TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Just because Lehner is 23 doesn't mean he's a long term solution. His numbers aren't favorable and neither is his head. I didn't say he was, I said it's better to take a chance that he is than to pay a 1st for a vet stopgap with zero chance of being the long term solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Anyone got any fancystats on Lehner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Ok, I'm drifting into "###### it, we got a goalie, we needed a goalie, we'll see what happens w/ that draft pick, but I'm ok with it for now." Concussions scare me, though. That said, the concussion thing is worrisome. Are there any examples of goalies who've had similar issues and gone on to years of success? Yep - precisely where I am. I also just heard that there was a bidding war for Lehner. Hence, the price. John Vogl @BuffNewsVogl 2m2 minutes ago The No. 21 picks from 2011-2014 drafts have combined for one NHL game. Tim Murray was looking for immediate help with Robin Lehner. Good perspective. Another thought: from everything I've read leading up to the draft, the dropoff in talent happens before the #21 pick--around 18 or so. That next tier lasts well into the second round. In other words, we're likely to get as good of a prospect at 31 as 21 if that is in fact how the talent tiering brakes down. I still don't like it. Didn't GM TM just say the other day that he can probably get the guy he wants at 31 as easily as 21? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Unless he really thinks Lehner will be a difference-maker for the Sabres starting now and for the next 5-7 years, and if he didn't get him now someone else was going to (maybe for a lower price, but that's not the key to everything). I would be much more ready to accept and rationalize this trade if it weren't for the concussion. Lehner's numbers look good, and I can accept the argument that pick 21's are usually gambles. But, we have seen Miller get concussed. We have, or had, other goalies in the system who were concussed. I know people (a goalie, in particular) who was concussed. This is like paying top dollar for a used vehicle, knowing the CARFAX has a "airbags deployed" entry on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Anyone got any fancystats on Lehner? With only 76 starts I'd put about zero faith in any type of "home plate sv%" stats or the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 John Vogl @BuffNewsVogl 2m2 minutes ago The No. 21 picks from 2011-2014 drafts have combined for one NHL game. Tim Murray was looking for immediate help with Robin Lehner. No Vogl, most of them are still in the minors, that doesn't make them bad :doh: Murray doesn't want to sell the farm to get into the playoffs next year, or rush his players, but he wants immediate help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 My 2 cents: - it seems like an expensive price to pay, but it really all depends on how good Lehner turns out, innit? He's clearly GMTM's guy. If he turns out to be a good-to-very-good #1 goalie, it was a good trade. - It's not like the Sabres gave up a sure-fire good NHL player. Recent #21 overall picks: - 2012: Mark Jankowski - 2011: Stefan Noesen - 2010: Riley Sheahan - 2009: John Moore - 2008: Anton Gustafsson - 2007: Riley Nash - 2006: Bob Sanguinetti Perspective. Lehner and Sheahan roughly equal. Lehner is clearly better than the rest. I'm going to lunch. Someone else can announce bad news until I get back. GMTM is on the phone with Sakic as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Let the freaking day play out. Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm neutral on this. I think it's worth it if he becomes a top-10 goalie over the next couple of years, and the success rate of Pick #21 isn't that high (only 20% chance to become a top 2 line player). My opinion is I'm OK with it but Tim Murray better be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I didn't say he was, I said it's better to take a chance that he is than to pay a 1st for a vet stopgap with zero chance of being the long term solution. Wasting a first on either of them is ridiculous. I think there's a better chance of Anderson lasting four years than Lehner. Sorry, I just don't like the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Don't trade next years first for O'reilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 My esteem for TM is eroding rapidly. This is a horrible trade even if Lehner is the next Hasek. It shows poor understanding of the market and a gross overpayment for a position that we could address in FA. This is the first instance where I am beginning to see the foundation of the Murray is planning to take the Sens job talk. Hate this to the point of ruining my Eichel Day. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Ottawa Senators @Senators 5m5 minutes ago EXCLUSIVE: #Sens GM Bryan Murray comments on acquiring the 21st overall selection. WATCH: http://ottsens.com/1BSdHYj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Darcy v. GMTM Complaint about Darcy (e.g., Bucky) - Darcy would turn down trade opportunities because he never wanted to overpay for a player (or be accused of overpaying for a player). GMTM - has no problem paying more than the market for players (my opinion). I have to believe that we could have gotten Lehner (or someone who can give us the same production) without having to give up the 21st pick in the draft AND taking on salary to give the other team cap relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Why do I have a feeling he is gonna give away Grigrenko and Hodgson for nothing soon. Hard to get value for the valueless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Really? Best goalie in the history of the game isn't worth the 21st pick. Everyone knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) The old cliche says "Whoever gets the best player, wins the deal." We got the best player. He is 23 and we will have his rights for another five years. The board created a new cliche in the last days of Darcy: "I'm tired of winning trades and losing games." ###### "value." Edited June 26, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Ottawa Senators @Senators 5m5 minutes ago EXCLUSIVE: #Sens GM Bryan Murray comments on acquiring the 21st overall selection. WATCH: http://ottsens.com/1BSdHYj No video there... Did you see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 The old cliche says "Whoever gets the best player, wins the deal." We got the best player. The board created a new cliche in the last days of Darcy: "I'm tired of winning trades and losing games." ###### "value." Kinda hard to claim that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Would rather seen the pick go to Van for Lack. I see Legwand hanging 'me up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 One thing you have to look at on draft day is the totality of the day. If GMTM got the Sabres starter in goal for 5 years at modest salary - he got a steal. Legwand really isn't a bad choice for 4th line center. I really think this is less risk that drafting Samsonov at 21. I'm somewhat underwhelmed not by the return as much as this trade limits any chance of jumping at O'reilly or getting into the top 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I have to believe that we could have gotten Lehner (or someone who can give us the same production) without having to give up the 21st pick in the draft AND taking on salary to give the other team cap relief. Are you sure? They've been talking for two weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Really? Yes. Look at Montreal. They convinced themselves they were good enough to win it all riding Price's coattails. They were exposed. Hasek did not win Shyte until he had the Wing's HOF club in front of him. The Hawks on the other hand put the next guy up in and win bc they have the team around him. I don't value the goalie position as some do. But further, you help a division rival out of a bind and pay a premium to boot? Horse####! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 No ###### Vogl, most of them are still in the minors, that doesn't make them bad :doh: Murray doesn't want to sell the farm to get into the playoffs next year, or rush his players, but he wants immediate help? That's not what he said. He said the #21 picks for the last 3 drafts have contributed zero at the NHL level so far. GMTM has said multiple times that he wants to accelerate the development curve. Good goaltending at the NHL level next year will help in that process. I would be much more ready to accept and rationalize this trade if it weren't for the concussion. Lehner's numbers look good, and I can accept the argument that pick 21's are usually gambles. But, we have seen Miller get concussed. We have, or had, other goalies in the system who were concussed. I know people (a goalie, in particular) who was concussed. This is like paying top dollar for a used vehicle, knowing the CARFAX has a "airbags deployed" entry on it. This is a very fair point. Presumably they've done medical due diligence, but there are certainly no guarantees with concussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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