COVID-19

[spndnchz]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

I'll bite.  I don't see strange bedfellows at all.  I see a cross section of the working class.  The people that Democrats left behind and anchored Trump's support.

Annnnnd... off to the politics club we go.

You good 

[Ogre]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

A question for the estimable new poet laureate of SabreSpace @Ogre.

I might be able to return to work if my employer agrees to let me use an N95 respirator. A co-worker was given one but was not fitted or test-fitted, whatever the correct term is. He just put it on. So I suspect it will be the same for me.

My question is how much better is an unfitted N95 respirator than a regular old surgical mask? I won't be involved in direct care of Covid-19 patients but will have the random exposure possibility everyone is facing when they can't socially distance.

I'll hang up and listen.

With a surgical mask you are protecting others. With N95 you’re protecting yourself. Even if it isn’t the best fitting mask. The idea of the fit test is to have you talking and doing stuff while they apply the indicator. If you smell it then unfiltered air got into your mask. You’re going to get a little leakage just due to the variety of face shapes. I for example have a smaller face but a medium is no good for me because my nose is too big. Just be conscience of that seal to your face and try not to do things that disturb it. Talking, chewing, etc.

[Neo]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

I'll bite.  I don't see strange bedfellows at all.  I see a cross section of the working class.  The people that Democrats left behind and anchored Trump's support.

Annnnnd... off to the politics club we go.

Just to be respectful to the groups I named, strange refers not to either one of them.  Strange refers to their common cause assembly.  Electricians, bankers, IT Techs, landscapers, engineers, brick layers, sovereign citizens, libertarians ...

The thoughts are coming ...

1). Tough time to be a governor.  The Governor of New York has been smart and competent, for the most part.  No shock there.  His theory of government isn’t mine, but he can govern.  He’s asking for Federal money.  He’s really asking for money from 49 other states.  How would that sound bite play?   

2). I’d get PPP, Part Deux, announced before Monday.  I’ll let everyone imagine the small business owners’ phone calls to lenders on Thursday when the money ran out.  They’ve been closed for a month.  They don’t have 90 days cash.  You can argue they should.  I’d argue they shouldn’t.  We’d both be wasting time.  They don’t.  These are the firm’s that employ 95% of us.  Tick tock, tick tock.

3). When this is in the rear view mirror, the list of re-prioritized institutions, projects, roles, delivery and funding will be longer than the Nile.    You will see America 2.0, if only to deal with the hole creates by resources committed.  I want to read more of Mark Cuban’s vision.  I won’t say he was the first with the idea, or that he coined the term, but he is Mark Cuban.

4). The bill.  Little we’re doing is investment.  This is current period spending so that there IS a subsequent period.   Think of PPP as a colossal family medical bill.   $350 thousand to keep Papa alive.   It’s good that he is alive, and he can continue to work after he’s well, but he owes someone $350 thousand.  He is us.  When he pays it, it’s with dollars that could’ve bought food and cars and homes and dinners out and cable tv.  There’s no transfer from this guy to that.   It’s real, and it’s gone.

5).  Bar stool I’d love to sit on:  One between our President, our Fed Chairman and Jamie Diamond.  I’d ask ...  “Could we charge the Chinese for the pandemic by defaulting on the US debt THEY hold, not defaulting on our other debt, and retain our status as the world’s safe haven for funds and the dollar as the global currency?”    The answer, of course, is “no”.  You are a defaulter if you default.  Creditors don’t give you style points for summoning moral justifications  (a consideration for another kind of debt, by the way, but I’ll not digress).  This is a fever dream, but I like to imagine Xi in the same bar, over by the Juke Box, straining to hear us.  Entanglements.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Neo

[Huckleberry]

4 hours ago, Neo said:

Just to be respectful to the groups I named, strange refers not to either one of them.  Strange refers to their common cause assembly.  Electricians, bankers, IT Techs, landscapers, engineers, brick layers, sovereign citizens, libertarians ...

The thoughts are coming ...

