TrueBlueGED Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 I just rewatched the game in LA this past March where we were outshot like 15-2 in the first period. Every single instance in that period where Fedun had the puck in our own zone, except for 2, the Sabres team had a controlled exit and maintained possession through the NZ. I'm not sure any other defenseman did that more than once. This was against a big bad scary team that Fedun surely can't handle, right? Your #8 there whiffed on a shot at the point, fell down trying to keep it in, and got ran over by Toffoli (I think) going the other way. He also whiffed on an offensive zone faceoff win which caused a possession switch the next period. Moral of the story - DON"T YOU DARE TYPE GORGES' NAME WHEN TAYLOR FEDUN EXISTS AS A MUCH MORE VIABLE 7/8 D-MAN :P Hey now! I don't want Gorges there, I'm just a little skeptical they actually bury him in Rochester if they can't find someone willing to take on his contract for a year. I honestly liked Fedun better than Falk, and was surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be, given Murray's evaluation of defensemen) got more NHL time and a 1 year contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Hey now! I don't want Gorges there, I'm just a little skeptical they actually bury him in Rochester if they can't find someone willing to take on his contract for a year. I honestly liked Fedun better than Falk, and was surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be, given Murray's evaluation of defensemen) got more NHL time and a 1 year contract. Fair points. It's not totally crazy to say that over the last 3 seasons, Fedun and Nelson from March 2016 are two of our top four transition defensemen, when you account for both skating ability and first-pass ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Not feeling anything other than uncertainty over the value Botterill puts on the players. Is Lehner our goalie going forward, or a chip that can cashed in? Is Bogosian a salary to be dumped or a prime reclamation project? Is Gorges the type of veteran warrior who can help any team, or poison in the locker room and on the ice? Is Girgensons a misused talent to be developed or someone to be moved while he still has value? You could do this with pretty much the entire roster. He told us what he thinks of Ullmark with the signing, other wise we just don't know. He keeps his cards pretty close. His actions are going to tell us. Something big is coming. We can't just bring back the same failed roster less the UFAs. I also don't see much of this roster fitting in with what Wowie and Jbot want to do. I do think Girgensons may get a bigger role. I was surprised that Wowie mentioned Moulson. I don't see how he fits the system. I'm not surprised he wants to see what he can do with Ennis. I still think Gorges is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 I wouldn't read too much into Housley's comments about Moulson. He's likely a goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I wouldn't read too much into Housley's comments about Moulson. He's likely a goner. I hope you're right but I'm skeptical. People assumed he was just pumping tires on Moulson and Ennis then they turn around and protect Ennis when we should haven't been hoping for Vegas to take him off our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 We'll know more later in the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) There have been a couple discussions since the season ended about Josh Gorges and his place with this team. Some people want to see him Craig Rivet-ed, some think he can be a valuable piece in the top six for the last year of his contract, and one or two referred to him as an okay number 4 d-man. In a couple of those discussions, the names of Falk and Fedun have come up. I think both are better than Gorges, but I think Fedun in particular gets snubbed relative to what he brings to the table. In severely limited use, he was one of our best puck moving D last season. I think everyone can agree that this is Gorges' worst asset, but it is argued that Gorges' grit, leadership, and ability to "shut down" players is worth the lack of ability he has as a puck mover. My stance has always been that Gorges should not be a top 8 defender on this team next year, and that we should bury him in Rochester. I have Fedun ahead of both him and Falk on our depth chart, and honestly I'd rather see him than Bogosian at this point as well, though I'll leave Bogosian ahead in this ranking:1.) Risto 2.) McCabe 3.) Beaulieu 4.) Antipin 5.) Bogosian 6.) Fedun 7.) Falk 8.) Guhle 9.) Gorges And I'd like to see another acquisition or two, one to push Antipin down and one to push Fedun/Falk/Guhle/Gorges down. Anyway, when I got into that debate between Taylor and Josh, I mentioned that I don't think Josh actually defends that well, and I think the idea that Taylor couldn't handle anything but the easiest minutes in the world was overblown. While watching some games, I decided to make a point to spend 10 minutes collecting video during our west coast game in LA. So I grabbed a few snippets of each player against the biggest, heaviest, best corsi team in the league to see who could and couldn't handle themselves. Most of these clips are from the first period, one or two from the second, and I was too busy with the other purpose for watching/collecting videos to care about this argument much anymore after these few clips. I'd recommend watching on a computer so the tab navigation is easy. Here's Taylor executing one of our very few successful zone exits of this game (we were outshot like 15-2 in the first). Here's Gorges failing to do the same: Fedun with another successful pass to an open guy: Here's Gorges in a similar situation: Here's Taylor winning a race that Josh wouldn't have