Jump to content

How does a team with this much offensive talent consistently struggle 5 on 5??


Recommended Posts

We still don't have a second line centre teams have to game plan for, and a team's offence so often flows through the centre of the ice. 

That's pretty much all I've got - and when Jack isn't scoring at ES (I dunno why he's not), I don't think there needs to be much more to it. We have no centres scoring at ES. Especially considering we don't really have any scoring talent in the bottom 6. 

Even with Staal not being what we've hoped so far, I still think we should be scoring more considering we have 5 legit top 6 players. After all the so-called offseason improvement we talked about, it's a little surprising we are still sitting at "Jack scores 5 on 5 or no one does". 

I really thought Hall would be manufacturing more. Adams best move this offseason could not-unrealistically be declining to go term on Hall.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how much we can attribute to Krueger's system, but it seems likely to me a coach with a good system could get more out of this roster. It wouldn't be surprising to me that a guy who hasn't been coaching NHL hockey isn't a good NHL hockey coach. 

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We still don't have a second line centre teams have to game plan for, and a team's offence so often flows through the centre of the ice. 

That's pretty much all I've got - and when Jack isn't scoring at ES (I dunno why he's not), I don't think there needs to be much more to it. We have no centres scoring at ES. Especially considering we don't really have any scoring talent in the bottom 6. 

Even with Staal not being what we've hoped so far, I still think we should be scoring more considering we have 5 legit top 6 players. After all the so-called offseason improvement we talked about, it's a little surprising we are still sitting at "Jack scores 5 on 5 or no one does". 

I really thought Hall would be manufacturing more. Adams best move this offseason could not-unrealistically be declining to go term on Hall.

The problem is not only a lack of a second line Center, our first line Center savior has all but checked out and seems to be waiting for management and ownership to send him off to a city where he will thrive..

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the first part is simple. They don't battle for the puck, they don't win puck battles. They don't compete plain and simple. In a wide open game or if they have a man advantage they're not horrible, but give them any kind of defense they have to fight through and they quit and many become passengers. 

So the second part is trickier, why is that? The coaching? Maybe, but it's a thing that's been here through many coaches. The players? maybe. We get some new ones every year and sometimes they seem okay for a while but in the end it's the same. Most of them quit and coast like they caught the disease. Lack of leadership? Definitely, but that shouldn't be enough by itself should it? 

In the end, whatever the reason, they never seem to care and they all too often lack effort. It's a broken culture, and it has been since we got these owners. So I'm going to say it's that. 

  • Like (+1) 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Losing mentality. they have it and haven't seemed to put together a run to stop it. I dont know how many they need to have but its not good right now. The covid breakup didn't help either

 

Also some teams are just losers.  Look at the nfl jets. They are horrible year in and year out. I was a jets fan and finally just stopped watching all together. 

 

Edited by miles
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

I haven't thought that in the past about the Sabres when I've heard that.

I believe it to be true now.

It seems like they just don't care.

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am putting at least some of this on the coaching philosophy.  I also think some of this is are the long layoffs.

First, we have coaching.  Remember that Ralph Krueger wants players to play "above the puck"; i.e., be between the puck and their own goal.

https://www.radio.com/wgr550/articles/news/its-about-playing-within-our-principles-and-structure

He benched Skinner for weeks because his instincts are to play sometimes below the puck.  If they are playing entirely above the puck, then you miss out on chances down low.  That is often more passive mindset, so I think they are missing out on some chances down low.  And this is bad for Skinner in particular because he tends to be more aggressive in the offencive zone, which means he would get caught below the puck on a break-out.

Second, we have the long layoffs.  After two weeks, this team was not in game shape -- they faded badly as the time went on.  Moreover, because they could not even practise, they were often disorganised, unaware, or panicky.  The layoffs also exacerbated the problems that they still have little chemistry in the offencive lines and their defence pairings are largely ineffective and unstable.  The goaltending sometimes being awful does not help.  And then all of these problems on the back end mean that they can't effectively move up ice, can't get possession, have to be extra conservative, and are just playing, to quote Foghorn Leghorn, as sharp as a bowling ball.

I am sure there are other things, but these are my big complaints.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

How?