1). Tough time to be a governor.  The Governor of New York has been smart and competent, for the most part.  No shock there.  His theory of government isn’t mine, but he can govern.  He’s asking for Federal money.  He’s really asking for money from 49 other states.  How would that sound bite play?   

2). I’d get PPP, Part Deux, announced before Monday.  I’ll let everyone imagine the small business owners’ phone calls to lenders on Thursday when the money ran out.  They’ve been closed for a month.  They don’t have 90 days cash.  You can argue they should.  I’d argue they shouldn’t.  We’d both be wasting time.  They don’t.  These are the firm’s that employ 95% of us.  Tick tock, tick tock.

3). When this is in the rear view mirror, the list of re-prioritized institutions, projects, roles, delivery and funding will be longer than the Nile.    You will see America 2.0, if only to deal with the hole creates by resources committed.  I want to read more of Mark Cuban’s vision.  I won’t say he was the first with the idea, or that he coined the term, but he is Mark Cuban.

4). The bill.  Little we’re doing is investment.  This is current period spending so that there IS a subsequent period.   Think of PPP as a colossal family medical bill.   $350 thousand to keep Papa alive.   It’s good that he is alive, and he can continue to work after he’s well, but he owes someone $350 thousand.  He is us.  When he pays it, it’s with dollars that could’ve bought food and cars and homes and dinners out and cable tv.  There’s no transfer from this guy to that.   It’s real, and it’s gone.

5).  Bar stool I’d love to sit on:  One between our President, our Fed Chairman and Jamie Diamond.  I’d ask ...  “Could we charge the Chinese for the pandemic by defaulting on the US debt THEY hold, not defaulting on our other debt, and retain our status as the world’s safe haven for funds and the dollar as the global currency?”    The answer, of course, is “no”.  You are a defaulter if you default.  Creditors don’t give you style points for summoning moral justifications  (a consideration for another kind of debt, by the way, but I’ll not digress).  This is a fever dream, but I like to imagine Xi in the same bar, over by the Juke Box, straining to hear us.  Entanglements.

 

I bet it would probably go the same way Italy and Spain asking for help from rest of EU two weeks ago with no one know how bad it will get in their own country.  A governor sending out help to other states but causing his own state to lack funds or manpower to battle this is committing political suicide.

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Neo said:

1). Tough time to be a governor.  The Governor of New York has been smart and competent, for the most part.  No shock there.  His theory of government isn’t mine, but he can govern.  He’s asking for Federal money.  He’s really asking for money from 49 other states.  How would that sound bite play?   

It plays well.  New York, and other states wherein citizens responsibly pay taxes, constantly subsidize states with no income tax, because those states are bigger drains on federal funds.  Especially when natural disasters hit and, as usual, they are unprepared.  I have no problem getting some of our own back.  I do have a problem with Texas and Florida constantly sucking us dry.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Eleven

[Neo]

9 hours ago, Eleven said:

It plays well.  New York, and other states wherein citizens responsibly pay taxes, constantly subsidize states with no income tax, because those states are bigger drains on federal funds.  Especially when natural disasters hit and, as usual, they are unprepared.  I have no problem getting some of our own back.  I do have a problem with Texas and Florida constantly sucking us dry.

Well, I was pointing out the actual source, not suggesting an actual phone call.  In other words, there is no such thing as a federal dollar.  I twitch when politicians of any stripe refer to federal dollars.   Federal dollars live in my wallet.   My only point, in fact.

I know the proposed recipient has no trouble with the ask.  The challenge is always the donor.  Florida doesn’t share your conclusion.  Fun three day weekend .. walk into working class taverns from Texas to Florida to North Carolina to Tennessee to Alabama Mississippi Louisiana and suggest they “owe” New York some money.  That’d be fun to watch.  I’d leave the car with its motor runnin’ in the parking lot.

I share your hurricane point.  I’ve never understood why the US subsidizes stupid building.  Well, I know why they do ... 

I also think this is a pandemic and not a rainy day.  I am “pro” a lot of “federal stuff” i’m not normally inclined to support.  Print, borrow, spend.

