COVID-19

[Doohickie]

Also, I would suspect that the vaxed are more likely to mask up.  I generally do when going out.

[That Aud Smell]

Mass vaccination remains our best hope of managing this disease.

But sh1t like this (the public comms to which David W-W refers) from the government and other established institutions does NOT help the cause, at all. This whole thread is illuminating, actually -- and maddening.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by That Aud Smell

[MISabresFan]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:41 PM, JohnC said:

Where do you get your data from? A Qanon website? When I hear people speak crazily about the vaccines I get so frustrated and angry. The vaccines have been a blessing that has given us a degree of freedom that we lost at the height of the pandemic. Now it seems that we are going back to that hellish period because of this lunatic cultish fringe with the mindset that is anti-science and and rationality. 

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/09/dick-farrel-dies-covid19/

LOL,  and I see it the same way from my perspective.  I grew up with a parent working in research for one of the vacine producing companies.  I used to help him on weekends doing mass surgery on thousands of small animals removing certain organs to see how they react to certain possible new drugs.  (he did the surgery I grabbed the cages and returned the animals,  note a father can not bring a child to do this today due to certain regulations).  So I have a science background (minor in chemistry and enough biology classes including microbiology,  note I am not an expert but have a basic understanding of science) it is in the family and when the virus first broke out and we were told to disinfect everything we touched, bags from the grocery store, gas pump handles, I thought something doesnt seem right.  Virus's dont live for two weeks on an outdoor gas pump, it is not scientifically correct.  Just like the term vaccine - which creates immunity and the vaccines currently do not, based on the evidence of vaccinated people getting sick from what they were vaccinated against.  What has happened is the science has been twisted and turned into myths.  Another example - why stand six feet away?  This is science.  To catch the virus you have to ingest it, breathe it in, thru your ears, eyes, ***** or other parts where it can get it.  Having sex, petting, etc... is how it spreads.  We in Michigan were threatened, that if we were outsite we couldnt do this or that, well it did not match the science.  How many large events in Michigan (outdoor events) happened and no increase in Covid infection =none - Science.  This virus does not have wings.  It doesn;t fly around and enter your body over 100 of yards away like a biting fly or mosquito.  It doesnt single certain people or races out.  Thats science.  Vaccinated people by Pfizer, Moderna, J&J are not immune.  So you say follow the science, what science, to wear two masks, one mask, or no masks?  Who is using their twisted ideas of science to move people to a certain category or ideals.  In today's world it is hard to figure out which is fact and what is fiction.  What is science and what is a myth.  The media - well they dont help.  The government - they have different agenda's then we the people no matter what party they are a part of.   Entertainers/sports figures have their own agendas.  When in this country did it turn into well because you believe this you are an idiot?  We used to listen to all sides of debates and scientific research and information without cancelling out people who disagree or offer a different opinion.  Try that on Social media - facebook, twitter, and you will be cancelled out for your ideas or thoughts.  Weird, I get it.   I dont hate you for having a different opinion.  It is your right and choice.  Matter of fact it is good to listen to another perspective.  However alot of what is going on today doesn't allow it.  Critical thinking (in schools from K to college), allowing to think for yourself and make your own decisions without being ridiculed or canceled out is not America today.  It is a shame...

[Doohickie]

