pi2000 Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Chychrun suffered from a bias in that he was good going into his draft year and then was under an intense microscope all year. He played to expectations and so people weren't as excited about him and he slid. I think scouts wanted to see more growth then they did. It was foolish of other teams to bypass on him but I think Nylander also slid a bit and we were smart to take him. Nylander "slid" slightly because his defensive game was very raw. Chychrun I think really suffered from being good early and then consistent. Recency bias as Botterill called it. Good point, yeah I vaguely remember that now. His draft year he improved from 33 points and -11 to 49 points and +23. He didn't score as many goals though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) It seems like, in general, if you're talked about at the top of a draft for a couple of years and you play defense, you are going to fall. Fowler, Chychrun, Liljegren. Hanifin to an extent, he was a top 3 guy for a long time, continued to play fine, and people were less enamored by the time the draft rolled around. Did the same happen to Pietrangelo? Exceptions include obvious studs like Doughty, Hedman, and likely Rasmus Dahlin. Edited June 1, 2017 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Makar has interviews with 29 out of 31 teams, Montreal and San Jose are the hold outs. He interviewed with Buffalo yesterday and felt it went very well. He is small in terms of height, but he is very muscular. Wants to play one to two years at UMass before going pro. He is confident but not cocky and was very at ease with everyone. Middelstadt talked about how cool it was to play his high school state semi final in front of 20,000 people. Has good size, needs to bulk up though. Cody Glass is one tall dude. Callan Foote has a quiet confidence and could not get over the fact that he was being discussed on GR this AM with Craig Button San Jose and Detroit have the toughest interview process. Best part of the combine being here :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 It seems like, in general, if you're talked about at the top of a draft for a couple of years and you play defense, you are going to fall. Fowler, Chychrun, Liljegren. Hanifin to an extent, he was a top 3 guy for a long time, continued to play fine, and people were less enamored by the time the draft rolled around. Did the same happen to Pietrangelo? Exceptions include obvious studs like Doughty, Hedman, and likely Rasmus Dahlin. Good point. And add Ekblad to the list, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) I still can't figure out why Chychrun fell. He was a top prospect, outstanding character, great skater, physically mature, no injury concerns that I'm aware of. He checked all the boxes, I was hoping he would be BUFs pick at the time. When it's all said and done, Nylander may end up the better player, but thought Chychrun was exactly the type of guy they were looking for. Chychrun suffered from a bias in that he was good going into his draft year and then was under an intense microscope all year. He played to expectations and so people weren't as excited about him and he slid. I think scouts wanted to see more growth then they did. It was foolish of other teams to bypass on him but I think Nylander also slid a bit and we were smart to take him. Nylander "slid" slightly because his defensive game was very raw. Chychrun I think really suffered from being good early and then consistent. Recency bias as Botterill called it. I'll call it Luke Schenn/Zach Bogosian syndrome, where a player dominates juniors because he is a man amongst boys. He jumps easily to the NHL because he is physically ready, but doesn't improve much when he gets there. Chychrun dropped because scouts didn't project an upside. Right now, he is an OK NHL defenceman, but scouts thought he will still be just an OK defenceman four or five years from now. Will be interesting to watch how he develops. Edited June 1, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 I'll call it Luke Schenn/Zach Bogosian syndrome, where a player dominates juniors because he is a man amongst boys. He jumps easily to the NHL because he is physically ready, but doesn't improve much when he gets there. Chychrun dropped because scouts didn't project an upside. Right now, he is an OK NHL defenceman, but scouts thought he will still be just an OK defenceman four or five years from now. Will be interesting to watch how he develops. Your posts today are on point, my man. This and the post about the myth of players not wanting to come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) I'll call it Luke Schenn/Zach Bogosian syndrome, where a player dominates juniors because he is a man amongst boys. He jumps easily to the NHL because he is physically ready, but doesn't improve much when he gets there. Chychrun dropped because scouts didn't project an upside. Right now, he is an OK NHL defenceman, but scouts thought he will still be just an OK defenceman four or five years from now. Will be interesting to watch how he develops. Exactly. Scouts want to see the growth from year 1 to year 2. Liljegren got mono going into year 2 and came back to early. He bounced between teams. Had a mediocre World Junior run and so slipping he goes. I think he is better then he has seemed. Bouncing from J20 to SHL is not easy and he wasn't terrible in the SHL according to all accounts. I think if Liljegren is there at #8 we could do worse then drafting him. This is especially true if Makar and Heskainen are gone. Here is a good read on Liljegren. Gives some decent comparable (what say you Rakish?) that may help place his SHL season in context. http://www.rawcharge.com/2017/5/1/15491592/scouting-the-2017-nhl-draft-timothy-liljegren To give his performance perspective, in Victor Hedman’s U18 season in the SHL, he had four points in 39 games. Due to Hedman’s December birthday, compared to Liljegren’s April birthday, Hedman did have another season in the SHL before being drafted, and put up 21 points in 43 games. Erik Karlsson has a similar birthday as Liljegren. When Karlsson was a U18 player, he only played in thirteen SHL games between the regular season and