Imagine NYC taxing Buffalo for COVID19.  That’s kind of what we’re talking about, right?   Or Erie, PA?  I listened to the complaints for years about upstate dollars going to downstate projects.  Hell, there was a mini riot when NYC wanted hospital beds.

Maybe someone knows ...  what are the balance of payments between feds and states?  Is there a state ranking?  I’ll look.  Which states are net importers and exporters of federal funds ?

Edited April 19, 2020 by Neo

[Neo]

https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-taxes-federal-services-difference-by-state-2019-1#rhode-island-39

I can’t speak for the math or accuracy.  Great article with a reasonable approach that supports Eleven’s hunch.   NY pays $1,300 per person TO the Feds MORE than they get FROM the Feds.  Floridians RECEIVE $3,000 more than they pay.

Not sure how social security and medicare / medicaid weigh in.  There is always timing for vehicles like this.  For instance, a retiree paid TO Washington when she lived and worked up north, and is now getting BACK while she retires and lives down south.  I have no clue how you capture that.

In any event, even armed with this data, I’d leave the motor runnin’.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Neo

[Zamboni]

Latest info and interactive map ...

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
 

Erie county info ... 

http://erieny.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/dd7f1c0c352e4192ab162a1dfadc58e1

 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-taxes-federal-services-difference-by-state-2019-1#rhode-island-39

I can’t speak for the math or accuracy.  Great article with a reasonable approach that supports Eleven’s hunch.   NY pays $1,300 per person TO the Feds MORE than they get FROM the Feds.  Floridians RECEIVE $3,000 more than they pay.

Not sure how social security and medicare / medicaid weigh in.  There is always timing for vehicles like this.  For instance, a retiree paid TO Washington when she lived up north, and is now getting BACK while she lives down south.  I have no clue how you capture that.

In any event, even armed with this data, I’d leave the motor runnin’.

This is correct. In general, blue states make money for the red states to use.  The late Pat Moynahan used to point this out whenever red state Senators would talk about dismantling federal programs.

[Neo]

4 hours ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

This is correct. In general, blue states make money for the red states to use.  The late Pat Moynahan used to point this out whenever red state Senators would talk about dismantling federal programs.

Well, now.   I feel better every minute!  

I don’t think one “pays taxes responsibly”.  One pays them statutorily.   Tax revenue is used responsibly, or not.   Paying responsibly is one of those phrases, like fair share, used to virtue signal when confiscating.  “Now Doris, he says we’re not payin’ responsibly!  Is that right?  Well, bless his heart ....”. Perhaps this will encourage my blue friends to recognize the irresponsibility of it all!  

Looks like 11 states are net payers, and 39 net recipients.  I’m still not sure how “age and location” dynamic come into play.   Nor am I aware of how a progressive tax schedule affects the calculation.  You know, we might be so poor here in Florida that our status as a net recipient is a progressive’s dream.  Must be, right?  We tax the rich and transfer funds to the needy.  “Hey, rich New York.  No state NEEDS that much money.  Pay your fair share.  We have programs for the poor in Florida.  Privileged bastards.”  I’ve seen that construct, before.  “Governor, I can’t believe you’re raising taxes on the poorest”!

That’s really the point, isn’t it?   I’m making it in the longest way.   Just like there are no federal dollars, there are no states that are net recipients or payers.  Daniel Patrick was one smart dude, but I’ve had giggled at him.   People are payers or recipients.  More recipients live in some zip codes than others.   If you see “this state owes that state”, you miss the picture entirely.

I am a Buffalo guy, though.  I will begin to socialize the concept that we in the south need to pay more in recognition of New York’s largesse.   While I’m at it, I’m also going to point out that some individuals paying less than me begin to pay more.  I mean, that’s the logic, right?  Fair share and responsible, and all, right?  I’ll explain that I pay more than I get.  I’m not sure what traction I’ll get, but I’m on it.   This net payer / recipient thing makes my day!

Edited April 19, 2020 by Neo

[Weave]

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the bill arrives at a restaurant.

