Sabres fire Ted Nolan

[nfreeman]

But Murray had said long before the deadline he wasn't going to let any players go into free agency and get nothing in return. If the Sabres were 10 points  higher in the standings, he was going to keep Enroth and/or Neuvirth for the "stretch drive"? This take on the season is wonderfully revisionist: Murray didn't expect 30th and only was forced into tanking by Nolan's disappointing performance.

How is it that we ban a certain poster here for "libel" against a member of the Sabres front office, but this kind of comment, repeated often, doesn't apparently get any attention from the moderators?

 

Well, TM could've signed some of those players to extensions at the deadline if he thought at that point that the Sabres were good enough not to burn them to the ground -- so it's not necessarily revisionism.

 

Also, as I've stated previously, I am firmly in the camp that thinks TM expected last summer that this team would not finish DFL.

 

I think there's a huge difference between an isolated incident and repeated, and frequent, accusations.

 

Correct.  There's also a qualitative difference between the types of behavior that are the subjects of the 2 accusations.

 

Having said that:  I think it's still a fairly crappy move to throw that allegation around.  I just don't think it's suspension-worthy.  But I'm open to discussing it if anyone is so inclined.

What the hell's going on here?!?! I come back after watching the finale of Orange is the New Black and half the place is locked down, threads are missing................... it's bad enough we've all been at each others throats for the last 6 months, now mods are throwing this place into a blender and expecting a member to recognize it after just a couple of hours? Jesus Christ, why not just erase the whole damn thing and start from scratch?

 

OITNB is a really good show. 

 

I know you're upset about no more prison lesbian scenes for another 2 months, and especially about Enroth crashing and burning, but please don't lash out at us.

 

It will be OK.

[SwampD]

I didn't hear any blame. 

Not directly, but he can't say he didn't expect to be a 30th place team, as well as say he did this to improve the team, with implying something.

[WildCard]

I could have sworn last week most of the people on this board didn't expect the Sabres to finish 30th and now when Murray says it people want to slam him for lying? He didn't say they wouldn't suck. Last Thursday night people were calling for riots in Buffalo because the team was going to ruin the run to 30th.

 

Also, Ted Nolan coached this team last season. He chose to sign a 3 year deal knowing what this season would bring. He signed up for this entire situation. There's no arguing that. Everyone in the NHL and this entire board knew full well who was going to be moved from the roster before the end of the season. It's not a surprise at all that it happened.

 

What am I missing that warrants a defense of Ted Nolan and saying he was screwed by the GM? The GM offered him a contract, he signed it and the GM had an entire year to evaluate Nolan. Murray said he was partially to blame for the lack of communication. Murray didn't want Nolan but he wasn't going to get any coach to come in and fill that position so he took his best option. Nolan knew it too. How can anyone think otherwise? These guys know the business better than any of us. They know what is going on.

 

Next up.. draft lottery.

Good post and good point on the finishing 30th part

[PASabreFan]

It's a testament to the tank that even now fans can disagree on whether the team was tanking. I just can't believe that ownership and the front office believed there was any point in trying to finish 25th. Please... this was about McEichel.

[Eleven]

Not directly, but he can't say he didn't expect to be a 30th place team, as well as say he did this to improve the team, with implying something.

 

I'd say that's a fair characterization--that he implied that Nolan could have done better.

 

And I think he could have done better.  No way was this team making the playoffs (hindsight), but certainly it didn't have to be this bad.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Eleven

[dudacek]

 

Also, sounds like at least some of the players threw Teddy under the bus.

 

Hasn't been enough talk about this IMO.

 

Murray stressed that all players said Teddy was a good man, but some obviously raised flags with their statements. What were they?

 

Did Tim go in with some pointed questions about specific areas of concern?

Did the players grudgingly give honest answers or did they come in with an agenda?

Were the kids whining? Did Teddy quietly lose the support of the vets?

Did Murray hear what he wanted to hear?

 

Murray pretty clearly gives a lot of respect on Gionta. What did he have to say?

Edited April 13, 2015 by dudacek

[WildCard]

It's a testament to the tank that even now fans can disagree on whether the team was tanking. I just can't believe that ownership and the front office believed there was any point in trying to finish 25th. Please... this was about McEichel.

He's not necessarily saying that. As LTS wrote, there were plenty of tankers on SS who doubted we'd finish 30th

[Eleven]

Hasn't been enough talk about this IMO.

 

He stressed that all players said Teddy was a good man, but some obviously raised flags with their statements. What were they?

 

Did Tim go in with some pointed questions about specific areas of concern?

Did the players grudgingly give honest answers or did they come in with an agenda?

Were the kids whining? Did Teddy quietly lose the support of the vets?

Did Murray hear what he wanted to hear?

 

Murray pretty clearly gives a lot of respect on Gionta. What did he have to say?

 

 

It would be nice to know all of this, but I would imagine that if TM told us anything, he'd never get a player to talk with him candidly again.

[bunomatic]

It's a testament to the tank that even now fans can disagree on whether the team was tanking. I just can't believe that ownership and the front office believed there was any point in trying to finish 25th. Please... this was about McEichel.

I agree. There's no debate on finishing 30th the only thing left to debate is are the fans stupid enough to swallow GMTMs explanation ? 

[jad1]

Has Nolan ever had a healthy working relationship with a GM? The guy seems to lack situational awareness when it comes to meeting the expectations of his boss.

[Eleven]

It's a testament to the tank that even now fans can disagree on whether the team was tanking. I just can't believe that ownership and the front office believed there was any point in trying to finish 25th. Please... this was about McEichel.

 

Back when I had hope, wasn't the team something like 5 points out of the playoffs?  Before it went 0-for-January?

[PASabreFan]

I didn't want Nolan fired.  I have been very clear on that, but I am not surprised at all.  I believe this was the plan all along after the 3 year extension was signed.

 

I also do not buy that Murray did not go into this year with the intention of finishing last.  Sure he brought in some veterans to keep the ship afloat, somewhat, but with has beens and rookies everywhere, especially on defence and in net, not too mention AHL players, what did anyone really expect.

 

Nolan has had success in juniors (OHL and the Q ... several Memorial Cup appearances and one Championship) and in the NHL with rosters that had some talented players.  Not great talented teams, but some.

 

Ted did his best, but no one would have been successful, by design, with this roster.  I think he is a very good coach.  He paid the price, like a good soldier, and now he will get paid.

 

I won't say it's a dick move by Murray, as I believe it was all part of the master plan.

 

Onward.

It's a new era of cutthroat sports in Buffalo. Ryan, bullies, Incognito, Murray, Kane, give us your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse. We don't want to see the sausage being made, but we want the sausage (heyooooo). Hell, Nolan's hands might not even be clean here. Did he really enter into this situation an innocent babe? He's walking with how many millions for one season's work?

[Hoss]

No they weren't?

Completely misremembered. Yikes. Am I getting that old? Murray was hired after Nolan, though, so it makes the post I responded to even worse.

[nfreeman]

It's a new era of cutthroat sports in Buffalo. Ryan, bullies, Incognito, Murray, Kane, give us your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse. We don't want to see the sausage being made, but we want the sausage (heyooooo). Hell, Nolan's hands might not even be clean here. Did he really enter into this situation an innocent babe? He's walking with how many millions for one season's work?

 

Exactly.  When PLF left, TN had leverage, and he exercised it.  He knew he was in for a rebuild, headed by a guy who didn't hire him, and that there was a good likelihood that he'd get canned at some point.  So he accepted a deal that included a fat golden parachute. 

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, but at the same time we don't need to pretend that he's been victimized either.

[PASabreFan]

Back when I had hope, wasn't the team something like 5 points out of the playoffs?  Before it went 0-for-January?

So many was to look at it. How many coaches have ever survived a 14-game losing streak? If Murray thought they would be better, why not fire Nolan then? What did Murray do to shake up the roster or strengthen it when the playoff "push" started to slip away?

Has Nolan ever had a healthy working relationship with a GM? The guy seems to lack situational awareness when it comes to meeting the expectations of his boss.

People can say something similar about Murray now.

[Eleven]

Exactly.  When PLF left, TN had leverage, and he exercised it.  He knew he was in for a rebuild, headed by a guy who didn't hire him, and that there was a good likelihood that he'd get canned at some point.  So he accepted a deal that included a fat golden parachute. 

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, but at the same time we don't need to pretend that he's been victimized either.

 

Good points.

 

So many was to look at it. How many coaches have ever survived a 14-game losing streak? If Murray thought they would be better, why not fire Nolan then? What did Murray do to shake up the roster or strengthen it when the playoff "push" started to slip away?

 

Interesting stuff.  If he fired Nolan then, would anyone have willingly taken the job?  I think Trottier would have been stuck with it.

 

As for strengthening the roster, I don't see too many teams doing that in January.  I think the vast majority of "bubble" teams wait to see where they are in February and then decide whether to be buyers or sellers.  (Or, in Ottawa's case, do nothing, ever.)

[PASabreFan]

Good points.

 

 

Interesting stuff.  If he fired Nolan then, would anyone have willingly taken the job?  I think Trottier would have been stuck with it.

 

As for strengthening the roster, I don't see too many teams doing that in January.  I think the vast majority of "bubble" teams wait to see where they are in February and then decide whether to be buyers or sellers.  (Or, in Ottawa's case, do nothing, ever.)

We're overthinking this. Man, Murray's moves last offseason were brilliant mind-.

[dudacek]

Interesting listening to Sylvester trying to tear Nolan down as unable to get with his GM's program.

We're overthinking this. Man, Murray's moves last offseason were brilliant mind-######.

 

 

We are overthinking this.

Nolan didn't click with Murray or his program.

It's pretty simple.

[Eleven]

We're overthinking this. Man, Murray's moves last offseason were brilliant mind-######.

 

 

Not sure where you're headed with this.  He made some nice moves last off-season.  One didn't work out (Mez) and one was a stab in the dark that REALLY didn't work out (Benoit).  It's not too often that another team lands the captain of the Montreal Canadiens, you know?