1 The captain is too cool to try.

2 Shaky goaltending kills momentum.

3 A top F has been buried on the 4th line with no support

4 Coaches would rather trot out never-beens like Eakin, Irwin, and washed up guys like Slo-poso than play younger players with some potential upside like Mitts, Borgen, Routs, etc.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

The problem is not only a lack of a second line Center, our first line Center savior has all but checked out and seems to be waiting for management and ownership to send him off to a city where he will thrive..

 

This will be realized in the next 12-18 months.  You'll hear people in the media around here say "you don't trade a talent like that and improve plus he will thrive elsewhere."  Yea?  And?  He isn't thriving here.  And if he no longer believes anything can be won here what good is he?  I clearly don't see a roster rallying around the play of the Captain oh going on 4 years now.  

As I said a few weeks ago.  If I'm GM, literally every single player is on the table.  

Except Risto.  He's playing the game we've been waiting for him to play for years.  That's hard to come by in this league of "everyone plays the same dull system bc the players know their analytics have to matter at contract time."  Its a joke.  

 

This team is soft.  Fragile.  The loser runs deep thru the core.  And that includes Hall and Skinner.  I don't know why Staal is here.  I like Cozens a lot tho.  

Unfortunately tough to blow it up in the middle of the pandemic era.  No minors to truly scout.  Possibly no draft? 

Disaster.  The only thing that's going to continue longer then Covid will be this franchise's cluelessness.  

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Tied for the lowest Expected Goals for.  Second last in Scoring Chances and second last in High Danger Chances.  Although the last two are obviously impacted by the hiatus, still bottom 7 when adjusted for games played. Said by others, unwilling (or instructed) not to go and stay in front of the net.  I would to see a Rick Vaive type player on this squad. 

  • Thanks (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't matter anymore anyway.  I hate to say it but this season is now pretty much over unless we somehow win 5 in a row in regulation soon.  

Our goaltending is weak. No surprise.  KA instead of fixing a known problem added a 3rd top 6 LW for 8 mill who can't score.

RK offense system and line combo sucks plain and simple.  This is the team that simply can't convert chances.  He also is in the process of ruining Dahlin.  Yeah!  

I KA wants to try to salvage the season he needs to force RK to play the kids with O upside like Mittelstadt and Cozens.  He also needs to add more physical presense to the lineup on D.  It might also be nice to have a heart to heart to RK about why the 5 on 5 offense sucks.  If they're honest with themselves they'll notice a lack of screens. poor shot selection, to many passes near the net and a lack of genuine O talent in the bottom 6.  I'd also suggest making sure that each line was a physical forward, a scorer and a playmaker.  It would also help if our top paid forwards earning 27 mill would have more then 3 goals total.

They of course won't do any of the above.  Another wasted season in the books.

Shooting %

Jack - Career 10.7, last season 15.9, this season 5.1; Shots taken 39

Hall - Career 10.3, last season 6.9, MVP season 14, this season 3.4; Shots taken 29

Skinner - Career 10.8, last season 7.7, 40 goal year 14.9, this season O;  Shots taken 24

Olofsson - Last year 15.7, this season 13.3; shots taken 30

Reinhart - Career 12.8, last season 15.3, this season 15.8; shots taken 19

These are our 5 top forward shooters.  Staal is 6th with 18 (16.7%)

Skinner and Hall look like continuations of trends that began last year.  Olofsson and Reinhart need to shoot more.  I didn't look at shot location or HDC but the shots from Skinner last night looked like they were all from the outside.  Dumb.  This guy needs to be a forechecker and net front presence, not playing from the blue line.  

 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thanks (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Strategy.

RK has them playing defensive hockey which seems to favor 2-3 high-quality chances per game over putting the puck on the net and taking chances.

It’s horrible to watch and it isn’t working.  And worse, it announces to his team that he lacks confidence in them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a post of mine in one of these threads from a ways back where I pointed to organizational culture, team culture.

I still hold firm to that to this day. Some are pointing out leadership failures. I concur. The lack of true accountability is abundantly clear.

I now relate my judgement of the Sabres, as a whole and individuals within the organization akin to Spencer Tracey as Judge Hayward in the film "Judgement at Nuremberg".

