What Should The Sabres Goals Be For The Rest of The Season?

[Drunkard]

I have zero interest in a heroic run to 9th or anything close to that. I'd prefer they finished dead last to ensure no worse than the 4th pick but I won't piss and moan too much if they manage to play .500 hockey the rest of the way, as long as they still manage to finish no better than 29th. It's been shown time and time again that momentum doesn't carry over from the previous season. If these bums still need to learn to win, they can start in October and not wait until half a season has been flushed down the drain.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Alkoholist

[spndnchz]

There was a pick a pic that hit me “ core” yesterday. Lemme find it

Eichel-O’Reilly-Reinhart-Okposo-Ristolainen

[Weave]

I've discussed some who are likely part of that 6-7 for two reasons, one being contracts will probably dictate, and the second is my personal hope. We agree on Eichel, Reinhart and Risto - then I'd add O'Reilly (hope), Okposo (contract). We have 4 players under contract currently for the 2020 season, so I'll add the possibilites/hope for Antipin, ERod and Baptiste.

 

I'm just not convinced winning a handful more games this year effects that 2020 team - more than having a lower pick. It could, because obviously the say 6th player could be better than the 4th player drafted, but I'd rather JBot have that choice in player.

 

Again, I'm not fervent on losing. I am and we all are done with that thought process. I'm just making the argument that it may not be the long term best thing as we sit today. Especially when it's likely we'll downgrade anyway after a trade or two in this season.

 

To sum up. I'm ok with Eichel and Reinhart having personal success without necessarily a win because I'm not worried about Risto's psyche and I don't care about O'Reilly's, Okposo's, Antipin's, ERod's and/or Baptiste's enough to slide up in the draft. Most of the rest of the players will not be here in 2020. Because of the massive turn around we're about to experience - this current roster won't be the crescendo of winning to welcome our young players.

The problem is, if you only look at long term, it is always in your teams best interest to draft near the top of the round. It is in Nashville’s best long term interest to draft top 4 as well.

 

At some point you have to flip the switch and commit to winning now, sign the good players you have, sign some more on the FA market, take the kids you’ve already picked, and try to win.

[North Buffalo]

In the mean time the Sabres need to learn how to pass as a team. Not talking, Jack, Ok, Sam or RoR. But the D except Antipin who seems to get it and the top two. But as a team on the move. Hand eye coordination drills with passing... Zemgus... EK... ERod... this goes for you. Learn how to cycle and stay on your feet. Teach forcheckers how to hit and finish. Oh the list goes on.

[inkman]

In the mean time the Sabres need to learn how to pass as a team. Not talking, Jack, Ok, Sam or RoR. But the D except Antipin who seems to get it and the top two. But as a team on the move. Hand eye coordination drills with passing... Zemgus... EK... ERod... this goes for you. Learn how to cycle and stay on your feet. Teach forcheckers how to hit and finish. Oh the list goes on.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think passing can be appreciably improved with teaching. You either have it or you don't.

[North Buffalo]

The vision part maybe not, but actual passing... sauce... stick on puck... touch passes... quick movement on breakouts yes. That takes practice both for the passer and the catcher. Accuracy can be practiced.

[7+6=13]

The problem is, if you only look at long term, it is always in your teams best interest to draft near the top of the round. It is in Nashville’s best long term interest to draft top 4 as well.

 

At some point you have to flip the switch and commit to winning now, sign the good players you have, sign some more on the FA market, take the kids you’ve already picked, and try to win.

 

Not a huge argument from me on your points but I think the timing is off.  This team is very bad with little on it to develop into futures.  I don't believe a competitive team can be constructed using half of it's players.  I agree the switch eventually has to be flipped but it would be like using a reading lamp on the beach mid morning to need it now.  

 

We're not there and we're also constructed to not be there.  We have 6 guys signed for 2019 and 4 guys signed for the 2020 season.  Nashville has 13 and 8 respectively.  

 

Our team is built this year and partially next with contract commitments and several bad ones - and it's been decided this built team can't win.  It'll be purged and re-built starting small next year then bigger in 2019 and the total makeover completed by 2020.  Then we'll be ready to field a competitive team if JBot does it correctly (obviously subjective).  I think winning begins to be important (to the organization) - long term in parallel with the rebuild.  I'm willing to have it suck the rest of this year for the few players that will be here.

Edited January 25, 2018 by 7+6=13

[Weave]

Nice. Jack will be the youngest of our core at 23 when we are fielding a competitive team. And statistically he’ll zenith in 3 years after. That’s a helluva window.

 

I love strategic losing.

[North Buffalo]

Im thinking Sabres have more talent in the pipeline than most of us think. Again though i think your timeline may be a little late by a year. My theory assumes Middlestadt Ghule and Olloffson plus no 1 pick play up next year and make contributions and Malone and the other Euro center develop in the A. And one or 2 of Bailey, Fasching and Baptiste can play third line minutes. That is 5 or six up plus Borgen and Firzgerald contribute in the A next year. That is the start of some future depth. Im thinking one more year of sucking but not bottom next year and draft guys this next year to be indoctrinated into system. That being said a year one way or another with the core developing and I think I can see it being good.

