Trade speculation 2014-15

[shrader]

At this point I don't know why you'd want to stick any of Edmonton's players onto another bottom feeder team. Those guys are probably going to need to go to an already established team if they have any hope of growing as players. They need to play along with some kind of veteran presence.

[Hoss]

Taylor Hall is the only guy that really interests me anymore.

[dudacek]

Like Gionta? Or a coach like Trottier?

[nfreeman]

By saying you're in the minority here I think you're grossly overestimating the number of people who share your sentiment on this :nana:

 

Here's someone who does (kinda):

 

I wouldn't give them Risto or Nikita. I would hesitate to give them Ennis plus. I know that's what it would cost, but I wouldn't really be too interested at that price. Ennis has changed my mind on where I see him.

 

 

I like Ennis, but I think he's an interchangeable piece (there're dozens of players like him).

 

Risto and Zad go nowhere. Ever

 

Here's the thing about Ennis: he plays hard, and he doesn't quit. He's also got a ton of speed and a pretty good amount of skill (although probably not as much as Eberle). And he's homegrown and an integral part of the nascent Nolan rebirth. That's not an interchangeable piece. Stafford is an interchangeable piece.

 

As for Risto and Nikita: I want to keep them too, but a very-good-but-not-great forward is a more precious commodity than a very-good-but-not-great defenseman -- especially on this team. I suppose it depends on how good you think those 2 defensemen are going to turn out.

 

At this point I don't know why you'd want to stick any of Edmonton's players onto another bottom feeder team. Those guys are probably going to need to go to an already established team if they have any hope of growing as players. They need to play along with some kind of veteran presence.

 

Very good point, although you're neglecting to consider the horse whisperer's abilities.

[TrueBlueGED]

At this point I don't know why you'd want to stick any of Edmonton's players onto another bottom feeder team. Those guys are probably going to need to go to an already established team if they have any hope of growing as players. They need to play along with some kind of veteran presence.

 

Eberle isn't exactly a developmental project--his worst season is as good as Ennis' best.

[dudacek]

Taylor Hall is the only guy that really interests me anymore.

 

No, no, no. Sell high, buy low.

All of their big guys are flawed, but any would help the Sabres.

 

That said, if TM could somehow get them to buy into that theory for Hodgson, he would be my hero.

[TrueBlueGED]

Here's someone who does (kinda):

 

Here's the thing about Ennis: he plays hard, and he doesn't quit. He's also got a ton of speed and a pretty good amount of skill (although probably not as much as Eberle). And he's homegrown and an integral part of the nascent Nolan rebirth. That's not an interchangeable piece. Stafford is an interchangeable piece.

 

As for Risto and Nikita: I want to keep them too, but a very-good-but-not-great forward is a more precious commodity than a very-good-but-not-great defenseman -- especially on this team. I suppose it depends on how good you think those 2 defensemen are going to turn out.

 

Very good point, although you're neglecting to consider the horse whisperer's abilities.

 

It would appear I underestimated the support for Ennis and/or the disdain for all things Edmonton. I don't know how anyone can logically argue that Eberle isn't a straight-up upgrade over Ennis. Do you think Eberle became a 60+ point player by *not* trying hard?

[WildCard]

Here's the thing about Ennis: he plays hard, and he doesn't quit. He's also got a ton of speed and a pretty good amount of skill (although probably not as much as Eberle). And he's homegrown and an integral part of the nascent Nolan rebirth. That's not an interchangeable piece. Stafford is an interchangeable piece.

 

As for Risto and Nikita: I want to keep them too, but a very-good-but-not-great forward is a more precious commodity than a very-good-but-not-great defenseman -- especially on this team. I suppose it depends on how good you think those 2 defensemen are going to turn out.

Can't argue Ennis work ethic.

 

I fully expect Zadorov and Risto to be our Keith and Seabrooke: Norris caliber d-men year in and year out.

[Samson's Flow]

Eberle would instantly become our most talented forward and would lead this team in points. Obtaining him would instantly cement one of those mystery "top 6" spots in the sabres future cup winning roster. I'm still not convinced that Ennis is a lock to fill one of those spots. Eberle is smaller but he isn't Ennis small.

 

Eventually we have to do some 2 for 1 type trades using our prospect pool to get higher ceiling players. You cant play all 20 something of our prospects at once.

[nfreeman]

It would appear I underestimated the support for Ennis and/or the disdain for all things Edmonton. I don't know how anyone can logically argue that Eberle isn't a straight-up upgrade over Ennis. Do you think Eberle became a 60+ point player by *not* trying hard?

