Fan Frustrations: Sabres Edition

[inkman]

My frustration is with many fans not willing, or seemingly not willing, to give the players, coaches and management some time.

 

There has been much change in a short period of time.

 

That and it is very apparent that the roster is not quite where it needs to be yet, but that also takes time.

This becomes more frustrating watching Vegas from afar. All new players and coaches and they are killing it. So what the hell is wrong with the Sabres? I'm worried that the answer to that is unfixable.

[LTS]

I want the team to perform better than they are.  The defense is just not good enough and that's the biggest problem right now.

 

As for everything else...

 

I've watched people on here pine for Todd McLellan, lament losing out on McDavid, talk about how playing Kings hockey was stupid, and more.

 

Right now McLellan is in charge of a team that is below us in the standings and by accounts of people on here should be far above the Sabres.

Right now the Kings, with almost the same roster as last year, are at the top of the league (they only changed a coach and GM)

Right now Jack Eichel has 3 less points than Matthews and 1 more than McDavid and Crosby, the saviours of Canada hockey.

 

It's a highly frustrated fan base that just wants something to change even if it's not necessarily an improvement.  I'm reading comparison to football teams shedding players without accounting for what is guaranteed money in the NFL and the NHL and how they are different.

 

There are comments on how all but 2-3 players on this team need to go.  A move which would certainly bring about another 10 years of mediocre or worse hockey.

 

I think there is quite a bit of player evaluation going on right now.  It's not just about how a player is on the ice but whether or not that player is going to listen to the coaching staff and work to improve their game.  I can hypothesize on reasons why certain players are on the ice but most don't want to hear any potential reason other than what they want to believe.

 

So, for me, I'm just backing off all of it.  I'll watch the games and chime in here or there but it's tiring battling on here when people have gotten to the point where they want to question the validity of the entire franchise's history.

[LGR4GM]

I want the team to perform better than they are.  The defense is just not good enough and that's the biggest problem right now.

 

As for everything else...

 

I've watched people on here pine for Todd McLellan, lament losing out on McDavid, talk about how playing Kings hockey was stupid, and more.

 

Right now McLellan is in charge of a team that is below us in the standings and by accounts of people on here should be far above the Sabres.

Right now the Kings, with almost the same roster as last year, are at the top of the league (they only changed a coach and GM)

Right now Jack Eichel has 3 less points than Matthews and 1 more than McDavid and Crosby, the saviours of Canada hockey.

 

It's a highly frustrated fan base that just wants something to change even if it's not necessarily an improvement.  I'm reading comparison to football teams shedding players without accounting for what is guaranteed money in the NFL and the NHL and how they are different.

 

There are comments on how all but 2-3 players on this team need to go.  A move which would certainly bring about another 10 years of mediocre or worse hockey.

 

I think there is quite a bit of player evaluation going on right now.  It's not just about how a player is on the ice but whether or not that player is going to listen to the coaching staff and work to improve their game.  I can hypothesize on reasons why certain players are on the ice but most don't want to hear any potential reason other than what they want to believe.

 

So, for me, I'm just backing off all of it.  I'll watch the games and chime in here or there but it's tiring battling on here when people have gotten to the point where they want to question the validity of the entire franchise's history.

Yea this is getting annoying. When people suddenly post "Hey they should just cut player x and be done" that isn't how the nhl works and I am so tired of seeing it lately. 

 

I think this is so important. Botterill and Housley have to see who wants to work and improve as well as who can. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

I want to see steady improvement over the course of the year, the arrival of some ready Rochester kids or low-key acquisitions to address depth issues during the second half of the season and moves either to fill the most obvious holes at the deadline or at least set ourselves up to fill them over the summer.

 

That’s pretty realistic considering what we’ve seen in terms of upheaval over the past six months.

 

I will be frustrated if these things don’t happen.

It sucks we aren’t further ahead in the process, but you can’t blame Housley and Botterill, and there is nothing to be gained from blaming others.

Edited October 30, 2017 by dudacek

[Radar]

I want to see steady improvement over the course of the year, the arrival of some ready Rochester kids or low-key acquisitions to address depth issues during the second half of the season and moves either to fill the most obvious holes at the deadline or at least set ourselves up to fill them over the summer.

That’s pretty realistic considering what we’ve seen in terms of upheaval over the past six months.

I will be frustrated if these things don’t happen.

It sucks we aren’t further ahead in the process, but you can’t blame Housley and Botterill, and there is nothing to be gained from blaming others.

