Trade Speculation and Rumors 2018-19

[inkman]

If Hanifin comes with Aho then I'm in.

Didn't Brind'Amour (sp?) say everyone on the team is open for business besides Aho?

[Weave]

Absolutely, but they view Aho only slightly less than we view Eichel, and deservedly so, quite frankly. He's in that Marner tier of stars, just a hair behind Eich/Matthews.

Would you make the argument that ROR is in that tier as well?

[Randall Flagg]

Would you make the argument that ROR is in that tier as well?

It's tough for me to fit him in a tier with players that young. Part of being in the Eichel/Matthews tier is ceiling - ROR objectively as a player right now is probably on that tier of player, but I wouldn't classify him or his trade value or his value to the franchise in the same way because of the development that all the kiddos still have to do. I think he makes us better next season than adding in Aho and Marner for those 82 games, but I would trade him for either of those two straight up in a heartbeat. 

 

In the same way, I wouldn't talk about Kopitar, Kesler of yesteryear, Bergeron in the same breath as Eichel and Matthews and young guns as well. 

 

ROR is in a class of players with those guys, at the lower end, but he's still there. And those guys have tremendous value in their own right, and are more conducive to winning right this second than a 21 year old that has displayed dazzling skill and is still finding his way. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[nfreeman]

Remember the bad old days of Patience Regier? What if he hasn’t really returned.

We have this perception of Botterill as all slow and methodical.

What if he’s truly pissed and seriously blows it up over the next few weeks with blockbusters for O’Reilly and Risto and a couple significant mid-range free gent signings?

 

It’s definitley June and I’m feeling the draft-time buzz.

 

Despite the wailing on this board that would certainly ensue, I'd be totally fine with this.

 

We need to remember how freaking disappointing they were last year, and how many times they just didn't show up.

 

Something is very wrong.

 

Or, better put:

 

I want changes, I contrary to belief don't think we're that close.... We finished dead last 2 of the last few seasons, that's with eichel!

 

I want real hockey trades, not hopes that our 2 draft picks will get us from 31st to 25th.

 

Change this thing up, something is wrong with the team setup/chemistry/etc.

[Taro T]

Completely forgot that Waddell is now the Candy Canes GM. It probably won't be as expensive as believed to get a Hannifin or equivalent out of Carolina because Donny is mentally deficient. (Pretty sure even he won't give up Aho for a bag of pucks, but could see him lovin' some Bogosian as a part of a lesser deal.) He wouldn't be able to build a winner if somebody gave him a checklist of preapproved moves to make the equivalent of last year's Pens.

 

Garth Snow isn't dead. He was reincarnated in Carolina. (And people continue to wonder why hockey is a hard sell in the traditional deep south. Bringing in idiots like Waddell to run things does nothing to build a following.)

[GASabresIUFAN]

Despite the wailing on this board that would certainly ensue, I'd be totally fine with this.

 

We need to remember how freaking disappointing they were last year, and how many times they just didn't show up.

 

Something is very wrong.

 

Or, better put:

Sure lets trade Eichel and Reinhart also. In fact lets clean the slate and trade away everyone over 28 and everyone who played over 30 games for us last season. I’m sure that will lead to better results. Edited June 7, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[7+6=13]

Amen and amen.

 

Before trading O'Reilly or Ristolainen, the team really needs to consider how those roles are going to be filled.

 

And I don't want any more stinking draft picks or prospects.

 

If I'm JBOT - I wouldn't try to win with Eichel, ROR, young players that should be very good, and what's currently on this roster.  There's too much to try and fix through free agency - I wouldn't repeat that disaster.  Once the roster is mostly filled out - hit on free agency and go push for a cup.  

 

I think we as fans have to be ready for the real possibility that we are in year one of a rebuild.  For me Risto shouldn't go anywhere but I'm moving ROR if I can get a high draft pick,  prospect and/or a young NHL player.  

 

We should be ready to win in Dahlin and Mittelstadts'  3rd season.  My core and leaders are now Eichel, Risto, Mitts and Dahlin.  My team is filled out with a combo of Reinhardt, Guhle, possibly ERod, a few veterans/FA's and our current prospects in the system. 