[Drunkard]

Nice. Jack will be the youngest of our core at 23 when we are fielding a competitive team. And statistically he’ll zenith in 3 years after. That’s a helluva window.

 

I love strategic losing.

 

That's on the Sabres, not the fans. Most of us were expecting a playoff push last year and even though we thought there would be bumps along the way in adjusting to Housley's new system, I think everyone was hoping for us to be a bubble team this year.

 

I understand people wanting to put some lipstick on this pig of a season, but this year is already lost and even if we won our last 10 games of the season, it's not going to provide carry over momentum to next season.

[LGR4GM]

Nice. Jack will be the youngest of our core at 23 when we are fielding a competitive team. And statistically he’ll zenith in 3 years after. That’s a helluva window.

 

I love strategic losing.

Jack will peak at 26?

 

Crosby won 2 of his 3 cups at what age?

Edited January 25, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[Weave]

Jack will peak at 26?

 

Crosby won 2 of his 3 cups at what age?

 

I can't wait for the fun when Jack's next contract is up.  Do we move him at the deadline and make sure we get value for the asset, or risk him becoming an old man in a Sabre's uniform.

[7+6=13]

Nice. Jack will be the youngest of our core at 23 when we are fielding a competitive team. And statistically he’ll zenith in 3 years after. That’s a helluva window.

 

I love strategic losing.

 

It's not strategic losing it's reality from the re-build gone wrong based on how this team has performed.  We're very very lucky though because we're not stuck for more than a couple more years.  We have cap relief coming,  bad contracts leaving,  the asset in Kane, a low pick this year and a reasonable amount of prospects one looking very promising in Casey.

 

Obviously JBot needs to steer the ship properly.   We're very fortunate to go from a rebuild that was supposed to be complete last year - to having an opportunity to start fresh this quick is remarkable.  

[LGR4GM]

I can't wait for the fun when Jack's next contract is up. Do we move him at the deadline and make sure we get value for the asset, or risk him becoming an old man in a Sabre's uniform.

If he's healthy and producing you re sign him. Stop with the hyperbole.

[Weave]

If he's healthy and producing you re sign him. Stop with the hyperbole.

 

[Thorny]

I have zero interest in a heroic run to 9th or anything close to that. I'd prefer they finished dead last to ensure no worse than the 4th pick but I won't piss and moan too much if they manage to play .500 hockey the rest of the way, as long as they still manage to finish no better than 29th. It's been shown time and time again that momentum doesn't carry over from the previous season. If these bums still need to learn to win, they can start in October and not wait until half a season has been flushed down the drain.

It sure worked for the Jets last season.

 

It’s not about momentum, it’s about the blossoming of talent. We want to see that.

 

Nice. Jack will be the youngest of our core at 23 when we are fielding a competitive team. And statistically he’ll zenith in 3 years after. That’s a helluva window.

I love strategic losing.

This is a big thing. Maximizing Jack’s prime is the most important thing. He’s the franchise. A strong run to finish this year, indicating a greater likelihood of a good team next year, would be wonderful news.

 

On any given night Jack can and has shown the ability to produce like the best player in the world. Let’s get him in the playoffs.

[dudacek]

Win as many as we can and never look back

[SwampD]

Win as many as we can and never look back

Afunkingmen!!!!

[erickompositör72]

That's on the Sabres, not the fans. Most of us were expecting a playoff push last year and even though we thought there would be bumps along the way in adjusting to Housley's new system, I think everyone was hoping for us to be a bubble team this year.

 

I understand people wanting to put some lipstick on this pig of a season, but this year is already lost and even if we won our last 10 games of the season, it's not going to provide carry over momentum to next season.

 

 

Completely disagree. Not only could it provide carryover momentum, but it will build a trust between Phil, Jack, and the rest of the core, that they have a formula that will work. Jack, as the leader, will be able to sell this formula to any new faces in the locker room with genuine belief.

 

 

Think about it. We hoped we'd be a bubble team this year. What "good" would that have done us? The "good" it would have done is show growth.

 

Why wouldn't it be just as satisfying to show that growth, albeit with a late start? What if we play the second half of the season like a bubble team?

 

I'll tell you why some people don't like it. Because they started daydreaming about the draft already. It's a fool's errand. If we played as a "bubble" team since October, would you be talking about how we "screwed ourselves for the draft?" No! You'd be talking about what great improvement it is. Why can't you say the same, even though it took a while to set in? Because of your draft wet dreams. Get over them.

 

Some people here seem to actually want either playoffs or 30th place. I think that train of thought is... well... nevermind- nfreeman will call me "obnoxious" if I say  :P

[ubkev]

Win as many as we can and never look back

Fcukin-A!