16 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

LOL,  and I see it the same way from my perspective.  I grew up with a parent working in research for one of the vacine producing companies.  I used to help him on weekends doing mass surgery on thousands of small animals removing certain organs to see how they react to certain possible new drugs.  (he did the surgery I grabbed the cages and returned the animals,  note a father can not bring a child to do this today due to certain regulations).  So I have a science background (minor in chemistry and enough biology classes including microbiology,  note I am not an expert but have a basic understanding of science) it is in the family and when the virus first broke out and we were told to disinfect everything we touched, bags from the grocery store, gas pump handles, I thought something doesnt seem right.  Virus's dont live for two weeks on an outdoor gas pump, it is not scientifically correct.  Just like the term vaccine - which creates immunity and the vaccines currently do not, based on the evidence of vaccinated people getting sick from what they were vaccinated against.  What has happened is the science has been twisted and turned into myths.  Another example - why stand six feet away?  This is science.  To catch the virus you have to ingest it, breathe it in, thru your ears, eyes, ***** or other parts where it can get it.  Having sex, petting, etc... is how it spreads.  We in Michigan were threatened, that if we were outsite we couldnt do this or that, well it did not match the science.  How many large events in Michigan (outdoor events) happened and no increase in Covid infection =none - Science.  This virus does not have wings.  It doesn;t fly around and enter your body over 100 of yards away like a biting fly or mosquito.  It doesnt single certain people or races out.  Thats science.  Vaccinated people by Pfizer, Moderna, J&J are not immune.  So you say follow the science, what science, to wear two masks, one mask, or no masks?  Who is using their twisted ideas of science to move people to a certain category or ideals.  In today's world it is hard to figure out which is fact and what is fiction.  What is science and what is a myth.  The media - well they dont help.  The government - they have different agenda's then we the people no matter what party they are a part of.   Entertainers/sports figures have their own agendas.  When in this country did it turn into well because you believe this you are an idiot?  We used to listen to all sides of debates and scientific research and information without cancelling out people who disagree or offer a different opinion.  Try that on Social media - facebook, twitter, and you will be cancelled out for your ideas or thoughts.  Weird, I get it.   I dont hate you for having a different opinion.  It is your right and choice.  Matter of fact it is good to listen to another perspective.  However alot of what is going on today doesn't allow it.  Critical thinking (in schools from K to college), allowing to think for yourself and make your own decisions without being ridiculed or canceled out is not America today.  It is a shame...

So you're saying you're smart enough to be smarter than the epidemiologists that came up with the vaccine but apparently you're not smart enough to know what a line break is.

You ramble on about a lot of stuff in that post, but the fact of the matter is that vaccinations are a strong tool against Covid: 
 

Quote

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Doohickie

[MISabresFan]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

So you're saying you're smart enough to be smarter than the epidemiologists that came up with the vaccine but apparently you're not smart enough to know what a line break is.

I have an understanding of science.  Beside ranting, the information provided from scientists is not always accepted by other scientists and this form of questioning leads to scientific fact.  Right now this covid science is a big worldwide experiment using millions of human test subjects.  Even your most famous epidemiologists worldwide disagree on the vaccinations and their effectiveness and the long term health issues.  Until all scientific perspectives are allowed to be heard and researched, we may never see a solution to this virus.

 

[Doohickie]

Just now, MISabresFan said:

I have an understanding of science.  Beside ranting, the information provided from scientists is not always accepted by other scientists and this form of questioning leads to scientific fact.  Right now this covid science is a big worldwide experiment using millions of human test subjects.  Even your most famous epidemiologists worldwide disagree on the vaccinations and their effectiveness and the long term health issues.  Until all scientific perspectives are allowed to be heard and researched, we may never see a solution to this virus.

You keep claiming to know how science works and then immediately follow up with points that demonstrate that you don't. 

[SwampD]

14 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

I have an understanding of science.  Beside ranting, the information provided from scientists is not always accepted by other scientists and this form of questioning leads to scientific fact.  Right now this covid science is a big worldwide experiment using millions of human test subjects.  Even your most famous epidemiologists worldwide disagree on the vaccinations and their effectiveness and the long term health issues.  Until all scientific perspectives are allowed to be heard and researched, we may never see a solution to this virus.

 

I’m finding it hard to believe a single word of your posts.

[MISabresFan]

14 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

You keep claiming to know how science works and then immediately follow up with points that demonstrate that you don't. 

See, we can beg to differ and not get cancelled....

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I’m finding it hard to believe a single word of your posts.

and why is that, because my profile pic doesn't have a chicken on someone's head...lol

[SwampD]

16 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

 

and why is that, because my profile pic doesn't have a chicken on someone's head...lol

I’ve found that most people who start with “I know stuff so you should believe me” story, are usually full of *****.

You then use the word “cancel” or a variation way to often,... and the return key not often enough.

[MISabresFan]

18 hours ago, SwampD said:

I'm finding that any statistic someone tries to throw at me to justify not getting vaccinated, ends up being some cherry picked bull-***** that just makes them sound like they struggled with high school math.

I've gotten to the point where I honestly don't care if someone chooses to not get vaccinated, just don't give me numbers to validate your decision. If they just say, "I really don't want to get vaxxed, so I'm not going to," I'm fine. I can at least respect that.

Yes it is hard to accept facts for most ( I wont go there).   At the end of Sunday; Washington had the highest increase, with a 127 percent jump to 15,564 cases. That was followed by Vermont with a 102 percent jump to 431 cases and New Hampshire with a 99 percent jump to 1,005 cases.  Vermont is one of the highest vaccinated states with  25.4%  Under 18,  81.3% 18-64 years old, and 99.99 64 and up.  