[PASabreFan]

Interesting listening to Sylvester trying to tear Nolan down as unable to get with his GM's program.

 

 

We are overthinking this.

Nolan didn't click with Murray or his program.

It's pretty simple.

You're really overthinking this. Murray knew what Nolan was. He knew it wasn't going to work. Nolan was never going to prove himself and earn more years. Why else would Murray not communicate well with him? Murray described it as a failed marriage, then walked back the comment. It wasn't a failed marriage, it was a sham, arranged marriage. As others have said, let's take a shower and move onward.

[Samson's Flow]

Hasn't been enough talk about this IMO.

 

Murray stressed that all players said Teddy was a good man, but some obviously raised flags with their statements. What were they?

 

Did Tim go in with some pointed questions about specific areas of concern?

Did the players grudgingly give honest answers or did they come in with an agenda?

Were the kids whining? Did Teddy quietly lose the support of the vets?

Did Murray hear what he wanted to hear?

 

Murray pretty clearly gives a lot of respect on Gionta. What did he have to say?

I would think it would be something along the lines of the players mentioning that he was a great guy and a good motivator, but there was only so far that this approach would take them. When that's your only move, there isn't much faith the players can give when it comes time to strategize and 'outcoach' in the playoffs. I would guess that the players appreciated him holding everyone together and accountable, but don't think he's the guy to win a coaching battle in the playoffs.

[LTS]

It's a testament to the tank that even now fans can disagree on whether the team was tanking. I just can't believe that ownership and the front office believed there was any point in trying to finish 25th. Please... this was about McEichel.

 

Tanking... it's a nuanced term right?  I mean they weren't intentionally losing.  They made hockey moves that rebuilt for the future.  If tanking is stripping your team down to rebuild it properly by making moves that other teams make every season then yes.. they tanked.  But they didn't intentionally lose.  They didn't bench players (as far as we know) because they were over performing.

 

I mean.. the team was going to suck because there was no point in going out and trying get high-end talent to fill in the gaps until you had some talent drafted and developed for the roster and the next few years.  This team will have finished last two straight seasons.  Now we get to see if the team becomes Edmonton or if they become Colorado/NYI/Florida.

 

It's a new era of cutthroat sports in Buffalo. Ryan, bullies, Incognito, Murray, Kane, give us your tired, your poor, your wretched refuse. We don't want to see the sausage being made, but we want the sausage (heyooooo). Hell, Nolan's hands might not even be clean here. Did he really enter into this situation an innocent babe? He's walking with how many millions for one season's work?

 

You seriously love to paint everything so negative.  It's amazing.  I'm ignoring the football because it's irrelevant.  But Murray?  The guy was in line for a GM job and he got one.  He's cold and calculated and now that's a bad thing.  If he made decisions on emotion you'd slam him for that?  What do you want from someone?  Kane hasn't done ANYTHING wrong yet and you've posterized him as a problem.  It's kind of unbelievable.  Why bother hating so much all the time? It can't be good for your health.

 

Interesting listening to Sylvester trying to tear Nolan down as unable to get with his GM's program.

 

 

We are overthinking this.

Nolan didn't click with Murray or his program.

It's pretty simple.

 

Sylvester is an idiot.  There's no point in tearing down Nolan.  Hell, Murray would have the most insight on that and he's not doing it.  The situation is plainly obvious.  Murray needed a coach for a team that would suck.  He offered Nolan a 3 for 1 contract, get paid for 3, work only 1.  Nolan took the job because it can't hurt him in any way.  His alternative was the luxurious Latvian National Program. 

 

Nolan is not a bad guy as far as I know.  He's just not a great hockey coach for this situation.  End of story.  Move on.  There's no need to place blame all the time.  Sometimes... things just are. (not saying you are placing blame, I'm talking about Sylvester...)

[Doohickie]

I'll say one, this team has been interesting since Pegula bought them. Hardly a dull moment, even when they were playing dull.

 

It's because they're completely retooling the team.  The one constant is change.

I'm inclined to think GMTM has a VERY solid candidate all but locked up, or the firing wouldn't be this quick.  

 

But it may not be announced until a certain team is eliminated from the playoffs.

[inkman]

No, this team's brain trust are a cold, calculating bunch.

Its refreshing. Gone are the days of holding hands and singing kumbaya in the land of Pominville.

[Jsixspd]

Its refreshing. Gone are the days of holding hands and singing kumbaya in the land of Pominville.

I agree.  Cold and calculating often gets good results.   

Well, this puts the pressure on Murray now.  He will not be able to blame the new coach since it will be the one that he chose.  Seems like he has had something of a free pass to this point.

 

 

There was already a lot of pressure on GMTM;  this adds to it I suppose, a bit.

 

GMTM has EVERYTHING he wanted now;   team dismantled,  and even more of the roster sent packing over the summer -  he's got oodles of draft picks, and the Tank was 100% successful.   

 

Now, the expectation is to start winning and not look back, and build the wins up to playoff appearance in April 2017.    IF it doesn't turn around this fall,   GMTM will start taking a lot of heat.  This will be a 100% GMTM team moving forward - both players and coaching.