even tried: Here's Josh with a failed attempted catch and being left hopelessly behind because of it: Here's Fedun making a cool decision under some forechecking pressure: Another simple, effective pass to make sure we keep the puck: But Gorges is at least better defensively, right? No chance Taylor can snuff out opponents like he can: Since Fedun sucked so bad in that last clip, here's some Gorges manhandling the other team and displaying general competence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9nwLngFjKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSFC46YaKs8 This is all within a 25 minute span of hockey in the day to day lives of these players. It's not freaking close. And yes, I cherrypicked a little. In that time span, Gorges had 1 or 2 completed passes and I think Fedun had a giveaway, as well as two dump ins while his team was changing/not supporting him. Overall, it's still not freaking close. Edited June 20, 2017 by Randall Flagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Fedun though is not a Sabre. And Gorges remains in the top six of the current depth chart: Risto McCabe Bogosian Beaulieu Gorges Falk Antipin Guhle Nelson Austin Stevens Yes, Guhle and Antipin should be better, but they are rookies who need to beat someone out of a job. We need at least one more vet before we cut ties. I think Gorges does need to go - for the same reason he originally needed to come here: he is a strong voice in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Fedun though is not a Sabre. And Gorges remains in the top six of the current depth chart: Risto McCabe Bogosian Beaulieu Gorges Falk Antipin Guhle Nelson Austin Stevens Yes, Guhle and Antipin should be better, but they are rookies who need to beat someone out of a job. We need at least one more vet before we cut ties. I think Gorges does need to go - for the same reason he originally needed to come here: he is a strong voice in the locker room. If this is being measured by playing ability, he's not in the top 7 and maybe even 8 of that list, and I'm looking for 2 more depth acquisitions still. He needs to go because he cannot handle NHL ice time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) To clarify, Gorges is a 6/7 at best, who is also an assistant captain. Those two universes should not collide. Edited June 20, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 I too liked what we saw out of Fedun last year and would like to see the Sabres re-sign him. I kinda expect someone else to overpay for him (relatively speaking) though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetlou Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Kane, ROR, Okposo Foligno , Eichel, Reinhart Girgensons, Bonino, Pomminstein Moulson , Larsson, Bailey McCabe, Risto Beaulieu, Dumba Antipin, Bogo Lehner Ullmark Fasching, Ennis, and 2nd rd pick to Minnesota for Dumba and Pomminstein Gorges bought out or sent to Rochester Guhle plays this year in Rochester and brought up for injuries or if Anitpin doesn't adjust to smaller rinks Edited June 22, 2017 by sweetlou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) So my off-season priorities were to upgrade the coach and the D. Add a capable d-man via trading a pick or UFA and I am OK going into next season under Housley's attacking style with this young, big and fast starting lineup: O'Reilly Eichel AAAAA Kane Reinhart BBBBB Foligno Larsson Gionta (or similar vet) Bailey CCCCC Baptiste Bogosian Ristolainen McCabe DDDDD Beaulieu Antipin Lehner Ullmark AAAAA is Nylander, Girgensons, Baptiste or Okposo BBBBB is Okposo or a rejuvenated Ennis CCCCC is Girgensons or a smart veteran UFA who can skate. DDDDD is an acquisition who is strong in his own zone. Fasching and Guhle are my first call ups. Falk and DLo my Black Aces Moulson and Gorges (and maybe Ennis) are traded or, more likely, waived. Gionta graciously passes the C to Jack, with ROR and Kyle as assistants. I trade 8 and Ennis to Vancouver for Tanev Or 8 and Ennis to Minnesota for Brodin and Pominville (and slide him into Gionta's slot) Or a secondish for Nate Schmidt or Marco Scandella.... Edited June 22, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Some Minnesota fans liked the idea of 37 + Pu for Scandella, would you do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Some Minnesota fans liked the idea of 37 + Pu for Scandella, would you do that?I'd rather a third or another second than Pu, or the lower second with Pu.But I think the value is there. Other thing is with that lineup, instead of a trade I'm open to signing Alzner at something like $16 over four, which is probably more than he deserves, but still probably won't be enough. Edited June 22, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I ain't giving up sh1t..... I mean pu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Putting aside the nice draft from Botterill, as of now the only upgrades we've made to next year's team are the additions of Nathan Beaulieu and Victor Antipin. What additions would we still like to see Botterill make (perhaps this week/weekend) to better help prepare the Sabres for what needs to be a legitimate playoff push this coming season? Or is that all we should expect for roster upgrades? Would this leave the Sabres with a realistic shot of playoffs? I'd like to see Botterill bring in at least a 5/6 D man to provide needed depth and bump Gorges to the press box. I'm also hoping for a depth forward or two, particularly one that has the potential ability to play on LW in the top 6. Without that addition, Ennis is currently slotted in a top 6 role. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) All we've done is replace Kulikov and Franson with Beaulieu and Antipin. Still need to add a second-pairing defenceman to upgrade the unit, push Gorges out of the lineup and force Guhle to learn in Rochester. Risto McCabe ??? Bogosian Beaulieu Antipin Gorges Guhle Falk Fedun Nelson Austin Stephens Martin Florentino Edited June 26, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Putting aside the nice draft from Botterill, as of now the only upgrades we've made to next year's team are the additions of Nathan Beaulieu and Victor Antipin. What additions would we still like to see Botterill make (perhaps this week/weekend) to better help prepare the Sabres for what needs to be a legitimate playoff push this coming season? Or is that all we should expect for roster upgrades? Would this leave the Sabres with a realistic shot of playoffs? I'd like to see Botterill bring in at least a 5/6 D man to provide needed depth and bump Gorges to the press box. I'm also hoping for a depth forward or two, particularly one that has the potential ability to play on LW in the top 6. Without that addition, Ennis is currently slotted in a top 6 role. Thoughts? I am (and have been) in the camp that a different coach will lead this roster to the playoffs, with the additions that have already come on D. I think that upgrading a third of your defense (2/6) is significant. That means, I am only counting on two of the following to make an immediate impact: Beaulieu, Antipin, or Guhle. If only one is ready, I would be disappointed, but the team will still be better. Just one guy will take pressure off Bogo, Risto, and McCabe. Two guys will take this from the worst defense to the middle of the pack ranking, at worst. You should be able to get enough out of the current roster to fill out a solid top six: Okposo, Kane, Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart. We had Carrier in the top 6 last year: I think we can do better. I think either Girgensons or Ennis will be the most logical, but who knows what the rookie camp will bring to 716. Maybe Nylander comes in ready to go. Or Baptiste, Bailey, or Fasching. I think out of that pool, you can find one guy that adequately fits the role. I think the forwards are fine, and to make Ennis, Moulson, or Girgensons a whipping boy just yet is premature because you are going to see them used differently with Housley. Moulson is the odd-man out here, as I don't know how well he fits, but if he turns into a limited line player with PP time, it might make sense. That leaves a crew that I am satisfied with for the next two lines: Larsson, Foligno, and whoever remains that didn't take the spot on the top six (that I listed above.) Since I am really hoping Girgensons excels in the top 6, that would leave Moulson, Ennis, Baptiste, and Bailey to round out the bottom 6. I wouldn't mind Gionta coming back, but I also think if the kids show they are ready for a full-time role, let them have it over Gio. I think the forwards are fine, and to be a whipping boy to Ennis, Moulson, or Girgensons is senseless because you are going to see them used differently with the new coach. Moulson is the odd-man out here, as I don't know how well he fits, but if he turns into a limited line player with PP time, it might make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) I'd like to thank John Vogel for his #hammermath article on the Sabres cap situation so far. http://buffalonews.com/2017/06/27/botterill-will-need-creativity-improve-sabres-roster-week/ Using 27 players and assuming full bonus payouts on all ELC's he claims the Sabres are at 70 mill. He's is assuming full bonuses because Jack came within a pt of getting $2 mill last season. He also only uses the RFA qualifying offers to estimate their new contracts. Here is a more serious discussion. Right now the Sabres lineup looks like this Forwards: (Projected Cost: 10 players - 32.332 + RFAs F, L, G = approx 5.25. Total 37.582 Kane Jack Sam Baptiste ROR KO Foligno* Larsson* Bailey Moulson BigZ* Ennis Delo Defense: (Projected Cost: 7 players - 18.268 + RFA Baloo for 2 = 20.268 McCabe Risto Baloo* Bogo Gorges Antipin Falk Fedun Goalies: (Projected Cost: 1 player 750K + RFA Lehner for 4 = 4.75 Lehner* Ullmark * = RFA Team cost - 62.6 without bonuses. I estimate that we can reasonably add about $8 mill to our cap hit through trades or UFA's to improve the club this season. I'm looking for at least one more D, maybe two and a LW. Edit: potential AHL/ECHL players Forwards Nylander Cornel Fasching Smith ERod Danforth Karabacek Malone Defense Guhle Nelson Stephens Martin Goalie Johansson Kasdorf Edited June 28, 2017 by GASabresFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 He's is assuming full bonuses because Jack came within a pt of getting $2 mill last season. Do bonuses affect the cap this year, or the year after they are earned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Do bonuses affect the cap this year, or the year after they are earned? I believe the same year, but teams that go over the cap as a result pay cap penalties the following season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 After we give Draisaitl a 9.8mil offer sheet, trade Sam for Hanifin, something for Demers and rollZemgus-Jack-Baptiste Ennis-ROR-Okposo Kane-Draisaitl-Bailey Foligno-Larsson-4th liner FA pickup Hanifin-Risto McCabe-Demers Bogosian-Antipin Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 After we give Draisaitl a 9.8mil offer sheet, trade Sam for Hanifin, something for Demers and roll Zemgus-Jack-Baptiste Ennis-ROR-Okposo Kane-Draisaitl-Bailey Foligno-Larsson-4th liner FA pickup Hanifin-Risto McCabe-Demers Bogosian-Antipin Lol Love it. But... Then the plane crashes, we finish last, and don't have a Dahlin lottery ticket. Because Buffalo amirite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Love it. But... Then the plane crashes, we finish last, and don't have a Dahlin lottery ticket. Because Buffalo amirite. Dahlin on this team... :wub: :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts