Vesey signs with Rangers; huge thread now moot

[That Aud Smell]

So you think David Poile is a liar?

 

The way in which Vesey made that difficult decision is set forth in some detail in his Players Tribune essay. It reads as honest to me.

 

I can understand Poile being upset and angry with him. But dem's the breaks.

[Rasmus_]

Yawn, 25 pages on Vesey who still has over a month to sign on the line.  He'll come here or he won't.  Kyle Okposo believed enough in Murray's vision.  If a 23 year old whose best friend is Jack Eichel and the team is on the cusp of a playoff birth doesn't want to play here, then fine.  Best wishes. 

[dudacek]

Nobody is shaming him for exercising his rights under the CBA. It's his ridiculous statements about getting handed a top 6 spot with ample PP time, and already discussing second contract demands before even playing a single second of pro hockey.

Saying this stuff publicly shows a lack of respect. He approach to the league reminds me of Johnny Manziel.

He has never demanded top-six minutes.

He said he will choose a team where those minutes are available in order to maximize his production in order to maximize his second contract. You call it entitled. I call it a free agent making an informed decision about what's best for his career.

 

And before someone says he only cares about the money, he has also stated he wants to be close to home in the northeast.

In a previous article he also made statements to the effect of wanting to be with a good organization, and on a team with a strong stable of young players. That is why we are on the list. He also feels he can't make a fair comparison between organizations without talking to them, that it why he is going to wait until Aug. 15.

 

As PA said, he is being cold-bloodedly logical. If the Sabres want him, they have to present themselves as the most logical option.

 

The only other option is that he's lying, he already has a team in mind and it's not the Sabres.

If that's the case there's not much we can do about it.

Edited July 5, 2016 by dudacek

[darksabre]

Yawn, 25 pages on Vesey who still has over a month to sign on the line.  He'll come here or he won't.  Kyle Okposo believed enough in Murray's vision.  If a 23 year old whose best friend is Jack Eichel and the team is on the cusp of a playoff birth doesn't want to play here, then fine.  Best wishes. 

 

Pragmatism be damned, to the crucifix with Vesey and his freedom of choice. 

[apuszczalowski]

First, Vessey didn't earn anything yet when it comes to the NHL, he was given this opportunity to pick and choose where to play because of a rule the NHL has when it comes to college drafted players that other players don't get the opportunity. In 4 years can Sam or Jack, who have already earned more in the NHL say they want to go be an UFA? They will get to be RFAs and be stuck for a few more years before becoming FAs.

 

Second, it's funny how at his age he is a 'man' who can make his own choices, yet Kane and others are kids when it comes to making dumb moves and getting in trouble.

 

Third, he does have a choice when it came to the draft. Players have to enter themselves into the NHL draft in order to be drafted. The NHL doesn't draft player who haven't entered themselves into the draft to be drafted.

[PASabreFan]

No offense man (you're one of my favorite posters), but expecting him to just sign with us because we gave a 3rd round pick to Nashville even though him and his agent have said all along that he planned to pursue free agency and then being bitter about makes all the butt hurt fans sound more entitled than Vesey.

Then why pay the price? I'm just trying to understand this whole situation. Understandable. It took like 11 pages of this thread for people to figure out he couldn't be signed until July 1.

 

And I'm not bitter. I don't give two shits about the guy.

[rakish]

For me, how Nashville was treated means Vesey made a deal with someone last year. He gave up a lot in skipping the playoffs.  I don't buy the Eichel narrative, I can see the Dad narrative or the hometown narrative, but I'm leaning toward the Toews narrative. 

 

If you look at Chicago's roster, they are at least one forward short, leading me to believe that they believe Vesey has already decided to come to Chicago.

 

I look forward to how it plays out.

[Thorny]

LGR's thoughts echo my own, so I'll continue on.

First, GMTM covets Vesey. He trades a third round pick that wouldn't have returned value for years in order to speak to a player he likes and hopes to sign and have an immediate impact on the team. Regardless of whether Vesey signs or not, that 3rd wasn't going to do anything for us anyway for some time if at all. The risk/reward seems perfectly acceptable.

Second, Vesey was not involved in the trade for his rights. That's between Buffalo and Nashville. He intended to go to August 15th and GMTM trading for the rights to speak to him doesn't necessitate any action on Vesey's part. GMTM likely knew this when trading for those rights. Again, GMTM perceived value here. Why Vesey is now being subjected to scrutiny for stating he'll move forward as planned makes little sense to me. Why should his plans change?