 

[MISabresFan]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I’ve found that most people who start with “I know stuff so you should believe me” story, are usually full of *****.

You then use the word “cancel” or a variation way to often,... and the return key not often enough.

A writer I am not and yes my grammar is off...I admit my faults.  

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

Yes it is hard to accept facts for most ( I wont go there).   At the end of Sunday; Washington had the highest increase, with a 127 percent jump to 15,564 cases. That was followed by Vermont with a 102 percent jump to 431 cases and New Hampshire with a 99 percent jump to 1,005 cases.  Vermont is one of the highest vaccinated states with  25.4%  Under 18,  81.3% 18-64 years old, and 99.99 64 and up.  

 

So what you are telling me is the vaccines work as Vermont has a very low number of Covid cases compared to say Florida... 21,000 is their 7 day average. Glad to know the vaccines are doing their jobs. 

[spndnchz]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

LOL,  and I see it the same way from my perspective.  I grew up with a parent working in research for one of the vacine producing companies.  I used to help him on weekends doing mass surgery on thousands of small animals removing certain organs to see how they react to certain possible new drugs.  (he did the surgery I grabbed the cages and returned the animals,  note a father can not bring a child to do this today due to certain regulations).  So I have a science background (minor in chemistry and enough<<snip>> not to take away from anything you said, but I can’t read that without a return button  

 

[Marions Piazza]

I can't stand people that rationale not getting a vaccine because you can still get the virus if you're vaccinated (albeit small, break through cases aren't that common). That's like saying, people die in car crashes even when they wear their seatbelt, so why should i wear mine?

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

and why is that, because my profile pic doesn't have a chicken on someone's head...lol

See, now you're starting to make sense.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

Yes it is hard to accept facts for most ( I wont go there).   At the end of Sunday; Washington had the highest increase, with a 127 percent jump to 15,564 cases. That was followed by Vermont with a 102 percent jump to 431 cases and New Hampshire with a 99 percent jump to 1,005 cases.  Vermont is one of the highest vaccinated states with  25.4%  Under 18,  81.3% 18-64 years old, and 99.99 64 and up. 

Just because there are new cases does not mean that the vaccine is not effective.  People who are vaccinated represent less than 1% of Covid deaths despite being (approximately) the same portion of the population as the unvaccinated population.  With the Delta variant, it is able to infect a vaxed individual but very rarely gains enough of a toe hold to cause major illness.  The mechanism of the vaccine is primarily in the bloodstream, but the Delta variant is particularly successful in the sinuses and mucus membranes of the upper respiratory system.  So people test positive and have respiratory symptoms but the disease does not progress beyond that because the vaccine works to prevent widespread internal infection.

[pi2000]

40 minutes ago, Marions Piazza said:

I can't stand people that rationale not getting a vaccine because you can still get the virus if you're vaccinated (albeit small, break through cases aren't that common). That's like saying, people die in car crashes even when they wear their seatbelt, so why should i wear mine?

When they came out with the seatbelt law, a large number of folks protested "you can't force me to wear a seatbelt, because.. RIGHTS"... or "look this guy died BECAUSE he had his seatbelt on....".     Even tho the data showed they saved lives.    Those types of people will always exist, and decades later there are still folks who don't wear seatbelts.    You can't cure stupid.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, MISabresFan said:

