Buffalo Bills 2016

[WildCard]

Given that Brandon just took over duties for the Sabres, I don't like where you guys are heading with this

[nfreeman]

Is Brandon the only common thread in the drought?

 

Well, for the first 13 years or so, Ralph was the big one.

 

There's also alleged salary cap wizard Jim Overdorf.

[That Aud Smell]

Given that Brandon just took over duties for the Sabres, I don't like where you guys are heading with this

 

Oh, make no mistake. Brandon's involvement with the Sabres is a harbinger of ill tidings.

 

The saving grace is two-fold: (1) He generally seems more focused on the Bills. (2) GM TM seems like a better counterpoint/-balance to Brandon than anyone who's on staff with the Bills.

Edited September 16, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[TrueBlueGED]

I have no problem with the Pegulas expressing displeasure with the state of the offense. They should be unhappy with it. However, if they forced the change (and heaven forbid if they didn't also bitch about the defense...) that's an issue.

 

I think the most likely scenario is the Pegulas met with Rex to discuss the state of the team (see: ask wtf is going on), in which he convinced them a change at OC was appropriate and he and Rob could fix the defense. That checks all the boxes for various reports.

 

What a mess.

Well, for the first 13 years or so, Ralph was the big one.

 

There's also alleged salary cap wizard Jim Overdorf.

Don't forget team treasurer Scrooge McLittman.

Oh, make no mistake. Brandon's involvement with the Sabres is a harbinger of ill tidings.

 

The saving grace is two-fold: (1) He generally seems more focused on the Bills. (2) GM TM seems like a better counterpoint/-balance to Brandon than anyone who's on staff with the Bills.

To #2, I cannot imagine Murray just rolling over for Brandon. No way no how. The Sabres are Murray's show.

[Claude Balls]

Gilmore was terrible last night. I've been a huge fan, but his struggles last night weren't a matter of inches. On Fitz' first big completion he got burned. Fitz didn't lead his receiver and still completed it.

Several other plays he got flat out beat.

I was at the game last night and you're right, Gilmore and Darby were horrible, Gilmore more so than Darby. We were watching them in coverage and knew where Fitz was gonna go with the ball. That's how out of position they were all night. There was one play where Gilmore watched Marshall make the catch, then went to tackle him. He was standing two yards downfield from Marshall playing like he didn't want to get beat deep. He didn't even make an effort to defend the pass.

[That Aud Smell]

To #2, I cannot imagine Murray just rolling over for Brandon. No way no how. The Sabres are Murray's show.

 

Agreed.

 

As a practical matter, per Forbes, the Bills have 3x the revenue and 10x the EBITDA that the Sabres do. I think Russ tends to focus more on the Bills. For which I am grateful.

[SwampD]

Until Rex is held accountable, then he is not accountable, no matter how much he keeps saying he's accountable.

[Hoss]

DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame), Deshaun Watson (Clemson) and Brad Kaaya (Miami) are the three "hot" QB prospects going into the 2017 draft.

Sean McDermott (Panthers DC), Mike Shula (Panthers OC), Harold Goodwin (Cardinals OC) and coordinators that have great years this year are the ones to keep an eye on.

Jon Robinson (Bucs Director of Pro Personnel), Omar Khan (Steelers Director of Football Ops), Trent Kirchner (Seahawks Director of Pro Personnel), Will McClay (Cowboys Assistant Director of Player Personnel), Terry McDonough (Cardinals Vice President of Player Personnel) and Brandon Beane (Panthers Assistant GM) are some of the hot GM candidates.

 

Just worth noting.

 

I like what Arizona and Carolina have done recently, so I don't mind dipping into their trees. When looking into the future I don't think the team should focus on an offensive or defensive mind specifically. Look for somebody you think can handle the responsibility of the whole ship.

 

I'm also a fan of what the Jaguars are doing right now. They tore it down and hired a young GM/coach duo that they have showed a ton of faith in through some terrible season as they righted the ship. Get you a pair that you think are brilliant minds who can be around for a while and show trust in them as you rebuild.

