nfreeman Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Has everyone completely written off Bogosian? No chance he can be a decent second-pairing guy under a new coach? No. Yes. Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) If we can dump Moulson and ride out the last year of Ennis' deal or trade him somehow, I think we will be doing better. We have 3 bad contracts in my mind. Ennis, Moulson, Bogo. If we can ditch one to Vegas and somehow trade 1 more, I think we will be better off. I also think Bogo will be better under a different coach. Exactly, my argument is the new GM should focus more on dumping these bad contracts this year and seeing what we have next year than any tangible improvement/splashy moves. Heck, I think just playing a modern NHL system with the talent we have will get us into the playoffs next year (along with full time Guhle and Antipov replacing Franson/Kulikov/Gorges) EDIT: 4,000 posts :w00t: Edited April 27, 2017 by Touched by Boyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Has everyone completely written off Bogosian? No chance he can be a decent second-pairing guy under a new coach? This is my problem with a lot of players we have that we only saw under DD, it's hard to tell if they were solely a product of Dan sucking, or they also are bad. I'm confident Girgs can bounce back, and that Reinhart and RoR have incredible years. Bogo? Not sure about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 This is my problem with a lot of players we have that we only saw under DD, it's hard to tell if they were solely a product of Dan sucking, or they also are bad. I'm confident Girgs can bounce back, and that Reinhart and RoR have incredible years. Bogo? Not sure about Bogo looked great for an admittedly small sample size when we first got him under Nolan when he played 20+ minutes and had zero coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 In one of my drug-induced fantasies, I wonder about acquiring a shutdown Tanev-type and pairing him with McCabe to play against the toughest opponents. Then we move Bogo to the left - he says he's comfortable there - and play him in offensive situations with Risto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Has everyone completely written off Bogosian? No chance he can be a decent second-pairing guy under a new coach? Well, I had my bunker constructed before this year even played out. His career says he's at best a low end 2nd pairing guy when healthy. His offense can be okay, but everything else is 3rd pair caliber. And he spends half of every year, literally, injured or recovering from injury. This season, of course, he played at an AHL level. I have hope he'll be better than that. But the team will always be better served spending his $5 million elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 In one of my drug-induced fantasies, I wonder about acquiring a shutdown Tanev-type and pairing him with McCabe to play against the toughest opponents. Then we move Bogo to the left - he says he's comfortable there - and play him in offensive situations with Risto. My suspicion with Bogo is he needs to coached emotionally rather than tactically. When he has too many concepts and system thoughts in his head he plays reactive, passive and slow. When he gets hit in the mouth and is emotionally invested in the game he plays aggressive and mean, and can dictate play. I know it is a long shot given his last two years, but I think the talent is salvageable if they push the right buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Do we really have a choice? We are stuck with his contract. We have discussed this before and the only saving grace for Bogo is that we have seen him play some good hockey since he was acquired (in the second half of 2015-16), so we know it's possible. However when was the last time he played a full season? 6, 7 years ago? To get the best out of Bogo, I think the new coach is going to have to tell him to play physically and simply. Use his shot when available, but don't force it. I think his hockey Iq is limited and he needs to be taught situational awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Do we really have a choice? We are stuck with his contract. We have discussed this before and the only saving grace for Bogo is that we have seen him play some good hockey since he was acquired (in the second half of 2015-16), so we know it's possible. However when was the last time he played a full season? 6, 7 years ago? To get the best out of Bogo, I think the new coach is going to have to tell him to play physically and simply. Use his shot when available, but don't force it. I think his hockey Iq is limited and he needs to be taught situational awareness. If Toronto can trade out of Dion Phaneuf's contract anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Do we really have a choice? We are stuck with his contract. We have discussed this before and the only saving grace for Bogo is that we have seen him play some good hockey since he was acquired (in the second half of 2015-16), so we know it's possible. However when was the last time he played a full season? 6, 7 years ago? To get the best out of Bogo, I think the new coach is going to have to tell him to play physically and simply. Use his shot when available, but don't force it. I think his hockey Iq is limited and he needs to be taught situational awareness. These go hand in hand. He cannot be taught this at his age, he already is what he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Not really. Grant is a career AHLer & was brought in to be just that - an AHLer. Had some forwards not gotten injured right at the start, he wouldn't have seen nearly as many NHL games. If he played 15 games or something, sure. But he played more than 40 and took 200 faceoffs and logged 100 minutes on the penalty kill. Whereas any of Bailey, Baptiste, ERod, Carrier, or even Cal O'Reilly or Cole Schneider would have been more productive. But I think Byslma saw him as that veteran (in terms of age) face-off/defensive guy "concept" even though in actuality, he sucks. But he did win over 52% of his face-offs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 If he played 15 games or something, sure. But he played more than 40 and took 200 faceoffs and logged 100 minutes on the penalty kill. Whereas any of Bailey, Baptiste, ERod, Carrier, or even Cal O'Reilly or Cole Schneider would have been more productive. But I think Byslma saw him as that veteran (in terms of age) face-off/defensive guy "concept" even though in actuality, he sucks. But he did win over 52% of his face-offs! I agree