Good post. This is my feeling as well. I want to stay out of free agency though and continue to build through the draft and trades if they make sense. I like the trade for Scandella and Pommers. Edited October 30, 2017 by Radar

[nfreeman]

The lack of Sam doing, anything.

 

The way our roster is designed, we need our "centres" to play well, as our wings aren't there yet, so if they falter then so does the team.

 

Reino has been a major disappointment.

 

Dudacek got me all excited about the alleged hockey savant, laser passer, World Junior legend -- and that guy hasn't shown up a-tall. 

 

The story of course isn't written yet, but there's a grave and gathering danger that Reino is a 40-45 point guy in a good year, and a 35-point guy in a down year, and that's it.

 

 

It's the power play for me.  Also I generally agree with you; I'm not ready to jump off a bridge (or to throw Housley off of one).

 

This.

 

 

I'm beginning to think maybe not.

 

The contracts given to Moulson and, to a lesser degree, Okposo are not good.

 

His abilities as a talent evaluator, I'm sure, are good to very good. But I don't think he really knew how to manage assets and cap space.

 

Aud -- you are far from the only one who has posted this, but I continue to ask why anyone thinks this.  He came from a consistently mediocre organization in Ottawa, built a lousy team here, gave Moulson and KO huge contracts (appreciating that it's unfair to evaluate KO just yet given his serious illness last summer) and didn't find any diamonds in the rough.

[Mustache of God]

At this point everything about this team frustrates me. The money we have tied up with Okposo, Bogo and Moulson means we won't be able to retain Kane, whose been our best player not named Jack Eichel.

 

I'm frustrated that the defense can't contribute. I'm frustrated that the Sabres can't string together solid showings on multiple nights.

 

As I write this out i think what I'm frustrated about the most is the lip-service we've been hearing for the past x amount of years "We have to play smarter, I have to be better, etc." The words aren't backed up by action and are now rotted and hollow.

[Pokey Jones]

Consistent work ethic and attitude.

 

I mean we're all frustrated, but I'm glad they're having a "fun" day. http://buffalonews.com/2017/10/29/sabres-take-a-sunday-fun-day-approach-to-stay-positive/

[inkman]

Consistent work ethic and attitude.

 

The fans low hanging fruit as it can't be quantified or measured by any reliable means. It just "looks like it". I'm not here to tell you they can't improve in those areas, it's just a little too easy to call out.

[Pokey Jones]

The fans low hanging fruit as it can't be quantified or measured by any reliable means. It just "looks like it". I'm not here to tell you they can't improve in those areas, it's just a little too easy to call out.

Maybe, but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

I saw decent effort levels in the SJ game. But haven't seen that every night and not from all players. It's a building block. You create a hard working culture and mentality first, and then you work on the finer points once you have that culture in place. That leads to success long term. 

[ubkev]

Eeesh. This is not only unduly harsh, but it's analytically flawed.

 

From what we learned, the guy damn near died a few months ago. I'm eager to see him return to form, but the fact that he hasn't is very much understandable.

I understand that he was hospitalized. From what the doctors here have said, it takes quite a while to recover. If he's still recovering then why is he playing? Don't play, get healthy. Cause right now he's an anchor wrapped around any line he's on.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I understand that he was hospitalized. From what the doctors here have said, it takes quite a while to recover. If he's still recovering then why is he playing? Don't play, get healthy. Cause right now he's an anchor wrapped around any line he's on.

I agree.  If 100% healthy play, if not 100% then sit go on IR and get healthy.   Jbot maybe should do him the favor of putting him in the pressbox for a few games.  

[dudacek]

I think Okposo is “healthy” I just don’t think he’s “right”

In other words, he is past the medical condition that sent him to hospital and any health risks associated with it.

 

His issues may be fitness related, or some sort of emotional hangover, but it’s pretty clear the Sabres have decided the best course of action is to play his way through it. You might have a better argument for sitting him if Moulson or Griffith or Josefson or someone on the farm was playing better, but that isn’t happening yet.

 

 

I think he’s been better the best few games. His timing remains off, but he has been more involved in the play.

Edited October 30, 2017 by dudacek

[PASabreFan]

The fans low hanging fruit as it can't be quantified or measured by any reliable means. It just "looks like it". I'm not here to tell you they can't improve in those areas, it's just a little too easy to call out.

