Roster review: #4 Josh Gorges

[shrader]

Although there's no available statistical adjustment, you could eyeball it pretty easily. Maybe it mattered for Montreal (I don't think it did...his most common centers were Plekanec and Desharnais, so not like his away from Subban time was with 4th liners), but the WOWY delta with Buffalo is way too large to be accounted for by teammates. Face it, he stunk last year. Maybe it was an aberration and he rebounds, there's no defending his performance last season.

 

So we've officially hit the point where we are using the eyeball test to analyze statistics?  It has now come full circle.

[bob_sauve28]

Not disagreeing, but it's funny that last year the blueline was the area of least concern.

We've basically traded Zadorov, Strachan and Benoit for Pysyk, Colaiacovo and Donovan, so it's not like its been gutted.

I didn't think that at all. The defense was THE problem, IMO

[beerme1]

 

I think he's a defensive defenseman that fits as a #4 for the next two years as the kids grow up, then is worth reviewing as either a possible veteran #5/6 on a playoff team for the final year of his contract or a rental dump off.  He's going to get an honest opportunity to prove his role on a team that isn't complete ######, and I think that opportunity is deserved.

 

I like this post. I see nothing but truth and positive in his contributions fitting this role to a T. 

He should be blocking far less shots next season as well and I think that will help him.

 

Oh and as mentioned up thread, did we over value him because he said f you Toronto? You can't put a value on that. Just love.

 

Gorges will be fine.

[TrueBlueGED]

Good stuff, as always, and much appreciated.

 

A few observations:

 

I did a bit of fancystats research myself and found a few things that I thought were interesting:

 

- Although you are right that Subban was Gorges' most frequent partner, in 2013-'14, less than half of Gorges' 5-on-5 time was with Subban

 

- Subban's most frequent partner in 2013-'14 wasn't Gorges, it was Markov. 

 

(Not impugning your data -- just thought that was interesting).

 

As for the claim that Gorges was a drag offensively -- the bolded #s above don't seem to bear that out -- i.e. in 2013-'14, Subban's group scored more with Gorges than without him (although admittedly this was not the case the previous year).

 

As for last year's data with the Sabres -- I think the entire season was such a train wreck on both ends of the ice that it's fair to give everyone a mulligan, including Gorges.

 

1) The interesting thing with Gorges is when he wasn't with his secondary partner, he was getting easier minutes than those players were. So in semi-response to Physics, Gorges basically got tougher minutes away from Subban and his partner was Diaz (no other partner broke the 100 minute together mark in any single year). It's certainly possible that Diaz was dragging Gorges down, and the tougher minutes plus worse partner away from Subban accounts for a chunk of Gorges' drop in production. In fact, I'm very open to this argument, especially since almost all of us though we were getting a legit top-4 from Montreal. I think the bottom line is he was a top-4 in Montreal who was good enough to ride shotgun to a guy like Subban, but if he was asked to lug the mail on his own pairing, there were significant struggles.

 

2) I certainly didn't pay any attention to who Subban's partner was when it wasn't Gorges. Anyone who gets mad that Subban won a Norris should probably conduct that analysis, though.

 

3) I don't think a 1 year exception disproves the pattern established by the other 3. It's like saying the Flames did well this year so possession stats don't matter.

 

4) So...you want Hodgson back? :p

I'm perfectly willing to heavily discount everything that happened last year, but if you're only going to throw out the bad then you have to throw out the good (for example, Ennis' perceived growth). I think napalming the entire season is the wrong approach...it may not be perfectly representative of what to expect going forward, but I don't think it meant nothing, either.

 

 

So we've officially hit the point where we are using the eyeball test to analyze statistics?  It has now come full circle.

 

And I'd have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

 

 

Could it be he was playing hurt all year?  Hence the surgery.  (not being sarcastic, I really don't know how much he was affected by it)

 

Sure it could be. In fact, I think it likely played a major role in his apparent decline. However, I have zero faith he'll regain form after the surgery; he should look better than last year, but I doubt he gets back to those Montreal days.

 

 

I didn't think that at all. The defense was THE problem, IMO

 

On a last place team there is no singular problem :)

[inkman]

I didn't think that at all. The defense was THE problem, IMO

Man, I don't know how you can look at who played up front for them last year and not take issue with it. When LARSSON finally got his Chance, he looked like Datsyuk compared to the stiffs lining up there most of the season. There is a reason GMTM, added FOUR top six players to this season's squad.

