Steven Stamkos stays in Tampa Bay, 8.5mil x 8yrs

[WildCard]

You need to stop with this nonsense or he's not gonna want to come here :)

 

Yeah I get it.   Eichel will prolly score 30 next year, but who else on this roster will even get close to that?   Kane maybe?   Ennis if he's back to his old self?  This team still sorely lacks scoring, 4th worst in goals scored this year.    Their goals against is right in the middle of the league and with a young defense and injured goalie.   Their goals against will improve next year without adding any big $$$ UFA's on the back-end.   

 

I'd look at a Stamkos signing similar to the Pat LaFontaine deal in the early 90's.     It's not just the goals he scores, but the intagibles, the leadership, etc... that make everybody around him better.    I'd rather have guys like Eichel and Reinhart follow in the footsteps of Stamkos than a Matt Moulson, BRian Gionta or Evander Kane.    O'Reilly is great too, but he's young as well.

I'll start with the bold. Stamkos has absolutely no intangibles. Leadership? He constantly fights with his coach, was heavily demoted in the biggest series of his life, and is little better than Brad Marchand when it comes to talking on the ice. I would, and I cannot stress this enough, so much rather have ROR leading this team than Stamkos. 

 

You don't need 40 goal scorers to win. How many Cups does Ovechkin have? How about Perry? Or Stamkos? 1, between all of them, and 2 appearances. And Perry won his Cup on the backs of Pronger and Niedermayer. The Blackhawks have won 3, and as True detailed above, not 1 pure goal scorer on any of those teams. The Hawks are amazing because they have Seabrook and Keith, and incredible depth scoring. 

 

Your defense directly effects how many goals you score. Both in terms of where you spend your time on the ice, the chances generated on the rush, and moving the puck in the offensive zone. 

 

If this keeps Stamkos away I'll post in this thread all day  :lol:

I said his team is known as chokers.

 

Stamkos doesn't even step up in the playoffs, much less carries them.

 

And I was referring to Ovechkin because the quote of yours that I used specifically referred to Ovechkin.

O'Reilly brings much more to the table than Stamkos.

 

Tough to compare Crosby and Ovechkin to Stamkos because outside of Crosby's early Cup win, both him and Ovechkin are widely considered to be playoff chokers as well. And their team's success in the postseason reflects that.

 

[WildCard]

And?

Everytime 

[Weave]

Come on, the first facts changed the argument from disappearing act to not bad. You add other comparables, then what will the argument be? I don't like blonds?

 

Not sure why you latched onto me.  I'm not arguing one way or the other.  Just thought calling Stamko's stats proof that he's not a playoff performer meaningless without comparables.

[Thorny]

I would say all of those things are huge for him, and that's why a) he won't come here and b) bringing him here would be a huge mistake

 

Justin Williams? Patrik Kane? Both with Conn Smythes (at least I think Williams has one).

 

Actually, I think Quick got one, and Doughty the other for the Kings

I would imagine a lot of Ovechkin's has to do with limited pp opportunities in the postseason. I'm shocked Crosby's isn't lower, I would figure teams would glue onto him in the postseason much more so

 

And Sid having a points-per-game over 1 in the playoffs speaks to his greatness.

 

O'Reilly brings much more to the table than Stamkos.

 

Tough to compare Crosby and Ovechkin to Stamkos because outside of Crosby's early Cup win, both him and Ovechkin are widely considered to be playoff chokers as well. And their team's success in the postseason reflects that.

 

Not even close. Crosby especially is one of the greatest points per game players in nhl post-season history. There is only so much one guy can do. It would be much more accurate to pin their playoff exits around the time shortly after their cup win on Fleury's abysmal goaltending in those stretches, if you want to pin their losses on one guy.

[TrueBlueGED]

And Sid having a points-per-game over 1 in the playoffs speaks to his greatness.

 

 

Not even close. Crosby especially is one of the greatest points per game players in nhl post-season history. There is only so much one guy can do. It would be much more accurate to pin their playoff exits around the time shortly after their cup win on Fleury's abysmal goaltending in those stretches, if you want to pin their losses on one guy.

You and I are on the same page regarding Crosby. His performance is unassailable. Organizational failures all around him and he gets dumped on for it.

[JJFIVEOH]

And Sid having a points-per-game over 1 in the playoffs speaks to his greatness.

 

 

Not even close. Crosby especially is one of the greatest points per game players in nhl post-season history. There is only so much one guy can do. It would be much more accurate to pin their playoff exits around the time shortly after their cup win on Fleury's abysmal goaltending in those stretches, if you want to pin their losses on one guy.