[Neo]

27 minutes ago, Weave said:

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the bill arrives at a restaurant.

If it were you, dining with me, no bill would arrive at the table.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

If it were you, dining with me, no bill would arrive at the table.

Connections!  Privilege! Free meals!

[Neo]

Ha!

[JujuFish]

11 hours ago, Eleven said:

It plays well.  New York, and other states wherein citizens responsibly pay taxes, constantly subsidize states with no income tax,

New Hampshire, where I live, has no state income tax and yet is among states subsidizing others, as you put it.

[PASabreFan]

I believe I heard the president say yesterday that when "federal" help went to NY, he didn't discuss any repayment with the governor, because that wouldn't be right during an emergency, but once it's all over, there will have to be discussions of repayment.

Someone who's smarter than I am will have to explain that to me. Did Florida ever repay Washington for hurricane response funding?

Edited April 19, 2020 by PASabreFan

[LTS]

10 hours ago, Neo said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/federal-taxes-federal-services-difference-by-state-2019-1#rhode-island-39

I can’t speak for the math or accuracy.  Great article with a reasonable approach that supports Eleven’s hunch.   NY pays $1,300 per person TO the Feds MORE than they get FROM the Feds.  Floridians RECEIVE $3,000 more than they pay.

Not sure how social security and medicare / medicaid weigh in.  There is always timing for vehicles like this.  For instance, a retiree paid TO Washington when she lived and worked up north, and is now getting BACK while she retires and lives down south.  I have no clue how you capture that.

In any event, even armed with this data, I’d leave the motor runnin’.

Internal accounting can be an ugly construct.  As you indicate, those who paid into the system while in NY and then collect later in life while in Florida are really doing nothing more than getting back the share they paid in (in theory).  Whereas those who have lived in Florida all their life are not.  Except, what if they are disproportionately spending elsewhere? After all, money ends up in the government pockets in many ways.

Analyzing one piece of the pie, or even 4 pieces of the pie is dangerous when there are thousands of pieces and the pie is so big you can't make out what is 5 pieces away from you.

[Eleven]

36 minutes ago, JujuFish said:

New Hampshire, where I live, has no state income tax and yet is among states subsidizing others, as you put it.

That's because you, Promo, and the other seven people who are permanent residents are somewhat responsible.

(Seriously, though, NH has nowhere near the infrastructure needs that Florida and Texas do.)

25 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I believe I heard the president say yesterday that when "federal" help went to NY, he didn't discuss any repayment with the governor, because that wouldn't be right during an emergency, but once it's all over, there will have to be discussions of repayment.

Someone who's smarter than I am will have to explain that to me. Did Florida ever repay Washington for hurricane response funding?

I know which side of the question I'd put my money on.

[Neo]

35 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I believe I heard the president say yesterday that when "federal" help went to NY, he didn't discuss any repayment with the governor, because that wouldn't be right during an emergency, but once it's all over, there will have to be discussions of repayment.

Someone who's smarter than I am will have to explain that to me. Did Florida ever repay Washington for hurricane response funding?

Florida can’t.

[Neo]

1 hour ago, JujuFish said:

New Hampshire, where I live, has no state income tax and yet is among states subsidizing others, as you put it.

I did my Spring Breaks in Keene while my friends went to Daytona.  They came home with great stories.  I came home with Mrs. Neo.

Live Free or Die, Baby ...

[North Buffalo]

Keene and Brattleboro are neat granoly towns

[Neo]

Well, they were ... um ....   38 to 40 years ago, too!

[Eleven]

6 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Keene and Brattleboro are neat granoly towns

DEFINITELY not Keene!

[North Buffalo]

Been a few years since going there maybe 5 years ok 11 if you say so.

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Been a few years since going there maybe 5 years ok 11 if you say so.

Keene right now is the center of an anarchist movement that is neither left nor right, but certainly is loony and definitely is not granola-y.  (I actually thought you had written "not" rather than "neat" in your post and thought I was agreeing with you.)

Edited April 19, 2020 by Eleven