that it was FGMTM's concept on the cheap! If Grant would have produced offensively at all it might have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I agree that it was FGMTM's concept on the cheap! If Grant would have produced offensively at all it might have worked. What? Derek Grant never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever produced at the NHL level... ever. If GMTM thought he would produce and that's why it would work, he should have been fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) My suspicion with Bogo is he needs to coached emotionally rather than tactically. When he has too many concepts and system thoughts in his head he plays reactive, passive and slow. When he gets hit in the mouth and is emotionally invested in the game he plays aggressive and mean, and can dictate play. I know it is a long shot given his last two years, but I think the talent is salvageable if they push the right buttons. I think you are spot on with how Bogo needs to be coached. To get the best out of Bogo, I think the new coach is going to have to tell him to play physically and simply. Use his shot when available, but don't force it. I think his hockey Iq is limited and he needs to be taught situational awareness. Agree on the IQ, and conventional wisdom would suggest you're right.But that was the approach Bylsma took and the result speaks for itself: it didn't fix the issues, but it did neuter what he can do well. Boyes has the better way. As long as we're stuck with him, release the hounds. Edited April 27, 2017 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) What? Derek Grant never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever produced at the NHL level... ever. If GMTM thought he would produce and that's why it would work, he should have been fired. No kidding, but you have to go cheap on depth when you give or take on a pile of bad contracts. Remember we spent $81 million in real $ on last years team. Edited April 27, 2017 by GASabresFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 No kidding, but you have to go cheap on depth when you give or take on a pile of bad contracts. Remember we spent $81 million in real $ on last years team. Totally true. I think one of the issues we had was our young guys needed more time and that is where you get some of those cheaper producing contracts from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 No kidding, but you have to go cheap on depth when you give or take on a pile of bad contracts. Remember we spent $81 million in real $ on last years team. I hope we continue to spend more than our cap hit. Good way to use Pegulabucks to gain a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted April 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) I hope we continue to spend more than our cap hit. Good way to use Pegulabucks to gain a competitive advantage. Hasn't worked so far! It's time to reset, go young and see what happens. Edited April 27, 2017 by GASabresFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I hope we continue to spend more than our cap hit. Good way to use Pegulabucks to gain a competitive advantage. Every time I hear the term "Pegulabucks" I think of this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Unfortunately the traditional managers and GM's in the NHL value faceoffs and FO% like you seem to, and as such a guy like Beagle or Dominic Moore get $1MM+ more per year compared to equally skilled players like the Larsson's of the world. My argument is that paying the extra money isn't worth it just for FO% when you are still getting a 20-25pt player. In my roster i'd much rather roll the dice with Baptiste/Bailey/Carrier types and completely exclude Ennis and Moulson from the roster. Short term pains for long term gains. #Swoon :wub: I agree, but in the lineup I posted for example, I already had all those guys pencilled in, and there was still a place for Ennis on the roster. At this point it's Ennis, or a guy like Girgensons or Foligno, which kinda leaves us in the same spot. Part of the reason I feel like adding a LW acquisition may make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) Well, I had my bunker constructed before this year even played out. His career says he's at best a low end 2nd pairing guy when healthy. His offense can be okay, but everything else is 3rd pair caliber. And he spends half of every year, literally, injured or recovering from injury. This season, of course, he played at an AHL level. I have hope he'll be better than that. But the team will always be better served spending his $5 million elsewhere. Right. At this point, I'll be pretty dismayed if we go into next season with Bogo as a 2nd pair D-man. If we do that, we are looking at not upgrading the D, and everyone better be ready for: McCabe - Ristolainen Antipin - Bogosian Guhle - Franson I can tolerate Bogo on the third pair (in place of a Franson (though at 5 mil, it'd be swell if we could trade him)), provided we bring in that top 4 D-man to play on the right side in Bogo's stead. Edited April 27, 2017 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Apparently Antipin plays the right side even though he's a lefty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Right. At this point, I'll be pretty dismayed if we go into next season with Bogo as a 2nd pair D-man. If we do that, we are looking at not upgrading the D, and everyone better be ready for: McCabe - Ristolainen Antipin - Bogosian Guhle - Franson I can tolerate Bogo on the third pair (in place of a Franson (though at 5 mil, it'd be swell if we could trade him)), provided we bring in that top 4 D-man to play on the right side in Bogo's stead. I'm ready to call NFW on Franson returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Apparently Antipin plays the right side even though he's a lefty. That's his preferred side? Maybe they'll target a LHD then: McCabe - Ristolainen ??? - Antipin Guhle - Bogosian ??? = Brodin? As long as Antipin is able to play on the left as well, him being able to play either side gives us a little more flexibility when searching for that D-man to add this offseason. I'm ready to call NFW on Franson returning. I agree. Typed Franson in to illustrate the type of quality we'd likely be slotting in, if they fail to get an upgrade over Bogo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 If Toronto can trade out of Dion Phaneuf's contract anything is possible. Toronto has the league assisting them we do not have such advantages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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