I can't argue for Fleury that's for sure.

[Thorny]

You and I are on the same page regarding Crosby. His performance is unassailable. Organizational failures all around him and he gets dumped on for it.

 

Their organizational failures are especially unforgivable considering Malkin has a ppg in the playoffs above 1.00 as well. They could have done so much more over the course of the last several years if they hadn't been handcuffed by such poor, poor management. It's sad, in a way. An almost criminal waste of star talent. 

[Mustache of God]

Any talk of Stamkos' contract next season is useless until his post-season is over. His performance in the next 3 months will have a significant impact on how much he brings home in FA.

[inkman]

Stamkos is a hockey god.

This is where I stopped reading

[TrueBlueGED]

Any talk of Stamkos' contract next season is useless until his post-season is over. His performance in the next 3 months will have a significant impact on how much he brings home in FA.

Personally I think any GM basing a Stamkos decision on 3 months of work should not be allowed to make a Stamkos decision.

[pi2000]

This is where I stopped reading

 

Top 9th youngest player all-time to reach 300 NHL goals.    He's a shoe-in hall-of-famer.   

[WildCard]

Top 9th youngest player all-time to reach 300 NHL goals.    He's a shoe-in hall-of-famer.   

HOF != god IMO. Hossa is a HOF player, Jagr is a god

[3putt]

ROR is older than Evander Kane :huh:     I also don't think this team lacks leadership in anyway.  

 

Reinhart has a good shot at scoring 30 next year. Kane might do it. Really depends on the changes the league makes and if Refs are going to call all the holding and grabbing.

I have Reinhart as a 20 to 25 goal guy but with the right line a 40 to 50 assist guy.  I think he needs to be at the pivot distributing the puck to fully realize his playmaking ability.

[inkman]

Top 9th youngest player all-time to reach 300 NHL goals. He's a shoe-in hall-of-famer.

I would never refer to an athlete as a god. Such rhetoric is fanboi nonsense.

[sabills]

[LaLaLaFontaine]

We have room for a 60 goal scorer on our roster.

 

Yes he did that just once, but the other seasons were also not too bad.

 

I would pay him 12 m per year but I think Toronto will too so he goes there.

[beerme1]

I said his team is known as chokers.

 

Stamkos doesn't even step up in the playoffs, much less carries them.

 

And I was referring to Ovechkin because the quote of yours that I used specifically referred to Ovechkin.

 

 

Remember that year in the playoffs for Tampa when Stamkos took a puck in the face? That's the real sign of a slack ass right there.

[dudacek]

A few things that have been thrown out here:

*Stamkos won't play wing

*Stamkos will demand to be captain

*Stamkos is a coach killer

Add up to a poisonous ego that will disrupt team chemistry.

 

Can someone please post links that support these statements?

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the combination of Jack and Steve could be absolutely dynamite on the ice?

Or Sam and Steve, or Ryan and Steve?

 

Can someone please point to a team other than Toronto who

A) can pay Stamkos $12 million

B) where it makes sense to pay Stamkos more than $10 million

 

I think here are some premises here that need to be more closely examined.

Edited March 19, 2016 by dudacek

[tom webster]

A few things that have been thrown out here:

*Stamkos won't play wing

*Stamkos will demand to be captain

*Stamkos is a coach killer

Add up to a poisonous ego that will disrupt team chemistry.

 

Can someone please post links that support these statements?

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the combination of Jack and Steve could be absolutely dynamite on the ice?

Or Sam and Steve, or Ryan and Steve?

 

Can someone please point to a team other than Toronto who

A) can pay Stamkos $12 million

B) where it makes sense to pay Stamkos more than $10 million

 

I think here are some premises here that need to be more closely examined.

Amen brother.

 

Like I said, I can respect the objections based on team needs or salary cap concerns, even if I don't agree with them. The other stuff is garbage, in my opinion, anyway.

[Randall Flagg]

A few things that have been thrown out here:

*Stamkos won't play wing

*Stamkos will demand to be captain

*Stamkos is a coach killer

Add up to a poisonous ego that will disrupt team chemistry.

 

Can someone please post links that support these statements?

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the combination of Jack and Steve could be absolutely dynamite on the ice?

Or Sam and Steve, or Ryan and Steve?

 

Can someone please point to a team other than Toronto who

A) can pay Stamkos $12 million

B) where it makes sense to pay Stamkos more than $10 million

 

I think here are some premises here that need to be more closely examined.

Love this.

 

Still on the fence with Stamkos. I want him, but I'm not convinced he makes this team better than an alternative route that puts some of the assets that would be tied up with Steven into the defense and a lesser-quality winger or two.