Lastly, all this criticism of his honor, or his needing to "know his role" or whatever, is petulant. The man (he is a man, no?) was drafted as a college student (a process that players don't agree to by the way. Anyone can be drafted. Perhaps he didn't want to be drafted in the first place?), and decided that after getting his degree (something many college players forgo) he wanted to continue deciding his fate. He clearly valued his education and elected to value that over entering hockey right away. That's good awareness for the long term. And given the power and opportunity to make a decision on his terms, he should feel no shame.

But please, butthurt citizens of the internet, continue to hem and haw that Vesey owes anyone anything. Looks to me like he earned his right to choose where he starts his NHL career. If you wouldn't do the same, given the choice, then you are either a liar or an idiot.

Well said.

 

Does anyone know when this meeting with GMTM is?

[Drunkard]

So you think David Poile is a liar?

 

I guess I should have clarified that Vesey has done nothing wrong to us. Assuming he told Nashville he was planning to sign with them and then reneged on that promise than I can see where Nashville fans should be pissed off but if anything that should make Buffalo fans feel even less entitled in all of this. He's not obligated to sign here and it makes even less sense for him to do it just weeks before his opportunity for 28 other teams to make a pitch for why he'd be a good fit with them.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Drunkard

[PASabreFan]

At this point, it is difficult (damn near impossible) for me to distinguish between what PA actually thinks and what he's just throwing out there in an effort to churn the waters.

Could be a separate thread, but these trolling accusations on this board need to stop. It's garbage. Pure garbage. Disagree with someone or how someone expresses an opinion? Go right for the personal attack. It's classless. But no surprise. It is used by and condoned by the board owner and at least one of the moderators. One of the top posters gets away with it all the time. It is a stain on this board.

 

LGR's thoughts echo my own, so I'll continue on.

 

First, GMTM covets Vesey. He trades a third round pick that wouldn't have returned value for years in order to speak to a player he likes and hopes to sign and have an immediate impact on the team. Regardless of whether Vesey signs or not, that 3rd wasn't going to do anything for us anyway for some time if at all. The risk/reward seems perfectly acceptable.

Do you think Nashville had more than one suitor for those rights?

 

Nobody is shaming him for exercising his rights under the CBA. It's his ridiculous statements about getting handed a top 6 spot with ample PP time, and already discussing second contract demands before even playing a single second of pro hockey.

 

Saying this stuff publicly shows a lack of respect. He approach to the league reminds me of Johnny Manziel.

Exactly.

 

Did last year's Hobey Baker winner demand a top 6 spot? Not even close, when asked about his number last summer Eichel said he needed to make the team first. Vesey is the anti-Eichel, dont want him anywhere near the kids. Maybe Eichel already knows this about him which would explain why he's not leaning on him too hard.

I like this opinion. A lot.

[Drunkard]

Then why pay the price? I'm just trying to understand this whole situation. Understandable. It took like 11 pages of this thread for people to figure out he couldn't be signed until July 1.

 

And I'm not bitter. I don't give two shits about the guy.

 

Who knows? You'd have to ask the guy who paid said price (GMTM). Maybe he was instructed to by his meddling boss, maybe Eichel convinced him it was a sure thing, or maybe just maybe Murray though it was worth the gamble given our plethora of picks and the fact that you can only have 50 players under contract anyway. The price we paid to Nashville isn't Vesey's fault though. It's not like Murray consulted with his agent first, they seemed legitimately surprised by the news.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Drunkard

[darksabre]

First, Vessey didn't earn anything yet when it comes to the NHL, he was given this opportunity to pick and choose where to play because of a rule the NHL has when it comes to college drafted players that other players don't get the opportunity. In 4 years can Sam or Jack, who have already earned more in the NHL say they want to go be an UFA? They will get to be RFAs and be stuck for a few more years before becoming FAs.

 

Second, it's funny how at his age he is a 'man' who can make his own choices, yet Kane and others are kids when it comes to making dumb moves and getting in trouble.

 

Third, he does have a choice when it came to the draft. Players have to enter themselves into the NHL draft in order to be drafted. The NHL doesn't draft player who haven't entered themselves into the draft to be drafted.

 

Vesey earned a higher valuation by exceeding expectations during his college career. That has earned him his shot at the NHL and his opportunity to pick his team. Had he not done so well in college his options would have been more limited. His NHL stock rose. This has nothing to do with players who opt not to finish college, or never go in the first place. That is their choice. 

 

Vesey and Kane are separated by one year. That Vesey appears much more focused on the long term and on his career, while Kane suffers maturity issues, should not reflect negatively on Vesey. That he appears more mature than Kane is likely a good thing. 

 

If you are correct on the last point, it doesn't change much. Vesey is allowed to finish college and should not be punished for doing so. Being drafted is a formality and is not a guarantee of anything, either for the player or the team. Being drafted is not the only way to enter the NHL. 

