That Aud Smell Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 This is a different conversation though, and not the one that has been argued in this thread. The argument here has revolved around the entertainment value of Jamie McGinn. The loss of McGinn is being correlated with a loss of entertainment value. Well, yeah. I'm not really all that on board with that. Fair distinction you've made, and recalled. If people are worried that Jack Jack is going to suffer because he can't live without Jamie for the rest of the season then by all means let's have that discussion. We can even call Ghost back. I'm sure he'd love to postulate on Jack's psychological state. It's Jimbo, btw. Apparently. I do think it'd be a mistake to infantilize the idea that a 19 year-old professional hockey player could hit an emotional speed bump because a guy he really, really got along with was traded away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Well, yeah. I'm not really all that on board with that. Fair distinction you've made, and recalled. It's Jimbo, btw. Apparently. I do think it'd be a mistake to infantilize the idea that a 19 year-old professional hockey player could hit an emotional speed bump because a guy he really, really got along with was traded away. Sure, but let's not also exaggerate the impact. So Jack and Jamie are buds. Jack has been playing the game long enough to know how this works. He's had a lot of teammates. He's a man playing in the best league in the world. He's got mentors all around him. Do we need to coddle Jack by overpaying for a man sized comfort blanket? Should Jamie have signed a discounted extension to help his buddy out? Or are both guys pros who understand this is how the game works? Jacker can just give ol' Jamie a call on his bananaphone if he's feelin' down. :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Here we are yet again on the day after a trade deadline, and instead of being excited about watching our new arrival play tonight, pushing us into the playoffs, I'm being told to be excited about a player who may or may not make the NHL in 4-6 years. Awesome. This is just being argumentative for argument's sake. Draft picks are the currency for the NHL. Arguing about receiving draft picks is like arguing with your employer about receiving money as compensation for work. You can't eat money. Money doesn't keep the rain off your head. Why would anyone want money then? Tim Murray explicitly stated that the Sabres would be beneficiaries of teams needing to unload good players this summer because of the cap. He's loading up on the currency that allows him to buy those players. So, that's not 4-6 years. It is more likely that it is 6 months. He will use those picks to buy good players who fit in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Well, yeah. I'm not really all that on board with that. Fair distinction you've made, and recalled. It's Jimbo, btw. Apparently. I do think it'd be a mistake to infantilize the idea that a 19 year-old professional hockey player could hit an emotional speed bump because a guy he really, really got along with was traded away. Half joking: if Eichel can survive living with Moulson, he'll be fine with Jimbo getting traded :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Early in the year I posited he could be our Hjalmarsson. Well let me tell you, I know Nicklas Hjalmarsson as a player, I've seen his game and looked at his stats. Zach Bogosian is no Nicklas Hjalmarsson. Maybe he can be an expensive Oduya. Maybe. Bogosian haters gotta Bogosian hate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I love watching picks play hockey. Someday a player I like to watch might actually stay a Sabre. have you enjoyed watching Justin Bailey so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Many of us have been renouncing it the entire time. Did you just join the board today? And yet those are still better odds than a 3rd becoming something worth anything. HOORAY FOR THE FUTURE!!!!… …May you never come. You know I wanted them to keep McGinn. But when Murray says he tried, and they weren't close, I believe him. This is the best he could do, I guess. Bogosian haters gotta Bogosian hate I understand the Bogo hate about as well as I understand the Pysyk worship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Bogosian haters gotta Bogosian hate It's not hate if it's true. Look, if you want to argue you believe in him going forward for a variety of reasons, fine, knock yourself in out. But nobody can objectively view his game this year as being anything better than 3rd pair on a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 You know I wanted them to keep McGinn. But when Murray says he tried, and they weren't close, I believe him. This is the best he could do, I guess. I think this point was missed a bit. I also believe that he tried. I believe McGinn knows this may be his only shot at getting one of the 30 teams to give him a stupid contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Tim Murray explicitly stated that the Sabres would be beneficiaries of teams needing to unload good players this summer because of the cap. He's loading up on the currency that allows him to buy those players. So, that's not 4-6 years. It is more likely that it is 6 months. He will use those picks to buy good players who fit in the long term. Exactly... I see lots of people unable to see the bigger picture. There will be quite a Few Jamie McGinn's and then some available this offseason. Lots of teams pushed themselves up tight against the cap and are going to want draft picks to start filling the stables again. we will see some new vet faces for those draft picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 You were not the target of my post. Your thoughts on all of this have never changed or been over the top. Yep. We all know that moving McGinn was the right move. Just don't ask me to be happy about it,… or even indifferent. Here we are yet again on the day after a trade deadline, and instead of being excited about watching our new arrival play tonight, pushing us into the playoffs, I'm being told to be excited about a player who may or may not make the NHL in 4-6 years. Awesome. That draft pick may also be packaged with other picks or players and bring an NHL player back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Sure, but let's not also exaggerate the impact. So Jack and Jamie are buds. Jack has been playing the game long enough to know how this works. He's had a lot of teammates. He's a man playing in the best league in the world. He's got mentors all around him. Do we need to coddle Jack by overpaying for a man sized comfort blanket? Should Jamie have signed a discounted extension to help his buddy out? Or are both guys pros who understand this is how the game works? Jacker can just give ol' Jamie a call on his bananaphone if he's feelin' down. :angel: All valid points. That draft pick may also be packaged with other picks or players and bring an NHL player back.... almost certainly the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 That draft pick may also be packaged with other picks or players and bring an NHL player back.... And then the other side will complain that we paid too much,... and the circle of life is complete. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 One thing I'll say: The upcoming off-season should be a fun one for fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Sure, but let's not also exaggerate the impact. So Jack and Jamie are buds. Jack has been playing the game long enough to know how this works. He's had a lot of teammates. He's a man playing in the best league in the world. He's got mentors all around him. Do we need to coddle Jack by overpaying for a man sized comfort blanket? Should Jamie have signed a discounted extension to help his buddy out? Or are both guys pros who understand this is how the game works? Jacker can just give ol' Jamie a call on his bananaphone if he's feelin' down. :angel: I don't think Jack has gotten over the loss of Evan Rodrigues and now this. How much can a young man be expected to cope with? Oh, the humanity! GO SABRES!!! have you enjoyed watching Justin Bailey so far? I know I have. I'm not happy he was sent back down. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Don't know if McGinn will find the payday he wants in UFA, with the weak canadian dollar, a lot of teams will be up against the cap. I can see him coming back at 4x 3.5 mill. Murray knows he'll be in a position of strength come free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Hilarious thing this morning at physical therapy: Patient walks in. Therapist: Good morning, how are you feeling? Patient: I'm fine and I'd be better if the Sabres weren't so bad. Therapist: Oh that's right, they traded that guy away yesterday. Patient: Yea, and only him. Whole team stinks, they need all new players, and they trade away one guy. Just proves they're not even trying to win! They should've traded away half the team! Yes, this actually happened as described. I must say, that's a take on the McGinn trade I hadn't expected :lol: Edited March 1, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I think this point was missed a bit. I also believe that he tried. I believe McGinn knows this may be his only shot at getting one of the 30 teams to give him a stupid contract. This point has not so much been missed, but rather fervently avoided. The obvious logic of McGinn wanting to test the FA market, and his subsequent leverage over GMTM to wit, is apparently not enough to convince some people that McGinn wasn't interested in staying here for the rest of the season. Would he have? Sure. But he, his agent, and GMTM are all smart enough to know that getting traded at the deadline to a playoff team and potentially pumping your value up to test the FA market is the right move every time for a player of McGinn's skill set and talent level. Would it have been better for GMTM to refuse to trade McGinn, preventing him from the typical path to the payday he very likely thinks he can get? No. The smart move every time is to rent Jamie McGinn (and every player like him) out if there is demand for them. Then you hope they either want to re-sign with you in FA thanks to your show of good will, or they don't perform as well after the trade and you dodged a bullet, or you get them cheaper at FA than you would have before the deadline. The only time a player is going to re-sign before the deadline in a FA year is if they don't want to leave the team, or don't think they'll get as much money in FA. Not overpaying Jamie McGinn is crucial to the finances of this team over the next few seasons, especially if the cap doesn't go up enough this summer. The only argument for keeping McGinn in this situation is one that deals in cliches. Things like "finishing strong", or "high compete", or "winning mentality", and other nebulous Ted Nolan stuff. Sure, it all feels good but it's not the kind of thing you base team building decisions on. Not if you're the kind of shrewd GM a team that is trying to win needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) This trade is everything I wanted Darcy to do and never did. Fall in love with just good enough talent and hope for the best. GMTM did the trade because of everything SDS just posted. Nothing personal about it. Just building a winner using proven models. I quite understand the emotional attachment to Jamie from many posters. But that emotion doesn't win, it gets you a core of nice players. Edited March 1, 2016 by Woods-Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 This trade is everything I wanted Darcy to do and never did. Fall in love with just good enough talent and hope for the best. GMTM did the trade because of everything SDS just posted. Nothing personal about it. Just building a winner using proven models. I quite understand the emotional attachment to Jamie from many posters. But that emotion doesn't win, it gets you a core of nice players. I bet GMTM would have signed Briere and traded Drury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Hilarious thing this morning at physical therapy: Patient walks in. Therapist: Good morning, how are you feeling? Patient: I'm fine and I'd be better if the Sabres weren't so bad. Therapist: Oh that's right, they traded that guy away yesterday. Patient: Yea, and only him. Whole team stinks, they need all new players, and they trade away one guy. Just proves they're not even trying to win! They should've traded away half the team! Yes, this actually happened as described. I must say, that's a take on the McGinn trade I hadn't expected :lol: The patient has a point. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 This point has not so much been missed, but rather fervently avoided. The obvious logic of McGinn wanting to test the FA market, and his subsequent leverage over GMTM to wit, is apparently not enough to convince some people that McGinn wasn't interested in staying here for the rest of the season. Would he have? Sure. But he, his agent, and GMTM are all smart enough to know that getting traded at the deadline to a playoff team and potentially pumping your value up to test the FA market is the right move every time for a player of McGinn's skill set and talent level. I think this gets overlooked as well, by those who would rend garments and gnash teeth over McGinn's departure: That guy almost certainly wanted to go to a contender, and tee up a big payday come July 2016. Good point. Again, you know where I stand on the whole thing. But I sympathize with those who rue the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I bet GMTM would have signed Briere and traded Drury. 100% agree. Drury was walking. He would have got something for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Drury was walking. He would have got something for him. A 1st rounder in the 20s that could've wound up as Max Pacioretty (22nd in 2007), or a guy named Jonathon Blum (23rd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 A 1st rounder in the 20s that could've wound up as Max Pacioretty (22nd in 2007), or a guy named Jonathon Blum (23rd). And everyone here is angry about Jamie McGinn. :censored: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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