 

Then my high pick and prospect from the ROR trade are what's coming up behind them - along with the current draft picks in Rochester that don't make the club this year.  

 

This gives me a couple years to find my goalie and we're ready.

[nfreeman]

Sure lets trade Eichel and Reinhart also. In fact lets clean the slate and trade away everyone over 28 and everyone who played over 30 games for us last season. I’m sure that will lead to better results.

 

First of all, Reino does not belong in the same sarcastic sentence as Eichel.  Reino's career to date has been a disappointment, and no one should be surprised if he is traded this summer instead of (or frankly in addition to) ROR.

 

Second, and more importantly, evaluating players requires more than just looking at the numbers.  JBott and Howie are much better positioned than we are to see how these guys respond to coaching, how seriously they take their jobs, how they interact with their teammates, how well they execute the less-noticeable plays that contribute to winning (or, the Sabres' case, losing) and a bunch of other important factors that don't show up in the stats.  If they analyze all of these factors and decide that ROR, Reino, Risto or pretty much anyone on the team other than Eichel and Dahlin aren't good enough -- I'm fine with letting them go.  It's not like they are pillars of a strong team.

 

Third, no one is advocating a fire sale.  The prevailing wisdom appears to be that ROR is a valuable asset, so presumably the Sabres would get good value in return.

[GASabresIUFAN]

First of all, Reino does not belong in the same sarcastic sentence as Eichel. Reino's career to date has been a disappointment, and no one should be surprised if he is traded this summer instead of (or frankly in addition to) ROR.

 

Second, and more importantly, evaluating players requires more than just looking at the numbers. JBott and Howie are much better positioned than we are to see how these guys respond to coaching, how seriously they take their jobs, how they interact with their teammates, how well they execute the less-noticeable plays that contribute to winning (or, the Sabres' case, losing) and a bunch of other important factors that don't show up in the stats. If they analyze all of these factors and decide that ROR, Reino, Risto or pretty much anyone on the team other than Eichel and Dahlin aren't good enough -- I'm fine with letting them go. It's not like they are pillars of a strong team.

 

Third, no one is advocating a fire sale. The prevailing wisdom appears to be that ROR is a valuable asset, so presumably the Sabres would get good value in return.

Sure they are. If you trade an irreplaceable center and a 40 pt D, you are tearing down the new core, because you won’t get equal value in return in NHL experienced players. The solution is build on the current core we have, not trade away our best players because the previous GM didn’t build out a roster to support those players. Think about it, but we have basically left Risto carry the entire D for the last 3 years.

[Radar]

Sure they are. If you trade an irreplaceable center and a 40 pt D, you are tearing down the new core, because you won’t get equal value in return in NHL experienced players. The solution is build on the current core we have, not trade away our best players because the previous GM didn’t build out a roster to support those players. Think about it, but we have basically left Risto carry the entire D for the last 3 years.

Exactly. Build on the core we have. The problem with our team is our depth players and need for more scoring on second/third lines. Upgrade our goaltending. Trading ROR and Risto doesn't make sense to me unless it's for an unbelievable deal that I don't envision.

[Trettioåtta]

First of all, Reino does not belong in the same sarcastic sentence as Eichel.  Reino's career to date has been a disappointment, and no one should be surprised if he is traded this summer instead of (or frankly in addition to) ROR.

 

Second, and more importantly, evaluating players requires more than just looking at the numbers.  JBott and Howie are much better positioned than we are to see how these guys respond to coaching, how seriously they take their jobs, how they interact with their teammates, how well they execute the less-noticeable plays that contribute to winning (or, the Sabres' case, losing) and a bunch of other important factors that don't show up in the stats.  If they analyze all of these factors and decide that ROR, Reino, Risto or pretty much anyone on the team other than Eichel and Dahlin aren't good enough -- I'm fine with letting them go.  It's not like they are pillars of a strong team.

 

Third, no one is advocating a fire sale.  The prevailing wisdom appears to be that ROR is a valuable asset, so presumably the Sabres would get good value in return.

 

I dunno, a lot of proposals involve us getting a low end second line centre, a mediocre pick or prospect and a cap dump.