LOL,  and I see it the same way from my perspective.  I grew up with a parent working in research for one of the vacine producing companies.  I used to help him on weekends doing mass surgery on thousands of small animals removing certain organs to see how they react to certain possible new drugs.  (he did the surgery I grabbed the cages and returned the animals,  note a father can not bring a child to do this today due to certain regulations).  So I have a science background (minor in chemistry and enough biology classes including microbiology,  note I am not an expert but have a basic understanding of science) it is in the family and when the virus first broke out and we were told to disinfect everything we touched, bags from the grocery store, gas pump handles, I thought something doesnt seem right.  Virus's dont live for two weeks on an outdoor gas pump, it is not scientifically correct.  Just like the term vaccine - which creates immunity and the vaccines currently do not, based on the evidence of vaccinated people getting sick from what they were vaccinated against.  What has happened is the science has been twisted and turned into myths.  Another example - why stand six feet away?  This is science.  To catch the virus you have to ingest it, breathe it in, thru your ears, eyes, ***** or other parts where it can get it.  Having sex, petting, etc... is how it spreads.  We in Michigan were threatened, that if we were outsite we couldnt do this or that, well it did not match the science.  How many large events in Michigan (outdoor events) happened and no increase in Covid infection =none - Science.  This virus does not have wings.  It doesn;t fly around and enter your body over 100 of yards away like a biting fly or mosquito.  It doesnt single certain people or races out.  Thats science.  Vaccinated people by Pfizer, Moderna, J&J are not immune.  So you say follow the science, what science, to wear two masks, one mask, or no masks?  Who is using their twisted ideas of science to move people to a certain category or ideals.  In today's world it is hard to figure out which is fact and what is fiction.  What is science and what is a myth.  The media - well they dont help.  The government - they have different agenda's then we the people no matter what party they are a part of.   Entertainers/sports figures have their own agendas.  When in this country did it turn into well because you believe this you are an idiot?  We used to listen to all sides of debates and scientific research and information without cancelling out people who disagree or offer a different opinion.  Try that on Social media - facebook, twitter, and you will be cancelled out for your ideas or thoughts.  Weird, I get it.   I dont hate you for having a different opinion.  It is your right and choice.  Matter of fact it is good to listen to another perspective.  However alot of what is going on today doesn't allow it.  Critical thinking (in schools from K to college), allowing to think for yourself and make your own decisions without being ridiculed or canceled out is not America today.  It is a shame...

You are out of decisively step with with the medical community. 

[Weave]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are out of decisively step with with the medical community. 

But he was helping his dad dissect animals in some secretive lab that had no security on the weekends.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Weave

[darksabre]

54 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

When they came out with the seatbelt law, a large number of folks protested "you can't force me to wear a seatbelt, because.. RIGHTS"... or "look this guy died BECAUSE he had his seatbelt on....".     Even tho the data showed they saved lives.    Those types of people will always exist, and decades later there are still folks who don't wear seatbelts.    You can't cure stupid.

I still can't believe there are states where you don't even have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle. Like, talk about needlessly putting yourself at risk.

[JohnC]

31 minutes ago, Weave said:

But he was helping his dad dissect animals in some secretive lab that had no security on the weekends.

I'm not trying to ridicule anyone or be dismissive. But when facts are no longer a factor in a discussion it becomes pointless to engage. The lesson to be learned is:  Zealots can not be penetrated. They are in a world of their own. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

Good to see the bullying in this thread is still alive and well.

Good luck MI, you'll get no sympathy here, either join the mass mob or be annihilated 😂😂

There's plenty of actual science that combats some of the status quo, but it's harder to find on Google so the masses don't actually access it. 

With that said, I got poked, and I don't regret it. But the brainwashing is real and has been accomplished. Congrats big brother 😘

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

When they came out with the seatbelt law, a large number of folks protested "you can't force me to wear a seatbelt, because.. RIGHTS"... or "look this guy died BECAUSE he had his seatbelt on....".     Even tho the data showed they saved lives.    Those types of people will always exist, and decades later there are still folks who don't wear seatbelts.    You can't cure stupid.

100% correct and my father refused to wear one because freedom...until one saved MY life.

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Good to see the bullying in this thread is still alive and well.

Good luck MI, you'll get no sympathy here, either join the mass mob or be annihilated 😂😂

There's plenty of actual science that combats some of the status quo, but it's harder to find on Google so the masses don't actually access it. 

With that said, I got poked, and I don't regret it. But the brainwashing is real and has been accomplished. Congrats big brother 😘

What bullying?

What do you mean when you say status quo?

[Wyldnwoody44]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What bullying?

What do you mean when you say status quo?

It's been this way since day 1, one of the reasons I took a year off, and have been petty good about avoiding this thread in general.

One new person comes in and he tells his life story, and general thoughts; within 15 minutes, he's being ridiculed and made fun of because he disagrees. 

The status quo is what is spoon fed by the media: some in here are better than others about delving in a bit, but most are very very reactionary about the tidbits they hear. 

I have first hand experience with this virus both in the lab and in practice, there are many truths out there but a lot of stuff being misrepresented. I made an informed decision and got the vaccine, but think there are many many unknowns about long term efficacy and risk. 

Literally in the last 3 weeks, I have had 2 DIC patients with splenic issues and thrombus with the only explination being the J+J vaccine.

Small sample size, but 2 in my own small world means that is happening much larger in scale overall. Risk vs benefit. 

All I'm saying is give some of the people that don't fully buy in a break.