 

But please, continue whining. 

 

Do you think Nashville had more than one suitor for those rights?

 

 

Possibly. What does it matter? 

[That Aud Smell]

Did last year's Hobey Baker winner demand a top 6 spot? 

 

Has this year's?

 

In any case: Was last year's Hobey Baker winner 23 years old?

 

Could be a separate thread, but these trolling accusations on this board need to stop. It's garbage. Pure garbage. Disagree with someone or how someone expresses an opinion? Go right for the personal attack. It's classless. But no surprise. It is used by and condoned by the board owner and at least one of the moderators. One of the top posters gets away with it all the time. It is a stain on this board.

 

 

I didn't say you were trolling. I might suggest that you erroneously cry foul on accusations of trolling more often than you actually troll.

 

Anyhoo. I stopped in on this thread, glossed through, and saw some fairly weird, fantastical takes. And I noted that it's July. Given that backdrop, I honestly couldn't sort out whether you were having some fun, offering genuine opinions, or a bit of both.

Edited July 5, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[LGR4GM]

Alternative explanation, Vesey told poile he couldn't sign at the deadline cuz he wanted to finish college, Poile was pissed and Vesey soured on Nashville. Now Vesey wants full control

[rakish]

Alternative explanation, Vesey told poile he couldn't sign at the deadline cuz he wanted to finish college, Poile was pissed and Vesey soured on Nashville. Now Vesey wants full control

 

maybe

[...]

LGR4GM, on 05 Jul 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

Alternative explanation, Vesey told poile he couldn't sign at the deadline cuz he wanted to finish college, Poile was pissed and Vesey soured on Nashville. Now Vesey wants full control

 

I think it's likely something to that effect happened that led to Vesey souring on Nashville.  It may have been several years worth of pressure to quit school early.  Still speculating, he might have a low opinion of the South, like a lot of New Englanders seem to.

[LGR4GM]

Could be a separate thread, but these trolling accusations on this board need to stop. It's garbage. Pure garbage. Disagree with someone or how someone expresses an opinion? Go right for the personal attack. It's classless. But no surprise. It is used by and condoned by the board owner and at least one of the moderators. One of the top posters gets away with it all the time. It is a stain on this board.

 

Do you think Nashville had more than one suitor for those rights?

 

Exactly.

 

I like this opinion. A lot.

You'll be happy to know I was told another outburst from me will result in a lengthy suspension. No one on this board should expect one anytime soon.

 

Also, if you want to call out a mod or poster for this, just say who it is.

[Georgia Blizzard]

Well said.

 

Does anyone know when this meeting with GMTM is?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's today.  With development camp starting on Wednesday, I'd assume all the front office/ownership would want to focus on that starting on Wednesday.

 

Anyone else know something more certain ?

[pi2000]

The way in which Vesey made that difficult decision is set forth in some detail in his Players Tribune essay. It reads as honest to me.

 

I can understand Poile being upset and angry with him. But dem's the breaks.

 

Alternative explanation, Vesey told poile he couldn't sign at the deadline cuz he wanted to finish college, Poile was pissed and Vesey soured on Nashville. Now Vesey wants full control

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nhl/predators/2016/03/29/predators-jimmy-vesey-free-agency-david-poile-nhl/82368660/

 

Prior to the trade deadline, Vesey told Poile/Fenton that he was going to sign with them after his season was over... which affected their trade plans, as a result they kept a spot open for him instead of filling it through trade.

 

As per Poile....

 

"We told him if he was going to sign with us, we were going to keep a position available for him, and he told us that he was going to sign with us."

 

The Predators remained in regular contact with Vesey, his family and his representation. Nichol corresponded with Vesey on a weekly basis, and Poile said Vesey's father, an amateur scout for the Maple Leafs, "seemed to be very much in favor of his son signing in Nashville" as recently as last week (mid-March).

 

"After all the time and resources that we invested in Jimmy's development, we could not get a meeting with Jimmy, his family and his representatives all together," Poile said. "That’s the only thing I asked for after (March 23), and they would not accommodate us on that."

 

It appears that Vesey reneged on his gentlemen's agreement that he was going to sign with NSH.   He screwed over their trade deadline plans, then lied to the media about what he communicated to Poile.....

 

...as per Vesey's agent (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/3/31/jimmy-vesey-statement-nashville/):

 

“Nashville now claims and it has been widely reported that they were without knowledge of this possibility and that this lack of knowledge precluded the hockey club from acquiring a player at the Trade Deadline,” the statement reads. “This contention is not accurate. The Nashville Predators were informed prior to the Trade Deadline that they should conduct their business as they saw fit and that the potential of signing or not signing Jimmy Vesey should not be a factor in their decision.”

