spezza makes.  I think he's a better player than Spezza at this point.  Alas, he's got 3g, 5a.  Staal has gone from a .71 ppg pace, or projected 58 pts over a full season, to a  .35 ppg, 29 pt pace. 

Not only are players who left the team performing better, but players who come to the Sabres team are having huge drop-offs in point production.  You kind of have to look at the Sabres coach, like some of us fans are, and be like, I'm not so sure about this guy, eh? 

 

I enjoyed this breakdown.

Except Spezza picked the Leafs. Staal didn’t choose the Sabres. He was traded. 

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On 3/6/2021 at 5:05 PM, Paul said:

Conner sheary and jimmy vessey ( 2 former sabres who could do nothing with the sabres) have 9 goals combined as of 3/6/21

Eichel, Hall, stahl and skinner have 7 combined goals as of 3/6/21.  Wow!!!!!!!
 

now compare the salaries of sheary and vessey, combined

To that of eichel, hall, stahl and skinner, combined 

you will be sick to your stomach 

Pegulia wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Sheary and Vesey have tallied more goals but PPG Sheary is flat and Vesey is down compared to last year.  And Vesey’s conversion of goals this year is twice what is was in Buffalo last season.  (Luck?) I have watched the Leafs play about 7 or 8 times this year and I feel the same way about the player today as I did last year.  Still happy he is not a Sabre.  As noted, playing with Spezza on a 4th line can definitely help those scoring statistics.

 And what about Larsson and Rodrigues?  Neither having good seasons with Arizona and Pittsburg respectively.  Both Goals per game and PPG are less with their new clubs vs. last year in Buffalo.  In fact I was surprised to see Evans ATOI.  Seems not worthy of it.

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49 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

 And what about Larsson and Rodrigues?  Neither having good seasons with Arizona and Pittsburg respectively.  Both Goals per game and PPG are less with their new clubs vs. last year in Buffalo.  In fact I was surprised to see Evans ATOI.  Seems not worthy of it.

E-Rod was on Pitt's 4th line I think only because of an injury to someone. Against Philly he skated in on an open net (goalie pulled ) and he actually managed to hit the post. Seriously, wide open, and he hit the post. 

I'm really not sure what any of this means. Fact is only ROR and Lehner have gone on to massive success post Sabres. Evander Kane still ruins every team he gets to 🙂

 

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I think what this means is that it's not the players, it's the system.

The Sabres look like they're skating in mud while everyone else is actually skating on ice.

The system and this "connected" BS appears to mean the forwards have to slow down to let the D catch up so they can attack as 5.  

The speed at which the Sabres play is horrendously slow.

That's the system - that's the coach.

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How about this one, McDavid and Draisaitl have combined for 25 goals and 54 assists and 81 points whereas all 15 Sabre forwards have a combined for 40 goals and 63 assists and 103 points. 

 

Ralph can't be shown the door fast enough, come on Adams do your job! 

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33 minutes ago, BuffalOhio said:

I think what this means is that it's not the players, it's the system.

The Sabres look like they're skating in mud while everyone else is actually skating on ice.

The system and this "connected" BS appears to mean the forwards have to slow down to let the D catch up so they can attack as 5.  

The speed at which the Sabres play is horrendously slow.

That's the system - that's the coach.

The “RK slow down system” is actually what responsible  NHL teams are trying to do to you already.  So between teams being responsible defensively, and RKs system it’s no wonder we don’t score.  We play easy for teams like the Islanders. 

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34 minutes ago, BuffalOhio said:

I think what this means is that it's not the players, it's the system.

The Sabres look like they're skating in mud while everyone else is actually skating on ice.

The system and this "connected" BS appears to mean the forwards have to slow down to let the D catch up so they can attack as 5.  

The speed at which the Sabres play is horrendously slow.

That's the system - that's the coach.

A lot of people, including former players, are all questioning what the system means. My take to build on what you said is, the other guys without the puck; stay above the puck. We are circumvent in our attack which is always taking it to the perimeter, slow and with patience and attempting to get the puck behind the Opponents with none of our guys in a risky position. This of course is more like soccer and we are applying the soccer off side rule to ourselves.

Bottom line: we have no transition game, and never benefit from the defense having to deal with chaos. Of course, trying to score 5-5 all the time is difficult at best. The defense has a much easier job.

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5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The “RK slow down system” is actually what responsible  NHL teams are trying to do to you already.  So between teams being responsible defensively, and RKs system it’s no wonder we don’t score.  We play easy for teams like the Islanders. 

I'm of the belief that modern hockey is a transition game, built on speed of attack when even the slightest advantage can be obtained. The Islanders do this really well. We do none of that and as a result score 1 goal a game 5-5 and if lucky sometimes a pp goal. You need to get goals off turnovers, broken plays, and guys making bad reads etc. with the transition game.

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7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

E-Rod was on Pitt's 4th line I think only because of an injury to someone. Against Philly he skated in on an open net (goalie pulled ) and he actually managed to hit the post. Seriously, wide open, and he hit the post. 

I'm really not sure what any of this means. Fact is only ROR and Lehner have gone on to massive success post Sabres. Evander Kane still ruins every team he gets to 🙂

 

And we replaced him on the wing with never-playoffs skinner 😞 

Edited by Drag0nDan
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Bringing up those 2 players really isn't a point to make...its better to just say the players on the Sabres are playing great.  Vesey and Sheary aren't really playing all that well.