But Phil said in the Snooze today that he thinks the compete level has to be higher in practice, and when they have practiced at a high compete level, it has carried over into games. So there's that.

[inkman]

But Phil said in the Snooze today that he thinks the compete level has to be higher in practice, and when they have practiced at a high compete level, it has carried over into games. So there's that.

Everyone should do jail time that utters the phrase compete. It's just stupid. So many other words that make more sense and are actual words used in the form they were intended. Instead everyone sounds like Razor.

[That Aud Smell]

Aud -- you are far from the only one who has posted this, but I continue to ask why anyone thinks this. He came from a consistently mediocre organization in Ottawa, built a lousy team here, gave Moulson and KO huge contracts (appreciating that it's unfair to evaluate KO just yet given his serious illness last summer) and didn't find any diamonds in the rough.

Ya, okay FGMTM sucks at talent evaluation too.

 

Ha.

 

I dunno. I read his resume at one point with all his hits (and purported should’ve hits, but his guy wasn’t chosen), and it was pretty impressive.

[LTS]

Reino has been a major disappointment.

 

Dudacek got me all excited about the alleged hockey savant, laser passer, World Junior legend -- and that guy hasn't shown up a-tall. 

 

The story of course isn't written yet, but there's a grave and gathering danger that Reino is a 40-45 point guy in a good year, and a 35-point guy in a down year, and that's it.

 

 

 

This.

 

 

 

Aud -- you are far from the only one who has posted this, but I continue to ask why anyone thinks this.  He came from a consistently mediocre organization in Ottawa, built a lousy team here, gave Moulson and KO huge contracts (appreciating that it's unfair to evaluate KO just yet given his serious illness last summer) and didn't find any diamonds in the rough.

 

Well, let's see.

 

Players on the current Ottawa Roster drafted while Murray was AGM:

 

Erik Karlsson - 2008 (15th overall - plenty of D drafted ahead of him including Bogosian and Myers)

Zach Smith - 2008 - (79th overall)

Mike Hoffman - 2009 - (130th overall)

Mark Stone - 2010 (178th overall)

J.G. Pageau - 2011 (96th overall)

Chris Wideman - 2009 (100th overall)

Ryan Dzingel - 2011 (204th overall)

Cody Ceci - 2012 (15th overall)

Fredrik Claesson - 2011 (126th overall)

Ben Harpur - 2013 (108th overall)

Max McCormick - 2011 (171st overall)

 

That's 11 players drafted while Murray was in charge of talent evaluation.  There are 2 1st rounders in there and the rest are from deep in the draft.

 

Last year's Ottawa team which performed quite well were led in scoring by: Karlsson (1), Hoffman(2), Stone(4), Pageau (6), Smith (7), Dzingel (8)

 

Those Senators have Ottawa the 6th overall team in the league right now and they finished 12th overall last year.

 

The team may have sucked while he was the AGM but I would think that team and its current performance based on where those players came from in the draft says a lot about his talent evaluation.

[dudacek]

I have no issues with Murray’s talent evaluation skills.

But it has become clear he was lacking in other areas necessary to be a successful GM.

Given time, he may have corrected them, but that’s moot now.

[spndnchz]

Chz ain’t worried. My only complaint is I can’t make as many games as I want and getting rid of tix is tough. I’ve donated most of them to RMH.

[Pokey Jones]

Well that's why he was hired, but I would have to suggest it wasn't him OR he deferred to his staff here. or he ran out of luck. Whatever the reason, he was better there than here. 

[SabresFanInRochester]

It's the power play for me.  Also I generally agree with you; I'm not ready to jump off a bridge (or to throw Housley off of one).

Bob Woods was a major loss -- at one point last week, Buffalo was the #18 PP, and Minnesota was #1, exact opposite of last year. (Bob Woods is an assistant coach in Minnesota now.) In addition to the PP not firing on all cylinders, it's all the shorties that they've given up that upset me the most.

[SabresFanInRochester]

I want the team to perform better than they are.  The defense is just not good enough and that's the biggest problem right now.

 

As for everything else...

 

I've watched people on here pine for Todd McLellan, lament losing out on McDavid, talk about how playing Kings hockey was stupid, and more.

 

Right now McLellan is in charge of a team that is below us in the standings and by accounts of people on here should be far above the Sabres.

Right now the Kings, with almost the same roster as last year, are at the top of the league (they only changed a coach and GM)

Right now Jack Eichel has 3 less points than Matthews and 1 more than McDavid and Crosby, the saviours of Canada hockey.