 

Ignoring age, I would take RORs 60 points over Eichel's 75 any day of the year. Eichel either needs to become 100 point player, or become defensively capable. That combined with some actual depth and maybe we start to turn things around.

 

Also I dont like how much people are relying on Casey after a few NHL games. Remember Foligno's first 15 games?

[Eleven]

I dunno, a lot of proposals involve us getting a low end second line centre, a mediocre pick or prospect and a cap dump.

 

Ignoring age, I would take RORs 60 points over Eichel's 75 any day of the year. Eichel either needs to become 100 point player, or become defensively capable. That combined with some actual depth and maybe we start to turn things around.

 

Also I dont like how much people are relying on Casey after a few NHL games. Remember Foligno's first 15 games?

 

This is an interesting and worthwhile opinion.  I mean it.

[Randall Flagg]

I dunno, a lot of proposals involve us getting a low end second line centre, a mediocre pick or prospect and a cap dump.

 

Ignoring age, I would take RORs 60 points over Eichel's 75 any day of the year. Eichel either needs to become 100 point player, or become defensively capable. That combined with some actual depth and maybe we start to turn things around.

 

Also I dont like how much people are relying on Casey after a few NHL games. Remember Foligno's first 15 games?

And if I remember Thirty Eight's takes correctly, if he's cautioning on an ROR trade, there's no goddamn way I want to do an ROR trade now

[Weave]

I dunno, a lot of proposals involve us getting a low end second line centre, a mediocre pick or prospect and a cap dump.

 

Ignoring age, I would take RORs 60 points over Eichel's 75 any day of the year. Eichel either needs to become 100 point player, or become defensively capable. That combined with some actual depth and maybe we start to turn things around.

 

Also I dont like how much people are relying on Casey after a few NHL games. Remember Foligno's first 15 games?

 

Completely agree.  ROR is still more valuable to Buffalo than Jack.  Hopefully that changes this year.

[7+6=13]

Exactly. Build on the core we have. The problem with our team is our depth players and need for more scoring on second/third lines. Upgrade our goaltending. Trading ROR and Risto doesn't make sense to me unless it's for an unbelievable deal that I don't envision.

 

We don't have a core...yet.  I agree with you on Risto - he shouldn't go anywhere.  For me it's simple, by the time we have a proper core ROR will be 30.  It's a decision of whether a 30 year old ROR has more value than a combination of a high pick, prospect, or young NHL players projection.  

[Thorny]

TSN Tradebait

http://www.tsn.ca/erik-karlsson-tops-first-trade-bait-board-of-the-summer-1.1105047

2. ROR 16. Risto 24. Reinhart

 

 

Do people still think Sam may get traded?

 

So you're ok with having the right side of our defense consist of Zach Bogosian, Casey Nelson, and a rookie playing on his off hand?

 

Might as well start the lose for Hughes chants now.

And I still bet Dahlin plays the left. I think we need a swap of LHD for RHD either way.

 

First of all, Reino does not belong in the same sarcastic sentence as Eichel.  Reino's career to date has been a disappointment, and no one should be surprised if he is traded this summer instead of (or frankly in addition to) ROR.

 

Second, and more importantly, evaluating players requires more than just looking at the numbers.  JBott and Howie are much better positioned than we are to see how these guys respond to coaching, how seriously they take their jobs, how they interact with their teammates, how well they execute the less-noticeable plays that contribute to winning (or, the Sabres' case, losing) and a bunch of other important factors that don't show up in the stats.  If they analyze all of these factors and decide that ROR, Reino, Risto or pretty much anyone on the team other than Eichel and Dahlin aren't good enough -- I'm fine with letting them go.  It's not like they are pillars of a strong team.

 

Third, no one is advocating a fire sale.  The prevailing wisdom appears to be that ROR is a valuable asset, so presumably the Sabres would get good value in return.

I wouldn’t go that far. 42 points (with 23 goals), 47 points, and 50 points (with 25 goals), at ages ranging from 19-22, on THIS team, is far from disappointing to me.You can make that argument I guess relative to draft position, but isn’t that irrelevant after the draft is done? It also doesn’t account for strength of draft, etc.

 

I don’t really care that Sam went 2 overall, I just want him to be a good player.

 

I dunno, a lot of proposals involve us getting a low end second line centre, a mediocre pick or prospect and a cap dump.