[LGR4GM]

The Amerks video provided a glimpse of what I am referring too at this stage. It takes a lot of work to make the NHL and even more work to stay and succeed there.  They need to start seeing that if the work X hard in practice it translates to the ice. They can only learn it through experience. Win now and win often. 

[Drunkard]

Completely disagree. Not only could it provide carryover momentum, but it will build a trust between Phil, Jack, and the rest of the core, that they have a formula that will work. Jack, as the leader, will be able to sell this formula to any new faces in the locker room with genuine belief.

 

 

Think about it. We hoped we'd be a bubble team this year. What "good" would that have done us? The "good" it would have done is show growth.

 

Why wouldn't it be just as satisfying to show that growth, albeit with a late start? What if we play the second half of the season like a bubble team?

 

I'll tell you why some people don't like it. Because they started daydreaming about the draft already. It's a fool's errand. If we played as a "bubble" team since October, would you be talking about how we "screwed ourselves for the draft?" No! You'd be talking about what great improvement it is. Why can't you say the same, even though it took a while to set in? Because of your draft wet dreams. Get over them.

 

Some people here seem to actually want either playoffs or 30th place. I think that train of thought is... well... nevermind- nfreeman will call me "obnoxious" if I say  :P

 

There is no such thing as carry over momentum from season to season. The offseason is too long for that to be possible. Hell, even shorter periods have the ability to cancel out momentum. We just played a team (Calgary) that had won something like 5 or 6 straight games before their bye week, then lost 2 or 3 in a row after it was over. So we're supposed to expect momentum to carry over for 6 months when Calgary couldn't get it to carry over for 5 days? That's some mighty wishful thinking there.

 

How many times have we seen a team sweep their opponent in the playoffs while their next opponent plays a pure dog fight of a 6 or 7 game series and then the sweeping team comes out after 5 or 6 days off and just get spanked by the team who won their elimination game a couple of nights before? What happened to the sweeping team's momentum there? Gone in a week or less.

 

While the concept of momentum may exist, it sure doesn't have a long shelf life, certainly not the 6 months many of you guys seem to be pinning your hopes to. Sure you can go through all the teams in all the leagues and find some teams that ended seasons hot and started the next season just as hot, but for every example you can find like that, I'm sure I could find one (or likely more) where the opposite happened. When you throw all the data into the pool, the idea of season to season momentum doesn't really hold statistical water.

 

As for your other point, I wouldn't be annoyed if they had been playing like a playoff bubble team since October, but that's because they'd actually be on the playoff bubble. While the team isn't mathematically eliminated from the playoffs the way points get added to the standings thanks in part to all the loser points, they are effectively eliminated and the fact that they've waited until any hope for the playoffs was essential dead to act like they finally have a pulse doesn't inspire me to believe they've turned some corner. It means they wilted when it mattered and they couldn't find a way to actually perform until it didn't matter, hence the heroic run to 9th mantra.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Alkoholist

[7+6=13]

Completely disagree. Not only could it provide carryover momentum, but it will build a trust between Phil, Jack, and the rest of the core, that they have a formula that will work. Jack, as the leader, will be able to sell this formula to any new faces in the locker room with genuine belief.

 

 

Think about it. We hoped we'd be a bubble team this year. What "good" would that have done us? The "good" it would have done is show growth.

 

Why wouldn't it be just as satisfying to show that growth, albeit with a late start? What if we play the second half of the season like a bubble team?

 

I'll tell you why some people don't like it. Because they started daydreaming about the draft already. It's a fool's errand. If we played as a "bubble" team since October, would you be talking about how we "screwed ourselves for the draft?" No! You'd be talking about what great improvement it is. Why can't you say the same, even though it took a while to set in? Because of your draft wet dreams. Get over them.

 

Some people here seem to actually want either playoffs or 30th place. I think that train of thought is... well... nevermind- nfreeman will call me "obnoxious" if I say  :P

 

I won't speak for Alko - whom you responded to but here's the distinction for me.  I believed and wanted them to be a playoff bubble team - and yes, it was to keep moving forward.  They didn't - they're worse.  It has been a quit shocking season.  

 

It's got to be blown up again, I can't believe it.  So after a deep breath from enduring this season so far - next steps - we can easily be a completely different roster in 2 years and draft picks can help.

 

edit: Obviously a little harder for me to make this case with how they've been playing the last 3 games.  Geesh, where's that been?  Tale of 2 different teams.  So maybe I'm nuts.

[dudacek]

It’s not about momentum.

It’s about convincing the beaten-down psyches of young players who have known nothing but losing that they can win, building a confidence that they can lean on entering next season.

[Drunkard]

It’s not about momentum.

It’s about convincing the beaten-down psyches of young players who have known nothing but losing that they can win, building a confidence that they can lean on entering next season.

 

And that's fine. They've been playing well lately and good for them. If it builds their confidence and proves to them that if the team is willing to pull their heads out of their they are capable of playing competent hockey, then that's a positive. I wouldn't pin my hopes to it making a difference come October though.