 

It's a highly frustrated fan base that just wants something to change even if it's not necessarily an improvement.  I'm reading comparison to football teams shedding players without accounting for what is guaranteed money in the NFL and the NHL and how they are different.

 

There are comments on how all but 2-3 players on this team need to go.  A move which would certainly bring about another 10 years of mediocre or worse hockey.

 

I think there is quite a bit of player evaluation going on right now.  It's not just about how a player is on the ice but whether or not that player is going to listen to the coaching staff and work to improve their game.  I can hypothesize on reasons why certain players are on the ice but most don't want to hear any potential reason other than what they want to believe.

 

So, for me, I'm just backing off all of it.  I'll watch the games and chime in here or there but it's tiring battling on here when people have gotten to the point where they want to question the validity of the entire franchise's history.

Most level-headed post I have read. It is frustrating to see a loss, and a blowout is depressing. But you have to remain realistic about the early part of this season.

 

I don't think Housley has incorporated what he wants to do. I think in the preseason, we saw full rushes and speed, and we would drastically outshoot the other teams -- even in the home opener against Montreal. And then the games started to count, and Housley, IMO, had to pull back on the reins. With confidence from more games under their belt as a team, these guys will improve.

 

To call Okposo a **** burger is out-of-line.

 

There was a lot of jostling of the roster, and now that the defense was improved on paper from last season, they are banged up. Scandella was eased into the defense and I think he is a nice addition. I still think Bogosian will have a positive impact on the 2nd line. The defense will gel, but needs time.

 

People were ripping O'Reilly after 3-4 games, but he has come on strong. The team will come together.

 

I am hoping it is similar culture to the Bills were a bunch of misfits develop a strong, cohesive team. It was encouraging to read the other day that O'Reilly, Jack and Sam were on the ice after practice. That's the culture that I want here -- where is the rest of the team? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Well, let's see.

 

Players on the current Ottawa Roster drafted while Murray was AGM:

 

Erik Karlsson - 2008 (15th overall - plenty of D drafted ahead of him including Bogosian and Myers)

Zach Smith - 2008 - (79th overall)

Mike Hoffman - 2009 - (130th overall)

Mark Stone - 2010 (178th overall)

J.G. Pageau - 2011 (96th overall)

Chris Wideman - 2009 (100th overall)

Ryan Dzingel - 2011 (204th overall)

Cody Ceci - 2012 (15th overall)

Fredrik Claesson - 2011 (126th overall)

Ben Harpur - 2013 (108th overall)

Max McCormick - 2011 (171st overall)

 

That's 11 players drafted while Murray was in charge of talent evaluation. There are 2 1st rounders in there and the rest are from deep in the draft.

 

Last year's Ottawa team which performed quite well were led in scoring by: Karlsson (1), Hoffman(2), Stone(4), Pageau (6), Smith (7), Dzingel (8)

 

Those Senators have Ottawa the 6th overall team in the league right now and they finished 12th overall last year.

 

The team may have sucked while he was the AGM but I would think that team and its current performance based on where those players came from in the draft says a lot about his talent evaluation.

Except he didn't do that here. Which late round pick looks like it's going to pan out here? If his talent evaluation skills were so great why did he destroy our pipeline while adding lousy and/or injury prone vets like Bogo, Moulson, Delo, Lehner, Kane, Gorges etc.. Talent evaluation is more then amateur scouting.

 

In fact, his failure at pro scouting and evaluation is the chief reason we are were we are. This lead to the bad trades and signings and destroyed our team.

Edited October 31, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[SwampD]

Except he didn't do that here. Which late round pick looks like it's going to pan out here? If his talent evaluation skills were so great why did he destroy our pipeline while adding lousy and/or injury prone vets like Bogo, Moulson, Delo, Lehner, Kane, Gorges etc.. Talent evaluation is more then amateur scouting.

 

In fact, his failure at pro scouting and evaluation is the chief reason we are were we are. This lead to the bad trades and signings and destroyed our team.

He didn't start the tank. Our pipeline was destroyed before he even showed up.

[nfreeman]

Bob Woods was a major loss -- at one point last week, Buffalo was the #18 PP, and Minnesota was #1, exact opposite of last year. (Bob Woods is an assistant coach in Minnesota now.) In addition to the PP not firing on all cylinders, it's all the shorties that they've given up that upset me the most.

 

Interesting.  Good stuff.