Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Eleven

Ryan Stimson's "new" power play approach

Recommended Posts

Stimson wrote an interesting article proposing that power plays be managed from behind the net.  It kind of reminded me of how the Sabres used to use Briere:

 

https://thecoachessite.com/behind-net-powerplay-formation-driven-analytics/?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=Stimson+May+2018&utm_term=Hockey+Coach&utm_content=Stimson+May+2018

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Stimson wrote an interesting article proposing that power plays be managed from behind the net.  It kind of reminded me of how the Sabres used to use Briere:

 

https://thecoachessite.com/behind-net-powerplay-formation-driven-analytics/?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=Stimson+May+2018&utm_term=Hockey+Coach&utm_content=Stimson+May+2018

 

There was talk about this before, maybe using Reinhart back there. I don't know if they ever tried it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so new...  the behind the net was a key point of his Tape to Space book a few years back, along with 4F 1D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, New Scotland (NS) said:

Who?

Ryan Stimson.  He's into analytics.  He wrote a book on hockey tactics, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Tape-Space-Redefining-Modern-Tactics/dp/1790480493

The last section of the book is about his season with Perinton Youth hockey.  His writings are about my son's hockey team as he was an assistant coach.  He's a good guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Ryan Stimson.  He's into analytics.  He wrote a book on hockey tactics, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Tape-Space-Redefining-Modern-Tactics/dp/1790480493

The last section of the book is about his season with Perinton Youth hockey.  His writings are about my son's hockey team as he was an assistant coach.  He's a good guy.

Thanks.

So, what is this guy?  Is he the new PP slapper coach for the Sabres?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Thanks.

So, what is this guy?  Is he the new PP slapper coach for the Sabres?

He's nothing more than an Internet commentary guy with some data analytics experience.  Went to RIT.  I presume looking to make his way into sports management of some kind in some way.. if he's not already performing some level of data gathering, etc.  I haven't talked to him directly in a few years.

  • Thanks (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Wouldn't that make the one-timer harder to execute? The puck direction would hamper the effectiveness of it, taking some speed off the shot.

The thing about it is that it is extremely hard for a goalie to keep view of and track a puck coming from behind them.  Even more difficult than pucks traveling cross ice.

Also, isn’t it easier for a shooter to time a puck coming straight at the open face of the stick blade instead of coming across from the other side of the ice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Curt said:

The thing about it is that it is extremely hard for a goalie to keep view of and track a puck coming from behind them.  Even more difficult than pucks traveling cross ice.

Also, isn’t it easier for a shooter to time a puck coming straight at the open face of the stick blade instead of coming across from the other side of the ice?

I agree and always liked the behind the idea, it's more exciting most often. I'm thinking more about our players like Jack/VO setting up for that one-timer.

The puck would be generating force in the opposite direction, I would believe that would take some speed off the shot...maybe not significantly.

I actually like the behind the net option and it seems more creative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have a good passer, with good vision, smarts, & an ability to win board battles it can work.  Reinhart pretty much fits that bill.  An added bonus is any passes he directs towards Eichel will be coming from his forehand.  

Would the coaching staff returning from last year be willing to try something different than working the PP always through Eichel?  There in lies the rub.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MattPie said:

There was talk about this before, maybe using Reinhart back there. I don't know if they ever tried it.

I'm pretty sure when Bob Woods was PP coach, we did. I remember hearing on TSN he was pretty much the only coach doing it on the PP and Minnesota retained the strategy when he went there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Not so new...  the behind the net was a key point of his Tape to Space book a few years back, along with 4F 1D.

That's why "new" is in quotes in the title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wayne Gretzky was famous for operating from behind the net.  He's also the NHL's all-time assists leader by a wide margin.  Not sure how this necessarily translates to the Sabres or the PP (nobody in the league currently or on the Sabres - or potentially ever - is/was as talented as the Great One), but this theory still made me think of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It can work - sort of like a triangle offense, always 2 places to go.  I just wonder if teams will take away that pass to the slot first leaving you with D shots from the circle. 