[Drunkard]

The poll results have been interesting. Seems like almost everyone expects him in the top 4. I went with the first option because I don't see anyone on our left side that would supplant him on the top pair. My question for those who think he'll be on the second pair is who exactly do you see ahead of him at LD #1? Are you convinced we are still going to sign or trade for an upgrade who isn't currently under contract? Do you believe Ristolainen or Bogosian will be moved over to the left side? Are you convinced that not only will McCabe make the team outright but he'll be slotted ahead of Gorges on the left? Do you think Psysk moves over and get slotted over Gorges? I just don't see who supplants him as the top Defenseman on the left hand side.

[That Aud Smell]

Do you believe Ristolainen or Bogosian will be moved over to the left side? ... Do you think Psysk moves over 

 

Our top 3 d-men are all RH. I think that one of them is going to play the left side.

[IKnowPhysics]

1) The interesting thing with Gorges is when he wasn't with his secondary partner, he was getting easier minutes than those players were. So in semi-response to Physics, Gorges basically got tougher minutes away from Subban and his partner was Diaz (no other partner broke the 100 minute together mark in any single year). It's certainly possible that Diaz was dragging Gorges down, and the tougher minutes plus worse partner away from Subban accounts for a chunk of Gorges' drop in production. In fact, I'm very open to this argument, especially since almost all of us though we were getting a legit top-4 from Montreal. I think the bottom line is he was a top-4 in Montreal who was good enough to ride shotgun to a guy like Subban, but if he was asked to lug the mail on his own pairing, there were significant struggles.

 

And that's what I see from last year, but on a larger scale: how can we examine performance of a player on a team that was designed to suck dick accurately enough, even analytically, to project roles on a team that in all likelihood will not completely suck dick?  And the particular player we're trying to examine was on the ice with the dicksuckingest of those who sucked dick.  Even by making the presumption that the team won't suck dick next year necessitates that there's some improvement in players' play (in addition to a new coach that doesn't suck dick and some roster changes to remove some dick suckers, I know).

 

edit: welp, guess the filter's on a coffee break.

Edited July 17, 2015 by IKnowPhysics

[nfreeman]

Dear Sabrespace:  I have suspended IKP for 3 days in light of his post above, combined with multiple previous warnings for inappropriate language.  FWIW, other posters have told me via reports and/or PM that they have found his posts offensive when he uses this type of language.  I am not that bothered by it, but I do think we need to have standards around here and that points can and should be made without this type of vulgarity.

 

IKP seems to think that he is not accountable for the content of his posts -- i.e. if the language filter doesn't block something, then it's not his problem.  That is not the case.  Everyone here is accountable for the content of his/her posts.

 

As always, please feel free to post and/or PM me if you have any thoughts on this matter.

 

We now resume regularly scheduled programming.

[Drunkard]

Our top 3 d-men are all RH. I think that one of them is going to play the left side.

 

Are you confident that no matter which one moves over that they'll be good enough to supplant Gorges on the left side right off the bat? To my knowledge Bogosian was tried on the left side out in Winnipeg with limited success at best, Ristolainen hasn't really played the left side to my knowledge, and Psysk hasn't even had a permanent spot in the NHL yet to this point so just penciling him in as the top option doesn't seem like a good idea.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Drunkard

[That Aud Smell]

Are you confident that no matter which one moves over that they'll be good enough to supplant Gorges on the left side right off the bat? 

 

Good question. I know nothing about Bogo's usage. Pysyk evidently played some LD, and I think an awful lot of his game. As for Risto, he's our best d-man by some margin. If he can play that side, he can supplant Gorges, no problem.

[beerme1]

 

 

edit: welp, guess the filter's on a coffee break.

 

 

I laughed. :lol:

 

 

Dear Sabrespace:  I have suspended IKP for 3 days in light of his post above, combined with multiple previous warnings for inappropriate language.  FWIW, other posters have told me via reports and/or PM that they have found his posts offensive when he uses this type of language.  I am not that bothered by it, but I do think we need to have standards around here and that points can and should be made without this type of vulgarity.

 

IKP seems to think that he is not accountable for the content of his posts -- i.e. if the language filter doesn't block something, then it's not his problem.  That is not the case.  Everyone here is accountable for the content of his/her posts.

 

As always, please feel free to post and/or PM me if you have any thoughts on this matter.