 

Ignoring age, I would take RORs 60 points over Eichel's 75 any day of the year. Eichel either needs to become 100 point player, or become defensively capable. That combined with some actual depth and maybe we start to turn things around.

 

Also I dont like how much people are relying on Casey after a few NHL games. Remember Foligno's first 15 games?

Good post. But I’d argue Eichel has refined his defence to a degree that I’d be satisfied with point-a-game. 80+ points is fine by me.

 

Of course he’s still got a lot to work on on defence, and particularly in the FO circle.

[Ducky]

ROR should almost get you their first and Hanifin by himself.

If ROR is going to Carolina, JBot should be asking for Staal.

[Drunkard]

We don't have a core...yet.  I agree with you on Risto - he shouldn't go anywhere.  For me it's simple, by the time we have a proper core ROR will be 30.  It's a decision of whether a 30 year old ROR has more value than a combination of a high pick, prospect, or young NHL players projection.  

 

If we don't have a core at this point, we're completely . Fortunately (for my own sanity) I think we do have a core in Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart, and Mittelstadt (pbuh), coupled with Ristolainen and Dahlin on defense and hopefully Ullmark in net but we'll have to wait and see on him. 

 

I expect the Sabres to contend for a playoff spot this season (2018-2019) but if next season ends up being another turd you can always trade O'Reilly next offseason. At that point his earnings drop to just $6 million per season and we can wait until July 2nd after his $5 million bonus is paid to entice any cheapskate teams that love the value of a good player whose actual dollars paid are way less than his cap hit. O'Reilly is a model of consistency so I'd still expect strong defensive play coupled with 55-60 points even if the Sabres stink, so there will still be interest in him around the league. No need to trade him now while his eventual replacement (Mittelstadt) hasn't even played a full season.

[Rasmus_]

I think ROR is better than Duchene. At the very least equal. 

 

If Montreal wants ROR I want Galchenyuk, Mete or whatever his name is, 3rd overall pick. 

 

Duchene is very hollow when it comes to stats, and game play.  I don't want anything to do with Galchenyuk.  I'd rather it be Poehling, Mete, 3rd. 

[Radar]

Duchene is very hollow when it comes to stats, and game play.  I don't want anything to do with Galchenyuk.  I'd rather it be Poehling, Mete, 3rd.

 

I don't think he gets you a 3rd overall pick let alone something in addition.

[7+6=13]

If we don't have a core at this point, we're completely ######. Fortunately (for my own sanity) I think we do have a core in Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart, and Mittelstadt (pbuh), coupled with Ristolainen and Dahlin on defense and hopefully Ullmark in net but we'll have to wait and see on him. 

 

I expect the Sabres to contend for a playoff spot this season (2018-2019) but if next season ends up being another turd you can always trade O'Reilly next offseason. At that point his earnings drop to just $6 million per season and we can wait until July 2nd after his $5 million bonus is paid to entice any cheapskate teams that love the value of a good player whose actual dollars paid are way less than his cap hit. O'Reilly is a model of consistency so I'd still expect strong defensive play coupled with 55-60 points even if the Sabres stink, so there will still be interest in him around the league. No need to trade him now while his eventual replacement (Mittelstadt) hasn't even played a full season.

 

I'd brace for disappointment if you expect us to be in contention for the playoffs.   We lost one of our best scorers, it's possible the goaltender riddle hasn't been solved and we'll be heavily depending on teenagers.  That's not a team poised to gain 30 points in the standings.  

 

You can't call Mittelstadt and Dahlin in the core. Of course they are the hope for a core in the future - that's why ROR, imo is expendable.  I guess you say it yourself by saying "I think we have a core".  

 

Our future looks quite amazing but it's just that - the future.  

[Drunkard]

I'd brace for disappointment if you expect us to be in contention for the playoffs. We lost one of our best scorers, it's possible the goaltender riddle hasn't been solved and we'll be heavily depending on teenagers. That's not a team poised to gain 30 points in the standings.

 

You can't call Mittelstadt and Dahlin in the core. Of course they are the hope for a core in the future - that's why ROR, imo is expendable. I guess you say it yourself by saying "I think we have a core".

 

Our future looks quite amazing but it's just that - the future.

We just see it differently. Dahlin may not be a total stud as a rookie but he'll be better than Gorges, Antipin, Beaulieu, or whomever he ends up replacing. Sure losing Kane is a blow but there's always a chance Mittelstadt or somebody else replaces the majority his production. I also expect increased production from Eichel, Reinhart, and Okposo to gelp offset his departure.

 

I don't see how you can say Mittelstadt isn't part of the core yet also say he now makes O'Reilly expendable. It's both or neither and if you don't think he's part of the core yet, then I don't see how you can think O'Reilly is expendable yet. That's putting the cart before the horse.

[7+6=13]

We just see it differently. Dahlin may not be a total stud as a rookie but he'll be better than Gorges, Antipin, Beaulieu, or whomever he ends up replacing. Sure losing Kane is a blow but there's always a chance Mittelstadt or somebody else replaces the majority his production. I also expect increased production from Eichel, Reinhart, and Okposo to gelp offset his departure.

 

I don't see how you can say Mittelstadt isn't part of the core yet also say he now makes O'Reilly expendable. It's both or neither and if you don't think he's part of the core yet, then I don't see how you can think O'Reilly is expendable yet. That's putting the cart before the horse.

 

I don't think we see it as differently as you think.  I can tell you're a sincere person and I think you're optimistic for all the right reasons.  I just can't call someone who hasn't played a core player nor someone who has played 6 games.  Anyone who thinks they won't be should get mentally evaluated or they have the ability to predict catastrophic injuries - because that's about all that's going to stop these two teenagers from being good.  

 

They are not core players today, IMO - you think they are.  That's ok, we debated that out and that's where we both stand.  

 

We don't just need "Mittelstadt or somebody else" to replace Kane's production - we need Kane's production and Mittelstadt to produce at Kane's rate.  We do not have that.  I don't see how you can call that a wash and say that's ok.  We're a terribly unproductive offensive team.  We need all that you say (Eichel, Reino, Okposo increase) and much much more.  

 

So here's my point that's getting lost (my fault).  I'm not saying Mittelstadt makes ROR expendable.  I'm saying (my take) that Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Guhle, and a combo of a couple of other players in the system will be what makes this become good or not.  I believe it will take two full seasons and then the 3rd year for all of those components to come together.  ROR will be 30 that season and I'd rather have another young prospect, pick and/or young NHL player on the team instead of him.  

[Drunkard]

I don't think we see it as differently as you think. I can tell you're a sincere person and I think you're optimistic for all the right reasons. I just can't call someone who hasn't played a core player nor someone who has played 6 games. Anyone who thinks they won't be should get mentally evaluated or they have the ability to predict catastrophic injuries - because that's about all that's going to stop these two teenagers from being good.

 

They are not core players today, IMO - you think they are. That's ok, we debated that out and that's where we both stand.

 

We don't just need "Mittelstadt or somebody else" to replace Kane's production - we need Kane's production and Mittelstadt to produce at Kane's rate. We do not have that. I don't see how you can call that a wash and say that's ok. We're a terribly unproductive offensive team. We need all that you say (Eichel, Reino, Okposo increase) and much much more.

 

So here's my point that's getting lost (my fault). I'm not saying Mittelstadt makes ROR expendable. I'm saying (my take) that Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Guhle, and a combo of a couple of other players in the system will be what makes this become good or not. I believe it will take two full seasons and then the 3rd year for all of those components to come together. ROR will be 30 that season and I'd rather have another young prospect, pick and/or young NHL player on the team instead of him.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm choosing to be delusional but I don't think this team will take 2 or 3 more seasons to contend in this league.

 

Maybe I'll feel differently in December if this team is still a train wreck after 2 months next season, but at this point I'd rather not ship out the best veteran we got while they waste the ELC's of Mittelstadt and Dahlin the same way they pissed away the dirt cheap years of Ristolainen, Eichel and Reinhart.

[GASabresIUFAN]

So why did the Caps win this Cup?

 

They were strong down the middle, they were tough on defense, and had excellent goaltending.

 

So where are we?  We are getting strong down the middle and getting better on defense.  So why are we even considering trading ROR and/or Risto?