 

So Vesey's camp is calling Poile a liar, an accusation that I believe is a fabrication to legitimize his position to wait for free agency.    It's dirty pool, unprofessional, and speaks poorly for his character.   He is not the type of person you want as a core piece to build a winning team.  The further away this kid gets from Buffalo the better.   

[PASabreFan]

You'll be happy to know I was told another outburst from me will result in a lengthy suspension. No one on this board should expect one anytime soon.

 

Also, if you want to call out a mod or poster for this, just say who it is.

You are not the stain. Or the taint. You just had a fit of keyboard Tourette's. I've already forgotten it. It's hard to forget an ongoing, sustained pattern of attacks, with the T word cleverly used to draw the attention of the po-po. Hell, this guy even outright called for me to be tossed. You Know Who.

[LGR4GM]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nhl/predators/2016/03/29/predators-jimmy-vesey-free-agency-david-poile-nhl/82368660/

 

Prior to the trade deadline, Vesey told Poile/Fenton that he was going to sign with them after his season was over... which affected their trade plans, as a result they kept a spot open for him instead of filling it through trade.

 

As per Poile....

 

"We told him if he was going to sign with us, we were going to keep a position available for him, and he told us that he was going to sign with us."

 

The Predators remained in regular contact with Vesey, his family and his representation. Nichol corresponded with Vesey on a weekly basis, and Poile said Vesey's father, an amateur scout for the Maple Leafs, "seemed to be very much in favor of his son signing in Nashville" as recently as last week (mid-March).

 

"After all the time and resources that we invested in Jimmy's development, we could not get a meeting with Jimmy, his family and his representatives all together," Poile said. "That’s the only thing I asked for after (March 23), and they would not accommodate us on that."

 

It appears that Vesey reneged on his gentlemen's agreement that he was going to sign with NSH.   He screwed over their trade deadline plans, then lied to the media about what he communicated to Poile.....

 

...as per Vesey's agent (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/3/31/jimmy-vesey-statement-nashville/):

 

“Nashville now claims and it has been widely reported that they were without knowledge of this possibility and that this lack of knowledge precluded the hockey club from acquiring a player at the Trade Deadline,” the statement reads. “This contention is not accurate. The Nashville Predators were informed prior to the Trade Deadline that they should conduct their business as they saw fit and that the potential of signing or not signing Jimmy Vesey should not be a factor in their decision.”

 

So Vesey's camp is calling Poile a liar, an accusation that I believe is a fabrication to legitimize his position to wait for free agency.    It's dirty pool, unprofessional, and speaks poorly for his character.   He is not the type of person you want as a core piece to build a winning team.  The further away this kid gets from Buffalo the better.   

I see Poile's veiwpoint from what you posted which I already knew. I do not see any explanation or alternative from Vesey. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

The bolded is speculation that I disagree with until I hear or see anything from Vesey. 

[beerme1]

Kyle Okposo believed enough in Murray's vision.

 

 

Well that and 42 million Pegulabucks also.

[nobody]

Seems like the only statement in that article that says he might sign with the Preds was from Vesey's father.  Perhaps a little effort of one team trying to screw over another?

Edited July 5, 2016 by nobody

[pi2000]

I see Poile's veiwpoint from what you posted which I already knew. I do not see any explanation or alternative from Vesey. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

The bolded is speculation that I disagree with until I hear or see anything from Vesey. 

 

Let's pretend for a minute that lightning strikes and he signs with Buffalo.   He comes in says all the right things about working hard to earn his spot, blah blah blah.

 

Years pass, Buffalo is a legit contender with him filling a top 6 role, he's a core piece and flourishing into his 3rd-4th season in the league, jersey's are flying off the shelves.     It comes time to re-sign him, he has one year left on his deal before becoming a UFA.    He makes a promise to players, fans, management that he intends to re-sign with the team, but the negotiations drag on well into the spring.     He says it's a just a few minor details to work out and that he'll be back next season in the blue and gold.    July 1st hits, and he signs with BOS, his hometown team.   

 

GMTM needs to scramble to fill his spot, the Sabres lose a core piece and have nothing to show for it.  

 

I seem to remember another guy from the New England area who pulled this crap on the Sabres not too long ago. 

[ct fab]

Chicago makes sense, other than the fact it's not on the East Coast.  The article shows how much family and friendship means to him, thus, with Eichel, we may have the edge.  Boston would but then jhis father and Jimmy Hayes said to avoid Boston, the media and it's fans.  I think we'll still get him and it could be later this week.