Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 So, how many centres do the Sabres have now? I am hoping this means Murray has something else going that gets us back into the first round. He could always trade down.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Given both Murray's comments, it looks like the offer was 31 for Lehner/Legwand. Bryan Murray didn't want to make the deal in the division and was holding out for a team in the west to match that. Tim Murray decided the player we drafted at 21 would be around the same level as the player we took at 31 and decided to up the ante. And this is how decisions get made in the real world as opposed to the fantasy hockey world. If Lehner is the right guy, then this was a good trade. If he washes out and the other goalies who are moved this summer cost their teams less and perform better? Then it was a bad trade. But I like the idea of a youngster with potential much more than an older career backup. Everyone loved Marty Biron too, but he wasn't a #1 goalie in the NHL. :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: when i first read this waking up. Then i took a shower and thought, If Lehner turns out to be our #1 goalie for the next ten years this is good deal and we are out of overpaying for RoR rumours. Then i was thinking, with #18 and #21 and the capspace we gave a division rival, Ottawa can now go after RoR :sick: To make it worse I'm now thinking what A list prospects murray will give up for RoR. I think this is highly unlikely. Ottawa isn't going to spend the kind of cash it will take to get ROR signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Tim Murray: "If you'd have told me we'd end up w Eichel, Kane and Lehner for 3 first round picks, I'd have said you were high on mushrooms." I think you are high mushrooms Timmy. I'm glad in Tim Murray's mind he was able to acquire Evander Kane for just 1 first-round draft pick. High on mushrooms, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Everyone keeps saying we could just go out and get a FA goalie and it would be just as good, have they seen the list of who's out there? Murray still might get one to compete, but how many of the guys available are truly #1 starters in this league or could become one like Lehner? It's not like Enroth, Neuvirth went on to lead their teams as the #1 guy very far or continues to impress after leaving Buffalo last year. Their teams arent even looking to keep them around and letting them go for nothing after trading for them at the deadline I'm glad in Tim Murray's mind he was able to acquire Evander Kane for just 1 first-round draft pick. High on mushrooms, indeed.he did, he just managed to get the unknown goalie and bogosian for myers Stafford ArmIA and Lemieux. ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Well we needed a #1 goalie for years to come, and murray thinks he got one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Legwand and an Anchor Bar pile of wings for Sam Gagner :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Everyone keeps saying we could just go out and get a FA goalie and it would be just as good, have they seen the list of who's out there? Murray still might get one to compete, but how many of the guys available are truly #1 starters in this league or could become one like Lehner? It's not like Enroth, Neuvirth went on to lead their teams as the #1 guy very far or continues to impress after leaving Buffalo last year. Their teams arent even looking to keep them around and letting them go for nothing after trading for them at the deadline Enroth's numbers last year are about on par with Lehner's (way better in terms of GAA when he went to Dallas) and Neuvirth's numbers last year in Buffalo were way better. It's not like this is an upgrade. There's also no explanation for why we suddenly had a goaltending crisis. We were in 30th place last year. The team has plenty of holes to fill and they're all more important than goalie. If we were a contending team and goaltender was the last piece of the puzzle, I'd understand overpaying for a really good one. But we're a 30th place team and we just overpaid for the same level of goaltending we already had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Finally... Buffalo Sabres @BuffaloSabres 5s5 seconds ago WATCH: #Sabres GM Tim Murray speaks with reporters about today's trade & tonight's draft. http://goo.gl/Ug1zn1 #SabresDraft2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Okay. I'm happy with it now. We got our goalie. That's what matters. I've been firmly against those that thought we should just go with some prayer on a late round/undrafted guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Repeat because it might get buried on the previous page. Buffalo Sabres @BuffaloSabres 5s5 seconds ago WATCH: #Sabres GM Tim Murray speaks with reporters about today's trade & tonight's draft. http://goo.gl/Ug1zn1 #SabresDraft2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotentPowerPlay22 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Absolutely hate this trade. Trash. Absolutely terrible trade! I was afraid this would happen. There are several free agent goalies as good as Lehner without health problems. Tim Murray has lost every trade he has made so far. LA, WIN, and OTT have all see him overpay. WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) The value seems high to me, but my idea of the goalie market is almost entirely based on things I've read here... TM and BM worked together for years, and they obviously both believe in Lehner (and they both know the other believes in him). It's human nature not to play poker and try to weasel (TM) your way to a better deal when the other GM is your beloved uncle. GMTM thought it was fair, and he pulled the trigger. The first "Darcy would never do this" trade that a lot of people seem to hate. Lehner was my pick of the goalies available. I like Talbot, too, but Lehner's contract situation is ideal. The concussion? Not so. EDIT: Actually Martin Jones was probably my pick of the goalies available. I think I read something on here recently that he's definitely available or getting shopped or somesuch. Edited June 26, 2015 by qwksndmonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm glad in Tim Murray's mind he was able to acquire Evander Kane for just 1 first-round draft pick. High on mushrooms, indeed. Well, if he views Bogo-Myers as a wash, Armia and Stafford as essentially valueless and Lemieux as a 2nd-rounder (which he was) -- all of which are reasonable interpretations -- then it was only 1 1st for Kane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Enroth's numbers last year are about on par with Lehner's (way better in terms of GAA when he went to Dallas) and Neuvirth's numbers last year in Buffalo were way better. It's not like this is an upgrade. There's also no explanation for why we suddenly had a goaltending crisis. We were in 30th place last year. The team has plenty of holes to fill and they're all more important than goalie. If we were a contending team and goaltender was the last piece of the puzzle, I'd understand overpaying for a really good one. But we're a 30th place team and we just overpaid for the same level of goaltending we already had. Thank you. You captured exactly what rankles me about this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I still don't like the trade, but