X. Benedict Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) You know it....I know it...X knows it....PA knows it..........I don't expect everyone to..... The simple answer is that in the league framework (CBA), coaches, management, support staff, etc. are not part of the league (or added into bottom line accounting) . This is simply what Terry said he would do. Improve everything around the game that he can. There are no restrictions on this. Build a Harbor Center, make nice locker rooms, triple support and scouting staff, hire the best coaches....none of these things are restricted by the league framework. Terry is just doing what he said he'd do. There is no conflict or contradiction. Enjoy. Edited May 20, 2015 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 100% agreed. One of the most negative fan bases in the country. I dunno. Patriot fans are probably on suicide watch after Kraft spoke yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I am not sure how some can get so wrapped up in the number. A top tier coach is more valuable at this stage than any name we have thrown around as a free agent. Come July 1 and these teams start throwing money around for overpaid free agents it will put into perspective how little we should be caring about the dollar amount. Players get overpaid all the time. If TP feels he has to overpay for the best coaching candidate out there then so be it. As for ticket prices - if a better product means higher prices well then that is just fine also. If I am going out for a steak it costs more at Morton's than it does Ponderosa. We have been eating at Ponderosa long enough. Are Ponderosa's still open? I know there aren't any in Florida. Used to be one in Lockport where I grew up. That was our big night out. You can tell we lived large. Edited May 20, 2015 by sicknfla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I guess I don't really care that he spends like a drunken sailor while raising ticket prices to maintain revenue sharing. For starters, tickets are probably still priced under the maximum the marker will bear, so we're getting a deal there even with regular increases. Secondly, I've spent my entire life with Buffalo sports ownership operating on a pure dollars and cents basis, and I could not be more sick of it. Pegula is already spending more on these teams than he should from a purely financial standpoint if he were running it strictly as a business. Can he technically afford to spend recklessly on sports without raising prices to qualify for revenue sharing? Sure. But he's already operating in an economically inefficient manner, and it's for our competitive benefit. If the cost of that is 4% annual ticket price increases, I guess I don't see the crime against humanity here--we're getting a heck of a deal, even if it's not a utopian deal. You don't have to raise ticket prices to qualify for revenue sharing, or even necessarily to "maintain" revenue sharing. That's been the crux of my fight on this topic. But anyone who's interested can take it to the revenue sharing thread (s). I didn't say the revenue sharing issue was BS. I didn't mention revenue sharing a-tall. I asked PAFan -- who has insinuated numerous times that since the Sabres were well under the cap this year, TP has gone cheap on them -- whether he still feels that way. He declined to answer. He also declined to answer whether he is on board with hiring Babcock. Both questions remain outstanding. As for GoDD's point: I can see the other owners being annoyed about the Sabres getting revenue sharing while opening up the vault for Babcock. However, in securing revenue sharing, the Sabres are just exercising their rights under the deal with the rest of the NHL. I would guess that plenty of other revenue sharing teams have spent big money on players here and there -- this is really no different from spending it on a coach in the context of whether the non-revenue-sharing owners are being taken advantage of. And the ticket price question has been done to death and is really neither here nor there in the context of Babcock's contract. No, they remain moronic. Edited May 20, 2015 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hoowee, am I with X and dejeanneret (sic, sorry - can never spell Rick's name with confidence). NHL coach salaries were due for a bump - and now we've got the owner who's taking the lead. And, as X said, this is just Terry doing what he pledged to do. I'm also with Ghost in this regard: Old guard owners hafta be muttering "Feckin' Pegula" over this. I'm thinking along the lines of Caddyshack, with Jeremy Jacobs as the judge and Pegula as Dangerfield's nouveau riche character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 As a STH, I am excited with the investments being made in the team and still think I am receiving exceptional value for my $$. I prefer Terry taking $1.50 from me only to turn around and put $1.65 into the team vastly over OSP taking $1.00 from me, putting $0.90 in the team and pocketing the extra dime. If the stories about the most recent investment in world class coaching are accurate, I believe this continues that paradigm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I dunno. Patriot fans are probably on suicide watch after Kraft spoke yesterday. It's all BS...Kraft and Goodell had a wink wink understanding if he accepts his penalties Brady will get his suspension reduced in half...watch it play out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 The fact that there is an existing conversation over concern of Pegula paying Babcock too much money and altering the shift of coaches pay in the NHL is frickin absurd. First off, let me point out to the 25+ years in which both the Sabres and Bills have had to hire mediocre or unproven coaches in their respective leagues because ownership wouldn't pony up to pay a top notch coach. Safe to say it wasn't a Buffalo team that drove up prices of the top paid coaches in the NHL and NFL. The fact that the Sabres finally have a billionaire owner who is willing to pay top dollar for a coach is to be celebrated, not scorned. Secondly, if you look at coaches salaries in the NHL compared to other leagues its' almost laughable. While NHL Player salaries are on the rise, coaching salaries are dormant. After reading the Buffalo News article this morning about the Sabres negotiating with Babcock, I really think he will take the Sabres job. Not only for himself and his family, but I also believe this is going to be a monumental step for coaching salaries across the NHL. As another poster stated, we are dealing with many owners who are worth billions themselves, if not close to it. No one is losing money in this thing called owning an NHL team. Babcock has the opportunity right now to raise the bar of coaching salaries significantly, and it wouldn't surprise me if other coaches around the league are urging him to take the Sabres job if the salary is north of the $5 million range for the benefit of the fraternity of coaches. That amount of money for your leader of your franchise is pennies compared to the money the team makes in TV contracts, marketing, season tickets, and Box revenues. For a job that important, the top guy in the league should be well paid. If that scenario happens to occur in Buffalo, are you REALLY FRICKIN UPSET ABOUT THAT???? Would you rather it happen in LA, NY, or Toronto? Eventually someone is going to pay a coach more than any other coach in the league, why not it be Buffalo. And if that irks an owner or 20 of them, so frickin what! All is fair in love and sports. For decades, the City of Buffalo has been victim of this. Now that we have the opportunity of being the maverick I have no issue with that.....at all! As for Pegula taking it out on the fans in the way of ticket prices, let me just say this. With the direction this team is heading, with the talent they are acquiring and action plan that Murray has in place, it is only a matter of time before we are competing for Cups. We have been in last place over the last two years and ticket sales are still healthy as ever. TV viewership for Sabres Games are top 6 in the league. AND THAT'S WITH A SUCKY TEAM! Imagine when we get good? It's not Babcock's salary that is going to eventually drive the price of Sabres tickets to all time highs. It's the play on the ice. Supply and demand people. Sabres tickets will soon be worth gold because of the product they put on the ice, not because of what we are paying our coach. So as a Sabres fan my only suggestion is have pride in what is going on and celebrate the fact that you have an owner that is finally making a balls out effort to put this franchise on the map and finally...after 5 frickin decades....win a frickin championship! When they do, I can assure you the last thing anyone on God's greens earth will be asking themselves is did we pay an NHL coach too much in order to win that championship. If you are the one person in the universe asking that question, start watching tennis. So let's stop all of this stupid "are we paying a coach too much" conversation (which is really killing the mood of what's going on) and hope and pray that we land this guy so we can move on to bigger and better things. Enjoy the moment. I know I am. These are my thoughts exactly. Except the crack on tennis. I like watching tennis. Women's tennis, specifically. And it's also because of the long volleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 It's all BS...Kraft and Goodell had a wink wink understanding if he accepts his penalties Brady will get his suspension reduced in half...watch it play out I'm sure it is but they are some seriously disturbing people reading their forum. Although me taking pleasure in it doesn't exactly make me sound of mind either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 No one is losing money in this thing called owning an NHL team. Sorry to cherry pick one sentence from a pretty good post, but IMO there is no way franchises like Florida and Arizona, and all their fans dressed as empty seats, are not losing money year after year. In MLB with a huge TV contract, I can believe that even the teams with the worst home attendance are still showing a profit. Not so for NHL owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 One of the most negative fan bases in the country. Can anyone blame us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 The simple answer is that in the league framework (CBA), coaches, management, support staff, etc. are not part of the league (or added into bottom line accounting) . This is simply what Terry said he would do. Improve everything around the game that he can. There are no restrictions on this. Build a Harbor Center, make nice locker rooms, triple support and scouting staff, hire the best coaches....none of these things are restricted by the league framework. Terry is just doing what he said he'd do. There is no conflict or contradiction. Enjoy. Terry has every right to give Lindy Ruff $30 million a year..... The ACTUAL bottom line is, if Babcock signs for the terms being reported, 1 of 3 things will happen: 1) The owners will attempt to collude on coachs' salary and outcast Pegula as a crazy man 2) The owners will have to pay more to coaches, thus taking the value of the franchise down without offsetting revenue increase 3) The owners will hit the fans in the wallet If you buy a house for $200,000 and the taxes are $2,000 a year, and the next day the taxes almost triple to $6,000.....try selling that house for $200,000. You can argue that Babcock adds value to the Sabres, but on a whole, he was already an nhl coach. If Detroit loses him, if he really is that value added, they get crushed, plus have to pay more for their next coach in theory and most likely reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 No, they remain moronic. So -- not willing to answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Terry