Without a real goal scoring d-man i'm not sure this is super plausible for buffalo.  It also takes the shots from oloffson and eichel on cross ice passes and tries to create opportunities close to the net, where i'm not sure buffalo even has a guy that thrives.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The times that Reinhart operated below the net this past season saw good results. If the cross ice pass isn't open, get behind the net and let those 2 guys creep into the circles for one timers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The times that Reinhart operated below the net this past season saw good results. If the cross ice pass isn't open, get behind the net and let those 2 guys creep into the circles for one timers. 

Thats my thought... also the 2nd line PP was a gaping hole anyway so that could probably use somethin different.  Who's camping in front for slot shots though?  Okposo maybe? TBD?

Edited by Drag0nDan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Thats my thought... also the 2nd line PP was a gaping hole anyway so that could probably use somethin different.  Who's camping in front for slot shots though?  Okposo maybe? TBD?

Cozens. At 6'3" roughly 192 (I am guessing here because he said he has added 6lbs of muscle) that should be pretty durable in front of the net. 

Edited by LGR4GM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Methinks they will start the season trying to recapture the double barreled magic of Eichel and Olofsson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2020 at 1:16 PM, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I agree and always liked the behind the idea, it's more exciting most often. I'm thinking more about our players like Jack/VO setting up for that one-timer.

The puck would be generating force in the opposite direction, I would believe that would take some speed off the shot...maybe not significantly.

I actually like the behind the net option and it seems more creative.

I’d have to surmise the speed of the shot would not be negatively affected - maybe even the opposite. 
 

It’s not far off from a pitchers fastball flying off a baseball bat into the opposite direction. Would a baseball travel further if the ball was coming from the side of the batter?

Edited by Andrew Amerk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I’d have to surmise the speed of the shot would not be negatively affected - maybe even the opposite. 
 

It’s not far off from a pitchers fastball flying off a baseball bat into the opposite direction. Would a baseball travel further if the ball was coming from the side of the batter?

In baseball and golf compression of the bat, club, and ball all matter. In hockey it would be flex of the stick so I would guess that a puck coming toward you would slightly increase the flex of the stick and improve the players load on the shot. Pucks flex a little too, they are rubber after all, even if it's frozen.

Given that players are more likely to take quick shots on plays like that I'd guess that it makes a snapper a little harder.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I’d have to surmise the speed of the shot would not be negatively affected - maybe even the opposite. 
 

It’s not far off from a pitchers fastball flying off a baseball bat into the opposite direction. Would a baseball travel further if the ball was coming from the side of the batter?

I was looking at it more like...would the baseball go farther if pitched slower.

I really didn't think it would matter much and was more of the mindset that it would take away that one-timer that we rely on too much. I'm definitely up for some creativity. Sometimes I'd like to see what the players would do if the coach let be more instinctive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if the behind the net playmaker becomes your go to PP other teams will be able to find ways to defend it.

In my opinion it would be more effective as one weapon in an arsenal of two or three options. If you have possession and you change the play on the fly, you may catch the opposition off guard. 
 

Analytics may determine which matchups are better for which plays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I was looking at it more like...would the baseball go farther if pitched slower.

I really didn't think it would matter much and was more of the mindset that it would take away that one-timer that we rely on too much. I'm definitely up for some creativity. Sometimes I'd like to see what the players would do if the coach let be more instinctive.

Idk. Batters seem to torch a slow pitch being tossed in a home run derby just about the same as a hanging fastball in a game. 
 

Also, my speculation is that the shot speed is going to be the same whether the puck is coming straight at a stick, or from the side, if point of release is identical - the flex/torque would still be originating from the same point. If Al Iafrate can shoot a motionless puck 104mph, I don’t think that speed is increasing with a moving puck coming at his stick. I could be wrong, just making guesses. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...