like others I acknowledge that now that with the tank over and a ZFG GM we should have expected these types of moves. More short term pain likely to come as we try to convert young assets into a contending roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I feel better after hearing Murray. Not good, but better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Late to the party, here's my 2 cents. Clearly TM believes that Lehner is the real deal. Hope he right and that he's not only right but that concussions don't derail Lehner's career. That the Sabres gave up 21 for him reflects more on the combination of somebody else bidding for him and TM being sold. It has nothing to do with the Sabres having leverage on the Otters nor TMs uncle BM running the show in Otterland - it has to do with market price: somebody else made an offer (or TM believed there was another offer out there) that was better than 31. Curious about Legwand coming in. Would it be more than a courtesy to BM or the item that made the Otters sign off on Buffalo's 21 over the other offer. Figured the Sabres don't want to have extremely young C's all the way through the lineup. Might they see him as having enough left to be the 3rd C rather than just battling it out w/ McCormick for 4th C? If so, that would have 2 of Girgensons, Reinhart, and Larsson not playing C and quite possibly Grigorenko out the door. Lines might look something like this to start the season: Moulson - McEichel (hey, probably last chance to use that term, had to go w/ it ;)) - Ennis Kane - Girgensons - Reinhart Foligno - Legwand - Gionta Desaulariers - Larsson - McCormick Just spitballin'. (Easy there, Liger, not saying Reinhart will be on the wing all year.) And whether this deal is good or bad comes down entirely to whether TM is right on Lehner or simply has a man crush. If he did miss on this one, the Sabres desperately need a lead goalie scout - any possibility that TP can buy whichever guy Lombardi uses? He always seems to hit on goalies. I'm not thrilled w/ this deal (was hoping for Lack via pick 51), but time will show us unequivocably whether it was good or not. Not ready to evaluate it yet though lean towards not liking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm disappointed that the first round is now a lot more boring for us. Like X, I wanted to move back into the 10-16 slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thank you. You captured exactly what rankles me about this trade. First, I am not a big fan of this trade although I don't think it is as bad as some would have you believe. Second, if everything was just about the numbers, you wouldn't need a GM or scouts. Enroth showed what he is when he went to Dallas. A healthy Lehner is a huge upgrade. I'm still not sure he's worth a #1, but then I am not sure anyone short of Carey Price or King Henrik warrant a #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Well, if he views Bogo-Myers as a wash, Armia and Stafford as essentially valueless and Lemieux as a 2nd-rounder (which he was) -- all of which are reasonable interpretations -- then it was only 1 1st for Kane. Armia and Lemieux had plenty of value though, and each was having a good season when they were traded so their trade values were high when he pulled the trigger. So even if neither guy develops, he could have used them in separate trades. It's not like we didn't lose anything when we sent them away to Winnipeg. Now I'm wondering if he's just fibbing to justify the moves he's made or if he's actually this delusional with his thought process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Enroth's numbers last year are about on par with Lehner's (way better in terms of GAA when he went to Dallas) and Neuvirth's numbers last year in Buffalo were way better. It's not like this is an upgrade. There's also no explanation for why we suddenly had a goaltending crisis. We were in 30th place last year. The team has plenty of holes to fill and they're all more important than goalie. If we were a contending team and goaltender was the last piece of the puzzle, I'd understand overpaying for a really good one. But we're a 30th place team and we just overpaid for the same level of goaltending we already had. It's not about next season though. If Lehner amounts to what he projects to be, he'll easily be better than any option we have now. We're building a contender, a young goalie with high upside is much more valuable than a 30 year old goaltender who won't even be on the team when we're contending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotentPowerPlay22 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Here is what I fear: he trades #21 for a goalie like Cam Talbot. The price is too high. There are numerous goalies who are available in free agency who can do the job in the short term. I thought Neuvirth and Lindback played well last year. My worst fear comes true. Murray is pissing away first round picks like bottle caps!!! The number of top picks (players drafted in the first round and 1st round picks) he has traded is staggering!!! It takes a lot of rationalization to make sense of this idiotic trade! Edited June 26, 2015 by PotentPowerPlay22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Real good two-part article on Lehner. It's probably going to raise more concern http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/tough-love-robin-lehner http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/net-gains-for-lehner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 My worst fear comes true. Murray is pissing away first round picks like bottle caps!!! The number of top picks (players drafted in the first round and 1st round picks) he has traded is staggering!!! It takes a lot of rationalization to make sense of this idiotic trade! Counterpoint... Bogo and Kane are both former 1st round picks. So while Murray has traded 3 First round picks or players? I think. He has also brought in 2 top 4 picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Enroth's numbers last year are about on par with Lehner's (way better in terms of GAA when he went to Dallas) and Neuvirth's numbers last year in Buffalo were way better. It's not like this is an upgrade. There's also no explanation for why we suddenly had a goaltending crisis. We were in 30th place last year. The team has plenty of holes to fill and they're all more important than goalie. If we were a contending team and goaltender was the last piece of the puzzle, I'd understand overpaying for a really good one. But we're a 30th place team and we just overpaid for the same level of goaltending we already had. who said it's the same level of goaltending? How do we know what Lehner may have done in Buffalo last year playing in a system with Irbe as his coach that made scrap heap guys make the tanker fans fear for their precious 30th place finish? Enroth did so well for the stars they are letting him go for nothing as a FA. This team has a goaltending crisis because it has no one left at the position with experience playing in the NHL and the team at some point has to try and win games again. Losing every night waiting for the magically day all these picks and prospects turn into good players is not going to want to make guys stick around or come here to play.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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