Both of them have 5 goals, but it is in 26 and 21 games for both of them...both have only 2 assists, and both aren't looked at as being key pieces to their team. 

Vesey is scoring 1 goal every 5 games (he did 1 goal in every 6.5 games or so with the Sabres) and is actually putting up less assists than he did here.

Sheary is putting up 1 goal every 4-5 games...and in Buffalo he put up 1 goal per 5.75 games..and he too is putting up a lot less assist when he did here.  

They really aren't doing much, if any better than they did here...and a case can be made with such low assist totals and only a slightly higher goal rate, they are overall doing the same if not a tad worse.

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19 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

I'm of the belief that modern hockey is a transition game, built on speed of attack when even the slightest advantage can be obtained. The Islanders do this really well. We do none of that and as a result score 1 goal a game 5-5 and if lucky sometimes a pp goal. You need to get goals off turnovers, broken plays, and guys making bad reads etc. with the transition game.

Helps when they have an actual goalie tandem.  Our forwards don't buy into the theory that a backcheck can result in offense either.  Loose pucks always find the other team because of how they play in their own end.

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Looking more into this...If you look at how former players are doing with their current teams this year...versus what they did under RK's system here last year...most are playing the same or even worse with their current teams than they did with Sabres last year. I'm not saying RK is great, but THIS is not the argument to make that he is bad, if anything it shows it is more the problem of the players than the coach...because they do just as bad, if not worse, when they leave Buffalo.

Marcus Johansson is producing worse this year than with the Sabres last  year

Vesey and Sheary are putting up less points, and not many more goals, than last year with the Sabres.

Larsson has 3 goals and 1 assist in 22 games this year, less production than with the Sabres last year.

Again, Krueger isn't good for this team, we know that...but if anything this supports the players are just as much at fault because they simply aren't that good. they are not doing much better once they leave his system.

 

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21 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Helps when they have an actual goalie tandem.  Our forwards don't buy into the theory that a backcheck can result in offense either.  Loose pucks always find the other team because of how they play in their own end.

Also helps to play to the strengths of your own players.

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5 hours ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

Also helps to play to the strengths of your own players.

The GM and the coach have to be on the same page with this. You can't have a situation where you bring a coach in and then say "oh ya, by the way, Skinner only plays like this.... so forget all those ideas from your interview, you'll have to please him and his preferred style." 

The coach and the GM presumably have to have the same vision and then with trades and signings make those things fit.

I'd be curious to know what JBot was actually thinking with Kreuger? He clearly wasn't offering any similar game plan to Housley so I assume JBot thought the mental losing culture thing was the main reason but I really don't know. I guess since Housley's vision failed JBot felt a different direction. Whatever the case, we need to decide an identity and then build to that. The only identity I see now is soft and lazy with a whole bunch of quit. 

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21 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The GM and the coach have to be on the same page with this. You can't have a situation where you bring a coach in and then say "oh ya, by the way, Skinner only plays like this.... so forget all those ideas from your interview, you'll have to please him and his preferred style." 

The coach and the GM presumably have to have the same vision and then with trades and signings make those things fit.

I'd be curious to know what JBot was actually thinking with Kreuger? He clearly wasn't offering any similar game plan to Housley so I assume JBot thought the mental losing culture thing was the main reason but I really don't know. I guess since Housley's vision failed JBot felt a different direction. Whatever the case, we need to decide an identity and then build to that. The only identity I see now is soft and lazy with a whole bunch of quit. 

You bring up a good point. Hopefully, the two are in lock step, and so far that doesn't appear to be the case the last few years. I don't know to what extent the Krueger hire had involvement from the Pegula's. Where they in love with him too? Was Jbot? All 3? I do know that early on with the Bills they were bamboozled in their naivete by Rex Ryan. Connecting the dots may not be the right thing, but Ralph seems like a good salesman (con man perhaps) like Rex. He is certainly a different personality than Housley, a motivator supposedly, has a good line people want to believe. The only fix at this point is to bring in a NHL man with experience and credibility. The credibility part gets underrated by some. It becomes important when things aren't going well (like right now) and Ralph has none and the GM is unproven.

Edited by Torpedo Forecheck
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7 hours ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

You bring up a good point. Hopefully, the two are in lock step, and so far that doesn't appear to be the case the last few years. I don't know to what extent the Krueger hire had involvement from the Pegula's. Where they in love with him too? Was Jbot? All 3? I do know that early on with the Bills they were bamboozled in their naivete by Rex Ryan. Connecting the dots may not be the right thing, but Ralph seems like a good salesman (con man perhaps) like Rex. He is certainly a different personality than Housley, a motivator supposedly, has a good line people want to believe. The only fix at this point is to bring in a NHL man with experience and credibility. The credibility part gets underrated by some. It becomes important when things aren't going well (like right now) and Ralph has none and the GM is unproven.

Ralph's a good talker so my guess is he gave a really good interview. Jbot, and again it's just a guess, probably felt some pressure and swung for the fences with an outside the box hire. Maybe the Pegulas said we don't want some tired old has been, this is a new era and we want to be cutting edge (or something similar) and that's what JBot came up with. A gamble, but clearly it has failed. 

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