 

We now resume regularly scheduled programming.

 

 

I had no problem with it and found it amusing. I can't imagine that anyone that is a hockey fan would be so terribly offended and pm you on it. Especially anyone that is still a fan after the last two years and frequents this site. Good grief Charlie Brown no?

 

By the way, what have you done with the others? :ph34r:

[qwksndmonster]

Gorges.  Josh Gorges.  Can we get a Pomminstein filter for Georges?

Josh is Gorges (Ithaca, you're stupid)

[dEnnis the Menace]

Gorges.  Josh Gorges.  Can we get a Pomminstein filter for Georges?

Josh is Gorges (Ithaca, you're stupid)

 

HAHA! nice

[WildCard]

And that's what I see from last year, but on a larger scale: how can we examine performance of a player on a team that was designed to suck dick accurately enough, even analytically, to project roles on a team that in all likelihood will not completely suck dick?  And the particular player we're trying to examine was on the ice with the dicksuckingest of those who sucked dick.  Even by making the presumption that the team won't suck dick next year necessitates that there's some improvement in players' play (in addition to a new coach that doesn't suck dick and some roster changes to remove some dick suckers, I know).

 

edit: welp, guess the filter's on a coffee break.

This had me in tears  :lol:  :lol:

[Randall Flagg]

This had me in tears :lol: :lol:

I laughed too until i saw it draw the ban-hammer.

 

So the three 20-21 year olds on the board were the ones amused, eheh.

[drnkirishone]

I laughed too until i saw it draw the ban-hammer.

So the three 20-21 year olds on the board were the ones amused, eheh.

I laughed also. Then I saw the pc culture wielded it's power and I shook my head in shame

[Johnny DangerFace]

I'v never had a problem with people using that language here, but no doubt it adds to the "closed community atmosphere" people complain about sometimes.  

Edited July 18, 2015 by Johnny DangerFace

[qwksndmonster]

I'v never had a problem with people using that language here, but no doubt it adds to the "closed community atmosphere" people complain about sometimes.  

Only fancy internet farts like us use profanity.

[Huckleberry]

I laughed. :lol:

 

 

 

 

I had no problem with it and found it amusing. I can't imagine that anyone that is a hockey fan would be so terribly offended and pm you on it. Especially anyone that is still a fan after the last two years and frequents this site. Good grief Charlie Brown no?

 

By the way, what have you done with the others? :ph34r:

 

I can see some getting offended, don't know why but probably a few are :p

[Doohickie]

Dear Sabrespace:  I have suspended IKP for 3 days in light of his post above, combined with multiple previous warnings for inappropriate language.  FWIW, other posters have told me via reports and/or PM that they have found his posts offensive when he uses this type of language.  I am not that bothered by it, but I do think we need to have standards around here and that points can and should be made without this type of vulgarity.

 

IKP seems to think that he is not accountable for the content of his posts -- i.e. if the language filter doesn't block something, then it's not his problem.  That is not the case.  Everyone here is accountable for the content of his/her posts.

 

As always, please feel free to post and/or PM me if you have any thoughts on this matter.

 

We now resume regularly scheduled programming.

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness, this is a sports forum.  Even taking into account that there are people of many ages and genders on this forum, I find it difficult to believe that SS would ban someone for using middle school language in a middle school way.  That wasn't crude, it was funny.

 

The most offensive part of this whole incident is that now I can't see posts from IKP for three days.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Robins Egg

[WildCard]

In all seriousness, this is a sports forum.  Even taking into account that there are people of many ages and genders on this forum, I find it difficult to believe that SS would ban someone for using middle school language in a middle school way.  That wasn't crude, it was funny.

 

The most offensive part of this whole incident is that now I can't see posts from IKP for three days.

Agreed. If you have a problem with a poster's language, PM them or put them on 'ignore'. I'd like to think we're all adults here 

[SwampD]

It was a good ban. It was a good post,… worth a three day ban.

 

Kudos to all involved.

[Randall Flagg]

It was a good ban. It was a good post,… worth a three day ban.

 

Kudos to all involved.

Yep.

[JohnnyK]

I think Number 4 will be a  solid this year

if he is part of the number one he will have a better partner this year and not have to do it all himself.

if he is on the second  pairing even better 

also I think the left handed vs. right handed D man is way over rated!

go sabres!!!

Also I thought the %&($#  post was funny

I would never have written that but it did make me LOL!