playoffs, and only had one point. Edited June 1, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 I like Liljegren, he wouldn't get past 8 if I was picking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Oliver Kylington from the 2015 draft was highly touted (top 10) if I recall. He ended up going 60th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) You know I am not as high on Makar as some. I rank him below Liljegren and Heiskanen. Not a lot below but enough. The thing with Makar is that he has played in a inferior league for an extra year. Now at the national level he played well which is good. The question is has his development been slowed do to playing against inferior competition? The other issue I think I have is that Makar was born on October 30th 1998. Liljegren was born April 30th 1999. Heiskanen was born July 18th 1999. That means that Liljegren is 6 months younger and Heiskanen is almost 9 months younger. In prospect terms that would be like comparing Alex Nylander to Mitch Marner and wondering why Marner is better. I hadn't paid much attention to ages this cycle because I have been heavily distracted by other things. If I take it into consideration at all, I lean towards Heiskanen first, Liljegren second, and Makar 3rd for my defensemen board. Edited June 1, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Oliver Kylington from the 2015 draft was highly touted (top 10) if I recall. He ended up going 60th. Thats right. He's doing pretty well still though. During the draft someone said teams will regret not drafting him, and its WAY too early to say that but it's pointing that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 You know I am not as high on Makar as some. I rank him below Liljegren and Heiskanen. Not a lot below but enough. Frankly, I like Valimaki the best of the bunch. He has dominated in a physical league in NA. He can skate, has size and good instincts on both ends of the oce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Frankly, I like Valimaki the best of the bunch. He has dominated in a physical league in NA. He can skate, has size and good instincts on both ends of the oce. He currently sits 4th for me. Gun to head right now ranking: Heiskanen Liljegren Makar Valimaki Foote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 I'll call it Luke Schenn/Zach Bogosian syndrome, where a player dominates juniors because he is a man amongst boys. He jumps easily to the NHL because he is physically ready, but doesn't improve much when he gets there. Chychrun dropped because scouts didn't project an upside. Right now, he is an OK NHL defenceman, but scouts thought he will still be just an OK defenceman four or five years from now. Will be interesting to watch how he develops. Auston Matthews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 Auston Matthews But replace "OK NHL defenseman" with "second best goal scorer in the world at 18 years old" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 But replace "OK NHL defenseman" with "second best goal scorer in the world at 18 years old" semantics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) My perfect Draft for Buffalo right now for rounds 1-3 #8 - Liljegren RHD / Heiskanen LHD #38 - Jukiharju RHD / Frost LHC / Mismash LW #54 - Reedy RHC / Farrance LHD #68 - Tyszka LHD / Safin RW #78 - Brook RHD / Ikonen RHC (trade #89 + #99 for this pick) There is a ton of defensive depth in this draft IMPO. In the perfect draft we walk away with Heiskanen or Liljegren, Jukiharju, Reedy, Farrance, and Ikonen. Edited June 1, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 semantics :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 My perfect Draft for Buffalo right now for rounds 1-3 #8 - Liljegren RHD / Heiskanen LHD #38 - Jukiharju RHD / Frost LHC / Mismash LW #54 - Reedy RHC / Farrance LHD #68 - Tyszka LHD / Safin RW #78 - Brook RHD / Ikonen RHC (trade #89 + #99 for this pick) There is a ton of defensive depth in this draft IMPO. In the perfect draft we walk away with Heiskanen or Liljegren, Jukiharju, Reedy, Farrance, and Ikonen. Completely agree that there is some D depth available in the 2nd round. I could see the Sabres go F if both Makar and Hiskanen are gone and then use both 2nd round picks on Dmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Completely agree that there is some D depth available in the 2nd round. I could see the Sabres go F if both Makar and Hiskanen are gone and then use both 2nd round picks on Dmen I don't hate this scenario. I think if you can get 1 of Timmins/Jokiharju and then Tyszka/Farrance/Brook, you could take a forward in the 1st. I think it would be a gamble for Timmins to be at #38 but Jokiharju may be there. All the other guys should be available at 54 although 1 could be gone. The real key though is getting Timmins or Jokiharju. I think right after those two, there is a drop in the quality. Hague you could put with them but I think he will go higher because of his size (teams love size). I would also add Urho Vaakanainen to that grouping of 4 guys who I would be really happy to get at #38. All project out to top 4 defenders and all of them can skate. Edited June 2, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Betcha Estephan goes in round 3. My guess is he didn't want to sign for 6th-round money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Betcha Estephan goes in round 3. My guess is he didn't want to sign for 6th-round money. Avatar bet he goes after round 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Avatar bet he goes after round 3? I can't do an avatar bet. Josie made this for me so I won't change it. Charity bet? Gentlemen's bet? Those I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Draft-watchers, what's your book on Pierre-Olivier Joseph? Looks like nice skating two-way defenceman somewhere between picks 20-40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 I can't do an avatar bet. Josie made this for me so I won't change it. Charity bet? Gentlemen's bet? Those I can do. I was actually thinking the other day about who has the most appropriate avatar. There really is no contest here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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