What Should The Sabres Goals Be For The Rest of The Season?

[Brawndo]

 

Your premise is spot on though, the team has a Franchise Center in Eichel. A role that Dylan Strome or Marner wouldn't have filled

[Crusader1969]

Do you mean Mitch Marner? William Nylander was the 8th Overall Pick in 2014 Draft

Yes. Just throwing out a guy who was drafted around 8th in 2015 Where the Sabres would be if they didn't TanK

 

Lawson Crouse?

I don't think there's a Sabres fan that doesn't understand your sentiment.  However, other than for psychological reasons, it does not benefit this team to win.  

 

The team we'll have an opportunity to compete with,  will comprise of 65-70% different players.

 

Let's not forget the Sabres were one of the best teams post all star game in 2015-16. Where did that get them going into the next season?

 

Not saying I want them to Tank. I certainly don't cheer for losses like i did in 2015. JUst win enough to finish 1 point behind the team that finishes 28th

[ubkev]

C'mon. You honestly believe they'd be in last right now with either Laine or Matthews on the team?

 

Is the d cor any better?

 

Scandella. Risto

zadarov. Pysyk

McCabe. Bogo.

Antipin. Gorges

The sabres of the last decade-ish do not develop players well. Yes, I believe we'd still be in last place.

[LGR4GM]

Winning this season is important. More important than trying to game the lottery.

[7+6=13]

Winning this season is important. More important than trying to game the lottery.

 

I respect your opinion so can you explain why you think that?  The obvious reasons for me are mindset and development.  

 

I think winning is important, just not that much.  This current team isn't going anywhere next year either, IMO.  I'd imagine we're going to make a couple of trades and this will likely effect winning anyway.  I'm not interested in an winning by subtraction after Kane is gone, etc.

 

What I'm hoping out of the remainder of this season (original thread topic) are:

 

Eichel to keep getting points - I think it's just good for his psyche to be one of the better players in the league.

 

Reinhart to find/identify himself (continue to) - the future Sabres team needs him to develop

 

Risto to stay on an upward trajectory - same as Sam, this team needs Risto to be an excellent defender and be an assist machine on offense.  I'm not too worried about him.  Defensman will frustrate you and he does, completely normal.  I have long believed Risto's passion and play will shine on a winning team.  He's an emotional player and it hasn't looked like he's having a whole lot of fun this year.

 

Kane - I think it's critical Jbot gets great value in a trade.  This may be the most important thing that the Sabres do or don't do for our future.

 

Housley - I'd like to better understand him as a coach before seasons end.  Right now, I literally have no idea what I'm supposed to be seeing in terms of his philosophy.  

[LGR4GM]

I think that learning to win is a real thing. There's a level you have to consistently be at to win in pro sports. To be there, there are tons of factors. I'd like to see signs that the core is figuring that out. It will make life far easier for any prospect coming in because it will just be "The way we do things" or culture if you like the buzzword. Drafting 4th instead of 6 because we lost an extra 5 games just seems useless.

[Randall Flagg]

I'd be hesitant to read much into last night's defeat of Edmonton, which is a terrible team -- just as, if I were a Dallas fan, I'd be hesitant to read much into their butt-whuppin' of the Sabres the other day.

I think it's much more important that

a.) They showed up against, and beat, a competitive Calgary team that DID come to play

b.) This followed up that win the next night. We've seen this team respond to embarrassment with a good game, followed by letting their guard right back down. Didn't happen last night. 

 

Let's keep it up tomorrow boys. The teams aren't the strongest in the world, but the Edmonton-Calgary-Vancouver road trip is perhaps the second hardest to the California trip, or the one that always takes us through St. Louis and Dallas (which isn't as consistent as the other two so I won't count it here). 

 

I don't know the last time they swept this one, but it has been at least 15 years as that was the first win in Calgary since 2003. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Learning to win is a thing, but learning to compete game in and game out, each shift is actually more important.  The compete attitude leads to winning when the team has enough talent, which we don't.

 

You ask if drafting 4th vs 6th makes a big difference.  The better question is the difference between between drafting in the top 5 vs drafting 7th or 8th or even as low as tenth considering how close the teams are right now with the 4th -10th worst records are.  If the Sabres get really hot we could go from drafting an almost certain top 6 forward or top 4 D (with a top 5 pick) to drafting a JAG.  That is a huge difference for a team that struggles to score or consistently get the puck out of it's own zone.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-nhl-draft-pick-value-1.786131

 

However, as I wrote in earlier, we are in a dog fight for 31st with Ott and AZ.  It's highly unlikely that we manage to catch a team like Mon, Det, or Fla in the standing, as they currently sit 9-11 pts ahead of us.   So the good news this may be the season we get our cake and eat it also.  Because of our putrid start we have the luxury of playing hard down the stretch and still get a top 5 pick. 

[7+6=13]

I think that learning to win is a real thing. There's a level you have to consistently be at to win in pro sports. To be there, there are tons of factors. I'd like to see signs that the core is figuring that out. It will make life far easier for any prospect coming in because it will just be "The way we do things" or culture if you like the buzzword. Drafting 4th instead of 6 because we lost an extra 5 games just seems useless.

 

Ok, I could get there.  

 

I don't think we're on polar opposites sides of thought.  I guess I just see less value in winning 5 more games than you and I see value in being up a couple spots in this years draft.  The premise being the core is 3 players from the current roster.  As I mentioned Eichel is my primary concern - I'd like Reinhart to be a valuable player on the eventual team - I believe Risto will be there when we really need him.  

 

I'm hoping in 2-3 years O'reilly is a 3rd line center and Okposo a solid 31-32 year old role player - and not part of the core.  

 

I hope the core is Eichel, Reinhart, Casey, Guhle, Ullmark, Risto, then a combination from:  another player or two in our system /player or pick from Kane trade/ the draft pick this year.  Then in 4 years building through free agency also we're ready to contend for many years.  

[irregularly irregular]

I respect your opinion so can you explain why you think that?  The obvious reasons for me are mindset and development.  

 

I think winning is important, just not that much.  This current team isn't going anywhere next year either, IMO.  I'd imagine we're going to make a couple of trades and this will likely effect winning anyway.  I'm not interested in an winning by subtraction after Kane is gone, etc.

 

What I'm hoping out of the remainder of this season (original thread topic) are:

 

Eichel to keep getting points - I think it's just good for his psyche to be one of the better players in the league.

 

Reinhart to find/identify himself (continue to) - the future Sabres team needs him to develop

 

Risto to stay on an upward trajectory - same as Sam, this team needs Risto to be an excellent defender and be an assist machine on offense.  I'm not too worried about him.  Defensman will frustrate you and he does, completely normal.  I have long believed Risto's passion and play will shine on a winning team.  He's an emotional player and it hasn't looked like he's having a whole lot of fun this year.

 

Kane - I think it's critical Jbot gets great value in a trade.  This may be the most important thing that the Sabres do or don't do for our future.

 

Housley - I'd like to better understand him as a coach before seasons end.  Right now, I literally have no idea what I'm supposed to be seeing in terms of his philosophy.  

 

Hopefully it is addition of a player that actually complements Jack, rather than sucks the life out of most plays where the puck ends up on his stick. Kane is at his best when on Jack's wing, but only when he scores. Otherwise, it is often a wasted attempt. Subtracting first and then adding could give the first line and exponential return.

[7+6=13]

Hopefully it is addition of a player that actually complements Jack, rather than sucks the life out of most plays where the puck ends up on his stick. Kane is at his best when on Jack's wing, but only when he scores. Otherwise, it is often a wasted attempt. Subtracting first and then adding could give the first line and exponential return.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're saying and am positive I don't know how it could relate to my post.

[LGR4GM]

I think part of my thought process is that the draft looks solid for picks 1-6. Dahlin, Svechnikov, Zadina, Tkachuk, Boqvist, Wahlstrom.

[spndnchz]

There was a pick a pic that hit me “ core” yesterday. Lemme find it

[Taro T]

There was a pick a pic that hit me “ core” yesterday. Lemme find it

Nuts. It was talk like a pirate day yesterday & nobody told me?!?! :angry:

 

 

 

:p

[erickompositör72]

other than for psychological reasons, it does not benefit this team to win.

 

Yeah, I wanna go forward into the next decade with the basket-case core. Yay!

 

Not sure the relevance of the latter part of your post

[Thorny]

I'm torn Liger.  I totally understand what you're saying that this team needs to learn how and feel winning. 

 

My problem is I don't see more than 6-7 players on the current roster that will be with us when we'll potentially be ready to be a playoff team.

 

We desperately need this years draft to produce a very good player for us - and quicker than it normally takes.  We'll need that player to be the 20-21 year old ready in 2-3 years.  Which is how long I think it'll take for the Sabres to have an opportunity at playoff contention and hopefully beyond.  I want to draft as low as possible.  I actually hated typing that. 

 

Am I wrong or making sense at all?

 

Likely. But what matters is who those players are.

 

Those 6-7 players are crucial to the future success of the Buffalo Sabres. If Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, etc light the world on fire in this next stretch, and we win some games, that bodes very, very well for the team’s future.

 

That draft pick coming into a confident, winning environment has a much better chance of success and proper development. Surrounded by players who have shown themselves to be growing as hockey players bodes well for us.

 

Besides, it’s a deep draft. What better year to not stress about getting some wins. There’ll be a good player, a Boqvist or a Hughes, waiting for us wherever we pick.

[Taro T]

Likely. But what matters is who those players are.

Those 6-7 players are crucial to the future success of the Buffalo Sabres. If Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, etc light the world on fire in this next stretch, and we win some games, that bodes very, very well for the team’s future.

That draft pick coming into a confident, winning environment has a much better chance of success and proper development. Surrounded by players who have shown themselves to be growing as hockey players bodes well for us.

Besides, it’s a deep draft. What better year to not stress about getting some wins. There’ll be a good player, a Boqvist or a Hughes, waiting for us wherever we pick.

Really hoping the Sabres don't end up w/ Hughes. Not sure what it is, but there's just something about his game that doesn't seem right.

[Thorny]

Really hoping the Sabres don't end up w/ Hughes. Not sure what it is, but there's just something about his game that doesn't seem right.

That’s interesting. I get the majority of my upcoming draft prospect info from this board, and I’ve heard mostly good things about Hughes around here, but I really don’t know much about him.

 

He looked like a great skater at the WJC, but that’s all I’ve got. Can you ball park what it is you may be seeing?

Edited January 25, 2018 by Thorny

[Taro T]

That’s interesting. I get the majority of my upcoming draft prospect info from this board, and I’ve heard mostly good things about Hughes around here, but I really don’t know much about him.

He looked like a great skater at the WJC, but that’s all I’ve got. Can you ball park what it is you may be seeing?

Not really, sadly. Just seeing him live, there was something missing. Can't put my finger on it. Hope the feeling is wrong. Would like him to be good, especially as he might end up the Sabres pick. Didn't like his game in the US end. (But wasn't sold on Tkachuk either. Maybe have developed an anti-American bias. :lol: ) Edited January 25, 2018 by Taro T

[gilbert11]

Every year we go without playoffs it’s getting worse, so yes.

Can the Sabres challenge the Bills 17 year drought? Not likely when more than half of the NHL teams make the playoffs. Would be more pathetic if they did.

[LGR4GM]

Not really, sadly. Just seeing him live, there was something missing. Can't put my finger on it. Hope the feeling is wrong. Would like him to be good, especially as he might end up the Sabres pick. Didn't like his game in the US end. (But wasn't sold on Tkachuk either. Maybe have developed an anti-American bias. :lol: )

Tkachuk's skating worries me. His overall talent worries me.  He looks like a 2nd line winger.  Maybe I am just overthinking it but that is my conclusion watching him. Zadina on the other hand looks like a first line winger with crazy skills.  Really depends on what the scout thinks though.

 

I've only recently started looking at the back half of the top 10. Quinn Hughes is good but you are right that something just seems odd about his play.  I don't think his top end speed is as fast as people think and I think that he stops skating hard after his first 4-5 strides. He sort of just skates at a level to maintain that speed.  His passing seems okay.  I haven't seen him shoot a lot.  He's little at only 5'10" and he is old for the draft class.  (I classify old as being born between September 16 - December in your draft year. Middle is January-March. Younger is April-June. Young July-September.)  

Edited January 25, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[rakish]

Tkachuk's skating worries me. His overall talent worries me.  He looks like a 2nd line winger.  Maybe I am just overthinking it but that is my conclusion watching him. Zadina on the other hand looks like a first line winger with crazy skills.  Really depends on what the scout thinks though.

 

I've only recently started looking at the back half of the top 10. Quinn Hughes is good but you are right that something just seems odd about his play.  I don't think his top end speed is as fast as people think and I think that he stops skating hard after his first 4-5 strides. He sort of just skates at a level to maintain that speed.  His passing seems okay.  I haven't seen him shoot a lot.  He's little at only 5'10" and he is old for the draft class.  (I classify old as being born between September 16 and November 30th in your draft year. Middle is December-March. Younger is April-June. Young July-September.)  

 

Consider moving your old and middle line a month. The December born player has been the youngest player on his team his entire life, the chances that a late round December born player gets better are pretty good, and he resembles the November/October player in this way. He doesn't resemble the January player at all, who has been the oldest player on his team his entire life. The chances of a late round January player getting better are close to zero.

 

This has a much bigger effect as you go down the draft, as it never really mattered to Eichel or McDavid when they were born, they were always the best player. So the importance of the old/middle/younger/young curves.

[LGR4GM]

Consider moving your old and middle line a month. The December born player has been the youngest player on his team his entire life, the chances that a late round December born player gets better are pretty good, and he resembles the November/October player in this way. He doesn't resemble the January player at all, who has been the oldest player on his team his entire life. The chances of a late round January player getting better are close to zero.

 

This has a much bigger effect as you go down the draft, as it never really mattered to Eichel or McDavid when they were born, they were always the best player. So the importance of the old/middle/younger/young curves.

Will do and good to know. 

[7+6=13]

Likely. But what matters is who those players are.

 

Those 6-7 players are crucial to the future success of the Buffalo Sabres. If Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, etc light the world on fire in this next stretch, and we win some games, that bodes very, very well for the team’s future.

 

That draft pick coming into a confident, winning environment has a much better chance of success and proper development. Surrounded by players who have shown themselves to be growing as hockey players bodes well for us.

 

Besides, it’s a deep draft. What better year to not stress about getting some wins. There’ll be a good player, a Boqvist or a Hughes, waiting for us wherever we pick.

 

I've discussed some who are likely part of that 6-7 for two reasons, one being contracts will probably dictate, and the second is my personal hope.  We agree on Eichel, Reinhart and Risto - then I'd add O'Reilly (hope),  Okposo (contract).  We have 4 players under contract currently for the 2020 season, so I'll add the possibilites/hope for Antipin, ERod and Baptiste.  

 

I'm just not convinced winning a handful more games this year effects that 2020 team - more than having a lower pick.  It could, because obviously the say 6th player could be better than the 4th player drafted, but I'd rather JBot have that choice in player.  

 

Again, I'm not fervent on losing.  I am and we all are done with that thought process.  I'm just making the argument that it may not be the long term best thing as we sit today.  Especially when it's likely we'll downgrade anyway after a trade or two in this season.  

 

To sum up.  I'm ok with Eichel and Reinhart having personal success without necessarily a win because I'm not worried about Risto's psyche and I don't care about O'Reilly's, Okposo's, Antipin's, ERod's and/or Baptiste's enough to slide up in the draft.  Most of the rest of the players will not be here in 2020.  Because of the massive turn around we're about to experience - this current roster won't be the crescendo of winning to welcome our young players.   

[LGR4GM]

We've past the point where losing is an acceptable outcome. We need to start learning what it takes, night and night out as a team, to win NHL games.