has every right to give Lindy Ruff $30 million a year..... The ACTUAL bottom line is, if Babcock signs for the terms being reported, 1 of 3 things will happen: 1) The owners will attempt to collude on coachs' salary and outcast Pegula as a crazy man 2) The owners will have to pay more to coaches, thus taking the value of the franchise down without offsetting revenue increase 3) The owners will hit the fans in the wallet If you buy a house for $200,000 and the taxes are $2,000 a year, and the next day the taxes almost triple to $6,000.....try selling that house for $200,000. You can argue that Babcock adds value to the Sabres, but on a whole, he was already an nhl coach. If Detroit loses him, if he really is that value added, they get crushed, plus have to pay more for their next coach in theory and most likely reality. "Terry has every right to give Lindy Ruff $30 million a year..... " ........ :blink: huh? Lindy Ruff? They may call Terry crazy, but there is not necessarily any need for collusion. Owners have total control of coaching salaries as it is. Babcock is in a small class that can command this kind of money( N=2). Quinneville is the other. Coaching is not a very secure profession. Owners don't need to collude to scale this. I predict nobody will touch Babcock's salary for coaching for years to come (in either salary or scale or term, Quinevlle being the possible exception). Though average salaries for coaches by definition will rise, this is a minimal blip in the big picture of NHL costs. Heck, a guy like Pronger is making similar money not playing hockey. Wade Redden was warehoused in the AHL, as was Mike Richards for similar hits. This is nothing. Edited May 20, 2015 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Terry has every right to give Lindy Ruff $30 million a year..... The ACTUAL bottom line is, if Babcock signs for the terms being reported, 1 of 3 things will happen: 1) The owners will attempt to collude on coachs' salary and outcast Pegula as a crazy man 2) The owners will have to pay more to coaches, thus taking the value of the franchise down without offsetting revenue increase 3) The owners will hit the fans in the wallet If you buy a house for $200,000 and the taxes are $2,000 a year, and the next day the taxes almost triple to $6,000.....try selling that house for $200,000. You can argue that Babcock adds value to the Sabres, but on a whole, he was already an nhl coach. If Detroit loses him, if he really is that value added, they get crushed, plus have to pay more for their next coach in theory and most likely reality. None of this makes any sense in the context of pro sports. The value added comes from hiring a better coach and recouping some of that through playoff revenue, which is where many teams cash in because players aren't really being paid for those additional games. When coaching salaries increased in the NFL none of those things happened that you listed. The value of a team isn't linear to the revenue/profit it generates. The immediate short term Affect on coaching salaries will be minimal since very few coaches have a resume comparable to MB. It will increase the top tier coaches the next time they are up for a contract. Its quite PA-esque to take this situation and case it as bad for not only TP but for the rest of the league. The Leafs reported offered simialr if not more $$..... would the league try to cast MSLE as crazy? no they wouldn't bc that assessment has virtually no merit. "Terry has every right to give Lindy Ruff $30 million a year..... " ........ :blink: huh? Lindy Ruff? They may call Terry crazy, but there is not necessarily any need for collusion. Owners have total control of coaching salaries as it is. Babcock is in a small class that can command this kind of money( N=2). Quinneville is the other. Coaching is not a very secure profession. Owners don't need to collude to scale this. I predict nobody will touch Babcock's salary for coaching for years to come (in either salary or scale or term, Quinevlle being the possible exception). Though average salaries for coaches by definition will rise, this is a minimal blip in the big picture of NHL costs. Heck, a guy like Pronger is making similar money not playing hockey. Wade Redden was warehoused in the AHL, as was Mike Richards for similar hits. This is nothing. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 John Vogl @BuffNewsVogl 50s50 seconds ago Still waiting for final word, but seems like things are progressing well for Sabres with Mike Babcock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I know as soon as I go down for a coffee the news will break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I know as soon as I go down for a coffee the news will break. You know you can just buy coffee with cash right? You don't have to go down for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Can anyone blame us? At this point? Yes, I can. The tides have turned my friend, it's time to recognize! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 You know you can just buy coffee with cash right? You don't have to go down for it. You're doing it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 You know you can just buy coffee with cash right? You don't have to go down for it. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 You can always go down for a hamburger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) You know you can just buy coffee with cash right? You don't have to go down for it. Edited May 20, 2015 by SiZzlEmeIsTEr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 :w00t: You guys are bringing it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 LOL. Bob McKenzie Twitter... Vogl says things going well for Buffalo. Coaching colleague in NHL of Babcock's says he firmly believes Babcock stays in Detroit. All talk yesterday was only Detroit and Buffalo. Now hearing Toronto not totally out of it. :doh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.