In It, Tracey has a fantastic scene as he reads the decision of the Court. Well, Sabres faithful, hell, general hockey fans everywhere, are now reading the decision of the Court on the Sabres.

The documentation of evidence is overwhelming, with more than 10 seasons of data. Who can forget, players neutered due to aggressive play style, a mockery made of management and coaching selections, the extermination of compete level, desire and "love of the game".

That, in a nutshell, is organizational culture. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

The problem is not only a lack of a second line Center, our first line Center savior has all but checked out and seems to be waiting for management and ownership to send him off to a city where he will thrive..

I feel like he's either trying to be like lemieux and make some insane play and turn it over.  Or he's just waiting for something to develop and isn't doing the little things.  

Last night looked like he was playing on a line with 0 chemistry.  No one was in the right place.  He looks in front, nobody home and turnover.  Cycle it around, nobody home and turnover.  Just no sustained pressure in 5x5.  

The entire team can't pass, and having guys like irwin in there makes it even worse.  

47 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

Strategy.

RK has them playing defensive hockey which seems to favor 2-3 high-quality chances per game over putting the puck on the net and taking chances.

It’s horrible to watch and it isn’t working.  And worse, it announces to his team that he lacks confidence in them.

Open it up and we'll see how bad the goaltending really is though.  It's a catch-22

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Tied for the lowest Expected Goals for.  Second last in Scoring Chances and second last in High Danger Chances.  Although the last two are obviously impacted by the hiatus, still bottom 7 when adjusted for games played. Said by others, unwilling (or instructed) not to go and stay in front of the net.  I would to see a Rick Vaive type player on this squad. 

 

The crazy part was through 8 games they were among the best in the NHL at all of them

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drag0nDan said:

Open it up and we'll see how bad the goaltending really is though.  It's a catch-22

Yeah they'd give up some goals.  But they'd put pressure on the other team and actually be watchable.  And it would at least play to their strengths instead of covering up their weakness (poorly I might add).  They've got a generational talent at "offensive defenseman."  They've got Eichel in his prime.  They went out and spent $8M on a 1-year rental of Taylor Hall.  They chose not to get help at goaltending.  I didn't make these decisions, they did.  Open up the damn offense.  This is an absolute disgrace.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

Yeah they'd give up some goals.  But they'd put pressure on the other team and actually be watchable.  And it would at least play to their strengths instead of covering up their weakness (poorly I might add).  They've got a generational talent at "offensive defenseman."  They've got Eichel in his prime.  They went out and spent $8M on a 1-year rental of Taylor Hall.  They chose not to get help at goaltending.  I didn't make these decisions, they did.  Open up the damn offense.  This is an absolute disgrace.

Honestly i thought dahlin looked a lot better last night.  On the other hand i thought eichel looked considerably worse.  

I can't say open it up offensively when i have irwin/davidson/borgen playing minutes.  I also think Miller is not very good.  His inconsistencies tend to kill offensive chances.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

has been since we got these owners

What is it about the Sabres that the Pegulas are doing so wrong, but doing so right with the Bills?  I can't figure that out.

My only thought is that they (eventually) hit on the right coach and GM with the Bills, but have yet to do so with the Sabres.  I can only hope that if KA and RK are not the right people, they find them soon.  The Sabres will not improve until we hit on those two positions.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Honestly i thought dahlin looked a lot better last night.  On the other hand i thought eichel looked considerably worse.  

I can't say open it up offensively when i have irwin/davidson/borgen playing minutes.  I also think Miller is not very good.  His inconsistencies tend to kill offensive chances.  

It is amazing what happens when Dahlin stops trying to play their shutdown system and just ignores it altogether. 

15 hours ago, RangerDave said:

What is it about the Sabres that the Pegulas are doing so wrong, but doing so right with the Bills?  I can't figure that out.

My only thought is that they (eventually) hit on the right coach and GM with the Bills, but have yet to do so with the Sabres.  I can only hope that if KA and RK are not the right people, they find them soon.  The Sabres will not improve until we hit on those two positions.

Nothing. The Pegulas got lucky in McD and Bean as hires and also got lucky that Terry's infatuation with Josh Allen worked out. 

As someone noted somewhere else, Josh Allen is an extrovert and a leader, Jack Eichel isn't. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...