[Huckleberry]

Said this before I wouldn't go over 11 mill.     but 10 mill + is what he is at least getting and I can't see him signing in tampa for that kind of money.

They offered him 8 mill, If I'm Stamkos I laugh and walk away.

[TrueBlueGED]

A few things that have been thrown out here:

*Stamkos won't play wing

*Stamkos will demand to be captain

*Stamkos is a coach killer

Add up to a poisonous ego that will disrupt team chemistry.

 

Can someone please post links that support these statements?

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks the combination of Jack and Steve could be absolutely dynamite on the ice?

Or Sam and Steve, or Ryan and Steve?

 

Can someone please point to a team other than Toronto who

A) can pay Stamkos $12 million

B) where it makes sense to pay Stamkos more than $10 million

 

I think here are some premises here that need to be more closely examined.

I suppose it's a matter of framing. I thought it was pretty well established that he prefers to play center, and that his clashes with Cooper, which came to a head in the playoffs last year, were predominantly based upon that. At the gym right now, but there was a bunch of stuff on his temporary position change. At some point Yzerman himself even talked about it, openly wondering what's wrong with playing both positons as he himself did in Detroit.

 

Howard Simon (last week sometime IIRC) had a Tampa writer on essentially corroborating the whole thing, saying Stamkos prefers center because he feels being on the wing limits his mobility. Honestly don't remember reading anything regarding the captaincy. Now, again, it's about framing. Stamkos having a position preference and clashing with the coach over it are quite a bit different than refusing to play wing and being a coach killer. How deep the preference goes and how much it could influence future organization/coach-player relationships I won't pretend to know, but it's not garbage to worry about.

 

To question A) can't peruse Generalfanager at the moment, but I'd assume only a handful can realistically afford it *right now*. If other teams think as highly of him as many posters here, I'd imagine that number will grow as teams work to shed salary to make a run.

 

B) In my opinion, fewer than in A. But, I also think he's a $9 million player, a sentiment which I don't think is shared around the league. One team that comes to mind is Minnesota if they can offload Vanek and Pommer, but I can't see how they afford it otherwise, and moving those contracts wouldn't be easy.

Said this before I wouldn't go over 11 mill. but 10 mill + is what he is at least getting and I can't see him signing in tampa for that kind of money.

They offered him 8 mill, If I'm Stamkos I laugh and walk away.

Keep in mind Tampa can offer him an extra year, so $8 million per is like $9.4 million elsewhere in total dollar value.

[dudacek]

That's pretty much what my memory tells.

He prefers centre and has had some friction with Cooper over it.

Never refused to play it. Going to a team that wants him to play centre likely preferred.

 

I've done the number crunching somewhere on here. I'll have to dig it up.

Very, very few teams have cap space and no internal budget.

Good luck dishing guys like Vanek to clear space in that climate.

 

There are five $9 million players in this league.

There is a consensus that Stamkos is not one of the five best players in this league.

 

Why. does everyone think there is a long line of GMs ready to through the moon at him?

I think most GMs proposals agree with the $9 million assessment. Some will go higher because the market will demand it.

I know that all it takes is one idiot team, but I expect the team's willing to bid $10 million will be very few.

Edited March 19, 2016 by dudacek

[TrueBlueGED]

Going to a team that wants him to play centre likely preferred.

 

snip

 

There are five $9 million players in this league.

There is a consensus that Stamkos is not one of the five best players in this league.

 

Why. does everyone think there is a long line of GMs ready to through the moon at him?

I think most GMs proposals agree with the $9 million assessment. Some will go higher because the market will demand it.

I know that all it takes is one idiot team, but I expect the team's willing to bid $10 million will be very few.

Exactly, all it takes is one stupid team. Teams get stupid for far lesser players, don't see why they wouldn't for Stamkos. It won't be hard for a front office to talk themselves into it with similar logic that many use here: the chance to acquire a 40-goal scorer in what is widely considered his prime, for only money, comes around once in...never. Naturally, that doesn't mean 15 teams will have the capability of doing it. But I expect the number will be more than us, Toronto, and Tampa.

 

Hypothetically let's say we agree he's a $9 million player, and the league largely agrees, but the market puts a $1.5 million tax on him. Should we be the team to pay $10.5 million for a $9 million player? Somebody will pay the premium, just like with Suter/Parise. Should it be us? Obviously anyone who thinks he's better than a $9 million player can ignore this exercise :)

[kishoph]

I just hope that he doesn't use the Sabres to drive up the price for the Leafs.