 

In 2010, if you were Phoenix's GM, would you have traded Shane Doan for Derek Roy?

[Samson's Flow]

Can't argue Ennis work ethic.

 

I fully expect Zadorov and Risto to be our Keith and Seabrooke: Norris caliber d-men year in and year out.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the old ducks teams with Pronger and Neidermeyer. But same difference.

[nfreeman]

Can't argue Ennis work ethic.

 

I fully expect Zadorov and Risto to be our Keith and Seabrooke: Norris caliber d-men year in and year out.

 

"Fully expect," eh? I like it. Not sure I'd bank on it to the point of turning down Eberle for one of them, but I still like it.

[dudacek]

My like for Eberle comes mostly from his clutch play for Canada internationally.

I think he's got a cocky attitude, but not in a way that hurts him on the ice.

I'd bet my money on he's just bruised by the Oiler experience.

He is a legitimate first-line winger.

 

(For what it's worth, he would probably rejuvenate Hodgson)

[nfreeman]

I'm thinking more along the lines of the old ducks teams with Pronger and Neidermeyer. But same difference.

 

OK, that's it. Hose 'em down, boys.

[Samson's Flow]

In 2010, if you were Phoenix's GM, would you have traded Shane Doan for Derek Roy?

? odd comparison.

 

Are you saying that in this case Ennis is Shane Doan?

[nfreeman]

? odd comparison.

 

Are you saying that in this case Ennis is Shane Doan?

 

Kinda -- what I'm really saying is that not all 60+ point guys are worth trading your best forward for, especially if your best forward plays with heart.

[Samson's Flow]

OK, that's it. Hose 'em down, boys.

Just in playing style/size wise. The Ducks defense had two large intimidating dmen back there who ate huge minutes. Obviously at 19 and 20 yrs old Risto/Zad is nowhere near that level but they could have the size/intimidation factor of the Pronger/Niedermeyer.

[TrueBlueGED]

In 2010, if you were Phoenix's GM, would you have traded Shane Doan for Derek Roy?

 

I don't know how this is even remotely applicable. Shan Doan was 34 at the time and a winger (also noted for his leadership and rugged play), and Roy was 27 and a center. Ennis is a 25 year old winger and Eberle is a 24 year old winger...both seen as similar offense-oriented players, and neither particularly noted for strong leadership qualities. Who is who, what is what? I legitimately do not understand the point you're trying to make.

[nfreeman]

Just in playing style/size wise. The Ducks defense had two large intimidating dmen back there who ate huge minutes. Obviously at 19 and 20 yrs old Risto/Zad is nowhere near that level but they could have the size/intimidation factor of the Pronger/Niedermeyer.

 

Niedermayer wasn't an intimidator -- more of a cross between Lidstrom and an F-15 -- although Pronger was the terminator.

[TrueBlueGED]

Kinda -- what I'm really saying is that not all 60+ point guys are worth trading your best forward for, especially if your best forward plays with heart.

 

The "playing with heart" only matters if you think the 60+ point player does not play with heart. Do you think Eberle doesn't play with heart? I could see your argument with somebody like Semin, but I've never heard or read anything about Eberle's effort level.

Edited December 4, 2014 by TrueBluePhD

[nfreeman]

I don't know how this is even remotely applicable. Shan Doan was 34 at the time and a winger (also noted for his leadership and rugged play), and Roy was 27 and a center. Ennis is a 25 year old winger and Eberle is a 24 year old winger...both seen as similar offense-oriented players, and neither particularly noted for strong leadership qualities. Who is who, what is what? I legitimately do not understand the point you're trying to make.

 

See my post above -- my point is simply that the conversation doesn't end with Eberle scoring more points on average than Ennis does. Ennis brings a lot to the table that Eberle may not.

 

Now, I haven't watched Eberle play enough to say whether or not he plays as hard as Ennis does -- it's quite possible that they are comparable in that respect. If so, then you are right and it would be an upgrade. But there are plenty of guys around the NHL who "put up numbers" on bad teams that I would not trade Ennis for.

[Samson's Flow]

Niedermayer wasn't an intimidator -- more of a cross between Lidstrom and an F-15 -- although Pronger was the terminator.

Agreed. Niedermayer was intimidating in that he could change the game offensively at any time and was so slick in the d-zone. He was 6-1 200lbs though which isn't small.

 

Ristolainen -> Niedermayer

Zadorov -> Pronger

 

Similar playing styles IMO.

[Hoss]

 

 

No, no, no. