COVID-19

[Eleven]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

Yes, it is.

The way the world works these days is that you might be the adult but you aren't necessarily the final decision maker.  I suspect a child will challenge their parent in court at some point. 

Beyond that, I can force a lot on my children.  They in turn can make my life hell. It's not a one way street.

I just don't see this.  My mother took me for vaccines and it was, ok, I'm getting a shot in the arm.  Mom said so.

As for the "these days" stuff, I still can't agree.  I know too many parents who take their kids to get various treatments (especially adolescent girls for hep) and it's just normal.

[LTS]

14 hours ago, Eleven said:

I just don't see this.  My mother took me for vaccines and it was, ok, I'm getting a shot in the arm.  Mom said so.

As for the "these days" stuff, I still can't agree.  I know too many parents who take their kids to get various treatments (especially adolescent girls for hep) and it's just normal.

Normal yes.  So, let's say my child is 100% steadfast against being vaccinated. As a parent what do I do?  Do I FORCE them to be vaccinated and then deal with the fallout of how i have "ruined" their life?  When I try to get them in the car for the shot and they refuse, what do I do?  Do I use excessive force to get them in the car?  Do I constrain them?  If I get them to a vaccination site and they refuse to cooperate then what happens?

My point is not about rights, I know I have the right to decide.  But reasonably, my child has the ability to act against my right.  Given some of the conversation I have heard going around my 14 year old daughter's social circles... I really only expect it to be a matter of time before there's some legal case over it. I've already seen one child runaway from her parents because they decided to move her to a Catholic school so she wouldn't hang around a group of friends who supported "non-straight" relationships.  They thought their daughter was being ruined by their beliefs.  The girl didn't get far.  She's threatened suicide.

These things happen.  As a parent you have to balance that with what you believe is best for the child.

----------

Stepped away after I posted this and I wanted to add more.

Right now we are also dealing with a few families who are against the vaccination.  They won't let their children get it despite the child wanting it. There are some parents who don't want those children around the group any longer.  For the moment it's creating quite a stir.  I've no idea where that will go but the odds are probably not in favor of a amicable outcome.

So you couple things like that with the crap these kids get into online (not going to debate online access, that's another topic).  Not just the ideologies that are shared but a lot of influencing on what their behaviors should be like in response to certain social issues.  When Alabama was first in the news about blocking gender assignment treatment for minors regardless of parental permission there were a few people in my daughter's social circles that began to go on about getting rides to Alabama to protest.  Rides from people who were offering to pick them up and drive them there to protest. As a parent, that's some downright crazy stuff to know about.

Those days and these days are nothing alike.  These days your child communicates with people from all over the world, instantly.  In your days your social circle was largely limited to your school and any organizations you were part of that were outside your community.  We see the ideologies that are spread within adult communities but its not just adult communities.

I could go on with some of the things that I have seen.  For the most part you want to chalk it up to kids' just blowing off steam or venting. But you know, there's those moments when a kid rolls into a school and starts shooting.  Those stick in your head and you can't just ignore it.

Edited June 23, 2021 by LTS

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Normal yes.  So, let's say my child is 100% steadfast against being vaccinated. As a parent what do I do?  Do I FORCE them to be vaccinated and then deal with the fallout of how i have "ruined" their life?  When I try to get them in the car for the shot and they refuse, what do I do?  Do I use excessive force to get them in the car?  Do I constrain them?  If I get them to a vaccination site and they refuse to cooperate then what happens?

My point is not about rights, I know I have the right to decide.  But reasonably, my child has the ability to act against my right.  Given some of the conversation I have heard going around my 14 year old daughter's social circles... I really only expect it to be a matter of time before there's some legal case over it. I've already seen one child runaway from her parents because they decided to move her to a Catholic school so she wouldn't hang around a group of friends who supported "non-straight" relationships.  They thought their daughter was being ruined by their beliefs.  The girl didn't get far.  She's threatened suicide.

These things happen.  As a parent you have to balance that with what you believe is best for the child.

----------

Stepped away after I posted this and I wanted to add more.

Right now we are also dealing with a few families who are against the vaccination.  They won't let their children get it despite the child wanting it. There are some parents who don't want those children around the group any longer.  For the moment it's creating quite a stir.  I've no idea where that will go but the odds are probably not in favor of a amicable outcome.

So you couple things like that with the crap these kids get into online (not going to debate online access, that's another topic).  Not just the ideologies that are shared but a lot of influencing on what their behaviors should be like in response to certain social issues.  When Alabama was first in the news about blocking gender assignment treatment for minors regardless of parental permission there were a few people in my daughter's social circles that began to go on about getting rides to Alabama to protest.  Rides from people who were offering to pick them up and drive them there to protest. As a parent, that's some downright crazy stuff to know about.

Those days and these days are nothing alike.  These days your child communicates with people from all over the world, instantly.  In your days your social circle was largely limited to your school and any organizations you were part of that were outside your community.  We see the ideologies that are spread within adult communities but its not just adult communities.

I could go on with some of the things that I have seen.  For the most part you want to chalk it up to kids' just blowing off steam or venting. But you know, there's those moments when a kid rolls into a school and starts shooting.  Those stick in your head and you can't just ignore it.

 

Some great info there, agreed, it's much different raising teenagers these days vs 10 even 5 years ago.   

My 17yo wanted the vaccine and got it as soon as he could.    My 15yo bought into all the anti-vax propaganda online and initially refused.   I've had a few talks with him to help him understand how the vaccine works and why it's safe.     He's going away to a hockey prep school on the east coast in August, so we gave him some time to think about it and he's agreed to get vaccinated.     It honestly didn't take much convincing, just addressing his concerns about stuff he's heard or seen online.    

That said I would've been OK if he ultimately decided not to get vaccinated.

[LTS]

21 hours ago, pi2000 said:

 

Some great info there, agreed, it's much different raising teenagers these days vs 10 even 5 years ago.   

My 17yo wanted the vaccine and got it as soon as he could.    My 15yo bought into all the anti-vax propaganda online and initially refused.   I've had a few talks with him to help him understand how the vaccine works and why it's safe.     He's going away to a hockey prep school on the east coast in August, so we gave him some time to think about it and he's agreed to get vaccinated.     It honestly didn't take much convincing, just addressing his concerns about stuff he's heard or seen online.    

That said I would've been OK if he ultimately decided not to get vaccinated.

Given that he was still deciding I am guessing the prep school didn't have a vaccination mandate?  Or did they and was he deciding whether to attend or not as part of it?

The next big fight.  Reading this morning that JP Morgan is considering mandating vaccinations for its employees.  Read another article where a nurse (in Houston?) was fired because she refused to get vaccinated.  It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out in courts, both those of law and public opinion.

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, LTS said:

Read another article where a nurse (in Houston?) was fired because she refused to get vaccinated.

There was a class action over this one.  The nurse is appealing.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

Read another article where a nurse (in Houston?) was fired because she refused to get vaccinated.  It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out in courts, both those of law and public opinion.

150+ employees from a Houston healthcare provider either resigned or were fired for not getting vaxed.  Not a big fight really.  Companies can mandate it, end of story.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Doohickie

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Given that he was still deciding I am guessing the prep school didn't have a vaccination mandate?  Or did they and was he deciding whether to attend or not as part of it?

Correct, the school is not mandating vaccinations, but part of his decision was the fact he doesn't want to miss any hockey.

[miles]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:12 AM, LTS said:

Normal yes.  So, let's say my child is 100% steadfast against being vaccinated. As a parent what do I do?  Do I FORCE them to be vaccinated and then deal with the fallout of how i have "ruined" their life?  When I try to get them in the car for the shot and they refuse, what do I do?  Do I use excessive force to get them in the car?  Do I constrain them?  If I get them to a vaccination site and they refuse to cooperate then what happens?

My point is not about rights, I know I have the right to decide.  But reasonably, my child has the ability to act against my right.  Given some of the conversation I have heard going around my 14 year old daughter's social circles... I really only expect it to be a matter of time before there's some legal case over it. I've already seen one child runaway from her parents because they decided to move her to a Catholic school so she wouldn't hang around a group of friends who supported "non-straight" relationships.  They thought their daughter was being ruined by their beliefs.  The girl didn't get far.  She's threatened suicide.

These things happen.  As a parent you have to balance that with what you believe is best for the child.

----------

Stepped away after I posted this and I wanted to add more.

Right now we are also dealing with a few families who are against the vaccination.  They won't let their children get it despite the child wanting it. There are some parents who don't want those children around the group any longer.  For the moment it's creating quite a stir.  I've no idea where that will go but the odds are probably not in favor of a amicable outcome.

So you couple things like that with the crap these kids get into online (not going to debate online access, that's another topic).  Not just the ideologies that are shared but a lot of influencing on what their behaviors should be like in response to certain social issues.  When Alabama was first in the news about blocking gender assignment treatment for minors regardless of parental permission there were a few people in my daughter's social circles that began to go on about getting rides to Alabama to protest.  Rides from people who were offering to pick them up and drive them there to protest. As a parent, that's some downright crazy stuff to know about.

Those days and these days are nothing alike.  These days your child communicates with people from all over the world, instantly.  In your days your social circle was largely limited to your school and any organizations you were part of that were outside your community.  We see the ideologies that are spread within adult communities but its not just adult communities.

I could go on with some of the things that I have seen.  For the most part you want to chalk it up to kids' just blowing off steam or venting. But you know, there's those moments when a kid rolls into a school and starts shooting.  Those stick in your head and you can't just ignore it.

 

i guess i will age myself here. if this took place when i was a kid, there would have been a statement of get in the car and shut it. i would have gotten in the car and shut it...because if i didnt, it would have been much worse than any side effect i could dream of

[LTS]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

There was a class action over this one.  The nurse is appealing.

Got it.

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

150+ employees from a Houston healthcare provider either resigned or were fired for not getting vexed.  Not a big fight really.  Companies can mandate it, end of story.

Not end of story as outlined above it would seem.

43 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

 

i guess i will age myself here. if this took place when i was a kid, there would have been a statement of get in the car and shut it. i would have gotten in the car and shut it...because if i didnt, it would have been much worse than any side effect i could dream of

Yes, well things have changed.  The "worse" of yesteryear would certainly end up with Child Protective Services showing up at your house.

[mjd1001]

Not related to whether vaccines should or should not be mandatory but....

It appears Covid rates have stopped going down and are now rising not only in the rest of the world, but slightly in the USA as well..

-For the first time since early Spring of this year, the week-over-week number of cases in the USA is rising.

-In the U.K. They had a long string (weeks) with less than 3,000 cases per day, every day. Cases have shot up in the past couple weeks and now they are back above 15,000 new cases per day for almost a week.

-For most of the last 2 months, the vast majority of states (some days of reporting all 50 states) had falling cases. As of today however, 20 states have an increasing 7 day moving average of cases.

-A new 'gamma' variant is spreading through Brazil.  The current vaccines we have appears to be much less effective against that variant.

I don't know the 'correct' solution but this thing needs to be knocked out once and for all.  I hope it isn't the case, but if these small short-term trends continue.....I personally do not think this country will go back into any kind of lockdown..but I can see restrictions on large gatherings (sporting events?) start to come back this fall IF we get another huge spike in cases.

[drnkirishone]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't know the 'correct' solution but this thing needs to be knocked out once and for all. 

To little to late. it is here to stay

[miles]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/dose-mixing-shows-strong-response-215914451.html

Might bE old news

[Brawndo]

9 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Not related to whether vaccines should or should not be mandatory but....

It appears Covid rates have stopped going down and are now rising not only in the rest of the world, but slightly in the USA as well..

-For the first time since early Spring of this year, the week-over-week number of cases in the USA is rising.

-In the U.K. They had a long string (weeks) with less than 3,000 cases per day, every day. Cases have shot up in the past couple weeks and now they are back above 15,000 new cases per day for almost a week.

-For most of the last 2 months, the vast majority of states (some days of reporting all 50 states) had falling cases. As of today however, 20 states have an increasing 7 day moving average of cases.

-A new 'gamma' variant is spreading through Brazil.  The current vaccines we have appears to be much less effective against that variant.

I don't know the 'correct' solution but this thing needs to be knocked out once and for all.  I hope it isn't the case, but if these small short-term trends continue.....I personally do not think this country will go back into any kind of lockdown..but I can see restrictions on large gatherings (sporting events?) start to come back this fall IF we get another huge spike in cases.

Dr Fauci was interviewed earlier today and they are predicting the Delta Variant will be predominant in the US in the next few months, but most outbreaks should be regionalized in States with low vaccination rates. 
 

[miles]

I think this might be one of the silliest articles I've read

It says getting Pfizer vaccine as your second shot where astra zenica being the first is better than 2 of the AstraZeneca. then it says that 2 pfizer is better than the mixing of the vaccine. 

Essentially saying Pfizer is better than AstraZeneca. 

My days of clicking on covid articles are coming to an end now

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mixing-covid-vaccines-more-effective-115630762.html

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[Doohickie]

18 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Not related to whether vaccines should or should not be mandatory but....

...

I don't know the 'correct' solution but this thing needs to be knocked out once and for all. 

I think the second quoted line points pretty strongly to the opening line of your post. 

One cause for optimism is that thus far the vaccines have been superstars.  Another is that there is some likelihood that a curative treatment will be approved for use by the end of the year.  That alone could be a game changer.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

I think this might be one of the silliest articles I've read

It says getting Pfizer vaccine as your second shot where astra zenica being the first is better than 2 of the AstraZeneca. then it says that 2 pfizer is better than the mixing of the vaccine. 

Essentially saying Pfizer is better than AstraZeneca. 

My days of clicking on covid articles are coming to an end now

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mixing-covid-vaccines-more-effective-115630762.html

Can you explain why you think this is "silly"?

10 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/dose-mixing-shows-strong-response-215914451.html

Might bE old news

Dated 29 June 2021.

[miles]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Can you explain why you think this is "silly"?

Dated 29 June 

The title of the article is mixing the vaccines are better, but in reality it's just the pfizer is more effective than the AstraZeneca. 

Just seems silly to me to write an article about mixing, when in reality one is better. If you get to choose, who would pick mixing when one is better. If you dont get to choose, it doesn't really matter because you are getting what you get

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[Doohickie]

I don't think it's silly to check the effects of different courses of preventative treatment, and if Pfizer supply is limited, there may be an overall benefit to "stretching" it out by only giving a single Pfizer dose in conjunction with an A-Z dose... or to improve the resistance of people who've already had an A-Z dose.

But I don't see anything silly or foolish in studying the effects of people getting multiple types of vaccines.

The headline is kind of off though, I'll give you that.

[miles]

hahaha,

see the second part of the story. soda causes slightly positive test cases for covid

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vaccines-may-curb-virus-mutations-162917356.html

 

[PerreaultForever]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:45 PM, Brawndo said:

Dr Fauci was interviewed earlier today and they are predicting the Delta Variant will be predominant in the US in the next few months, but most outbreaks should be regionalized in States with low vaccination rates. 
 

Hate to break it to ya, but Delta not half as worrisome as Epsilon.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210706093857.htm

It's possible it could take us right back to square one. 

 

[Brawndo]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Hate to break it to ya, but Delta not half as worrisome as Epsilon.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210706093857.htm

It's possible it could take us right back to square one. 

 

I have been telling My Vaccine Hesitant Patients this for Months. 
 

They ask Why People who are vaccinated have to worry about Them not getting the shot, I respond with if not enough people get fully immunized there eventually will be a variant that current vaccines are not as effective or even worse ineffective against. 

[SDS]

My unvaccinated sister brought home Covid to her unvaccinated husband and he died on Monday. BIG former guy supporter. Connoisseur of disinformation.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

(condolences are unnecessary. I never met the guy and i’m not super close with this sibling from a previous marriage.)

[miles]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/am-30-no-reason-vaccinated-093000757.html

 

this is definitely a "me" person, and not a "we" person

[sabremike]

On 7/9/2021 at 11:10 AM, SDS said:

My unvaccinated sister brought home Covid to her unvaccinated husband and he died on Monday. BIG former guy supporter. Connoisseur of disinformation.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

(condolences are unnecessary. I never met the guy and i’m not super close with this sibling from a previous marriage.)

This type of take is no better than people who celebrate certain populations dying from AIDS as God's vengeance against sinners.

[BagBoy]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

This type of take is no better than people who celebrate certain populations dying from AIDS as God's vengeance against sinners.

I get your point, but I disagree.  AIDS victims in the 90's, if given the chance, would have flocked to where vaccinations and/or cures were available in droves.