[TrueBlueGED]

Definitely sign me up for targeting the Cards organization. They've done some really impressive work and it can't all be Arians. Of course, everyone said this about the Pats and then the entire crew faceplanted when away from Belichick. But still, sign me up.

[JJFIVEOH]

I always thought the best move was letting go of Jim Schwartz. 

[Claude Balls]

DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame), Deshaun Watson (Clemson) and Brad Kaaya (Miami) are the three "hot" QB prospects going into the 2017 draft.

Unfortunately these guys aren't projected to be "franchise type" QB's. The 2017 draft class is pretty weak for quarterbacks, meaning the Bills will most likely have a top 2 pick for once. This team can't even lose right.

[Hoss]

Unfortunately these guys aren't projected to be "franchise type" QB's. The 2017 draft class is pretty weak for quarterbacks, meaning the Bills will most likely have a top 2 pick for once. This team can't even lose right.

I don't know enough about the QBs yet, to be honest. I let myself fall into the Tyrod trap.

Time will tell on Kizer. Watson had the opportunity to be an unflappable presence unseen since Newton was in college, but he just doesn't have that. I know very little about Kaaya. That's my very limited thoughts on what I know so far (so basically it's a no for me on Watson and a maybe on the others).

 

The only QB in college I know much about is Josh Rosen who many view to be the only franchise QB in college (but isn't eligible until 2018).

Edited September 16, 2016 by Hoss

[Claude Balls]

I don't know enough about the QBs yet, to be honest. I let myself fall into the Tyrod trap.

Time will tell on Kizer. Watson had the opportunity to be an unflappable presence unseen since Newton was in college, but he just doesn't have that. I know very little about Kaaya. That's my very limited thoughts on what I know so far (so basically it's a no for me on Watson and a maybe on the others).

 

 

 

The only QB in college I know much about is Josh Rosen who many view to be the only franchise QB in college (but isn't eligible until 2018).

QB's are more often than not a crap shoot anyhow. I don't know much about Kaaya, but I know Kizer had a hard time beating out Zaire for the starting job at ND. To me I see Watson as another Taj Boyd, great college QB but nothing more.

[Hoss]

QB's are more often than not a crap shoot anyhow. I don't know much about Kaaya, but I know Kizer had a hard time beating out Zaire for the starting job at ND. To me I see Watson as another Taj Boyd, great college QB but nothing more.

I trust professionals are smart enough to make the process more than a crapshoot, but it's definitely tough.

 

For us it's especially tough because we, generally, have no clue how to sift through systems which is what dominates college football and skews opinions on offensive players.

 

 

Something in me likes Mitch Leidner (Minnesota), but he's a project and not a savior.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Hoss

[calti]

Ian Rapoport said Rex has the full support of ownership.

 

SI reporting the "management" forced Rex to fire Roman: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/rex-ryan-bills-use-greg-roman-as-sacrificial-lamb-to-appease-the-fans/1fpf513y2je6z1en0lh0lydq5m

I certainly hope thats not true.Or else we may have a little Danny on our hands.

QB's are more often than not a crap shoot anyhow. I don't know much about Kaaya, but I know Kizer had a hard time beating out Zaire for the starting job at ND. To me I see Watson as another Taj Boyd, great college QB but nothing more.

The Bills certainly are crappy crap players.

I really don't think picking QBs is much of a crap shoot at all.

EJ was a known quantity that everyone who watched FSU could have told you was not starting QB material.

Yet the geniuses at OBD draft him in the 1st round.--And they played him and played him lonnnnnng after even the most casual of fans

were screaming for them to stop.

 

Yes--there are few guarantees but it is not purely some gamble. By good scouting by talented scouts you don't need to go 17 yrs without a decent QB.

 

PS--TT could be an average starting QB if he is well coached and allowed to do what he can do---which is run and pass it way down field.Why not emhasize his strengths?

History is littered with  failed attempts at turning running college QBs into NFL pocket passers.

Edited September 17, 2016 by calti

[Claude Balls]

I certainly hope thats not true.Or else we may have a little Danny on our hands.

 

The Bills certainly are crappy crap players.

I really don't think picking QBs is much of a crap shoot at all.

EJ was a known quantity that everyone who watched FSU could have told you was not starting QB material.

Yet the geniuses at OBD draft him in the 1st round.--And they played him and played him lonnnnnng after even the most casual of fans

were screaming for them to stop.

 

Yes--there are few guarantees but it is not purely some gamble. By good scouting by talented scouts you don't need to go 17 yrs without a decent QB.

 

PS--TT could be an average starting QB if he is well coached and allowed to do what he can do---which is run and pass it way down field.Why not emhasize his strengths?

History is littered with failed attempts at turning running college QBs into NFL pocket passers.

You're only point I tend to disagree with is drafting QB's. Its definitely a crap shoot. Way too many misses than hits on so called "franchise" QB's. The list is way too long to remember them all, but just a few I can think of are guys like Todd Marinovich, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Gino Toretta to name a few. And then these scouts miss on guys like Tom Brady who only come around once in a blue moon. For some reason a lot of these teams want mobile QB's who can extend the play or run when they have to. That's never worked in the NFL. You need a pocket passer with a quick release who can see the whole field, that's what wins in this league. Russell Wilson may be the exception. But you're right, 17 years is too long to keep swinging and missing. Edited September 17, 2016 by Claude Balls

[Hoss]

You're only point I tend to disagree with is drafting QB's. Its definitely a crap shoot. Way too many misses than hits on so called "franchise" QB's. The list is way too long to remember them all, but just a few I can think of are guys like Todd Marinovich, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Gino Toretta to name a few. And then these scouts miss on guys like Tom Brady who only come around once in a blue moon. For some reason a lot of these teams want mobile QB's who can extend the play or run when they have to. That's never worked in the NFL. You need a pocket passer with a quick release who can see the whole field, that's what wins in this league. Russell Wilson may be the exception. But you're right, 17 years is too long to keep swinging and missing.

Disagree strongly on the bolded. Guys that are generally agreed upon as being "franchise QBs" don't miss often, but those guys are also extremely rare.

I also think the draft system screws QBs. You're at the top of the draft because you suck. A lot of teams are at the top of the draft for a long time because they have a culture of sucking. So they bring in a QB who is expected to play well in that is tough.

 

That's why the Bills need to dive deep into the mind of every QB. There are prospects who have done great elsewhere who I believe would've failed miserably here.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I hated the Rex hiring and after last night's game I had had enough of the Rex era. Roman was correctly fired, but that wasn't enough. King Rex and his equally incompetent brother should have also been shown the door. There is no excuse for what we saw last night. On either side of the ball.

 

The strange thing is that despite the terrible coaching we have been in both games and probably could have won last night if the team could have executed a 4th and one play.

 

I like Taylor. I think he is a pretty decent player and good enough for us for now. We also have talent on both side of the ball. Although the additions of Rex guys like Bush, Harvin, amongst others is a problem.

 

TBN blames the Pegulas for this mess. I don't necessarily disagree. They hired the shiny toy in Rex and therefore bare the responsibility. However, like with the Sabres, they will bite the bullet by season's end and start over. Hopefully they'll get it right the second time.

 

We all know what a real organization looks like in Buffalo. The Bill Polian run Bills are the best example. I think the current Sabres regime is getting to that point. GMTM has made mistakes, but so far so good overall. Sadly we have to endure Rex for at least the remainder of the season, but by then Terry and Kim should be ready to move on.

[Gramps]

I hated the Rex hiring and after last night's game I had had enough of the Rex era. Roman was correctly fired, but that wasn't enough. King Rex and his equally incompetent brother should have also been shown the door. There is no excuse for what we saw last night. On either side of the ball.

 

The strange thing is that despite the terrible coaching we have been in both games and probably could have won last night if the team could have executed a 4th and one play.

 

I like Taylor. I think he is a pretty decent player and good enough for us for now. We also have talent on both side of the ball. Although the additions of Rex guys like Bush, Harvin, amongst others is a problem.

 

TBN blames the Pegulas for this mess. I don't necessarily disagree. They hired the shiny toy in Rex and therefore bare the responsibility. However, like with the Sabres, they will bite the bullet by season's end and start over. Hopefully they'll get it right the second time.

 

We all know what a real organization looks like in Buffalo. The Bill Polian run Bills are the best example. I think the current Sabres regime is getting to that point. GMTM has made mistakes, but so far so good overall. Sadly we have to endure Rex for at least the remainder of the season, but by then Terry and Kim should be ready to move on.

 

You won't have to wait that long ... losses to Arizona and the Pats will seal his fate.

[PASabreFan]

I hated the Rex hiring and after last night's game I had had enough of the Rex era. Roman was correctly fired, but that wasn't enough. King Rex and his equally incompetent brother should have also been shown the door. There is no excuse for what we saw last night. On either side of the ball.

 

The strange thing is that despite the terrible coaching we have been in both games and probably could have won last night if the team could have executed a 4th and one play.

 

I like Taylor. I think he is a pretty decent player and good enough for us for now. We also have talent on both side of the ball. Although the additions of Rex guys like Bush, Harvin, amongst others is a problem.

 

TBN blames the Pegulas for this mess. I don't necessarily disagree. They hired the shiny toy in Rex and therefore bare the responsibility. However, like with the Sabres, they will bite the bullet by season's end and start over. Hopefully they'll get it right the second time.

 

We all know what a real organization looks like in Buffalo. The Bill Polian run Bills are the best example. I think the current Sabres regime is getting to that point. GMTM has made mistakes, but so far so good overall. Sadly we have to endure Rex for at least the remainder of the season, but by then Terry and Kim should be ready to move on.

Why should there be a second time? Why shouldn't the GM pick the next coach, the way (presumably) Murray picked Bylsma? Why on God's green earth does Ryan "report" to the Pegulas?

 

You wanted it, Buffalo. You got it. One Mess.

 

But, hey, he paid the money to buy the team. He owns it. He has earned the right to pick the coach, fire the coach, tell the coach to fire his coordinator. Right? (Edit: And Kim! She earned it, too. Yuck.)

Edited September 17, 2016 by PASabreFan

[Huckleberry]

Never understood why they just didn't make Schwarz the head coach.   

[Eleven]

Never understood why they just didn't make Schwarz the head coach.   

 

He's not a good head coach.  His head coaching record is 29-51.

 

Ryan's record before he was hired was 50-52, including two AFC championship games (both losses).  That's a good record for an out-of-work coach, because most of the coaches with winning records, well, they usually aren't out of work.

 

While I am increasingly frustrated with Ryan, I can see why they didn't elevate Schwartz.

[That Aud Smell]

Why should there be a second time? Why shouldn't the GM pick the next coach, the way (presumably) Murray picked Bylsma? Why on God's green earth does Ryan "report" to the Pegulas?

 

You wanted it, Buffalo. You got it. One Mess.

 

But, hey, he paid the money to buy the team. He owns it. He has earned the right to pick the coach, fire the coach, tell the coach to fire his coordinator. Right? (Edit: And Kim! She earned it, too. Yuck.)

The coach-owner direct report thing is hugely problematic.

 

I'm open to the idea that the Pegulas are meddlesome, and therefore far less than optimal, Bills owners. I still think this is more a function of Brandon.

 

Has Pegula ever said it's the same with Bylsma? I don't recall hearing that.

 

Also: No need to revive the sexism-baiting swipe at Mrs. Pegula. Bad look before, bad look now.

[tom webster]

A lot of very successful enterprises are run with a flat management structure. Problems arise if the top dog doesn't truly allow for differing opinions. If all top management is truly empowered and feel secure in their place, it's not meddling, it's discussion, give and take and eventually consensus.

[That Aud Smell]

Fair point, T web.

 

In those flat management orgs and companies, though, the very top people are presumably steeped in the industry, and know it inside and out. I'm not sure that's the case here.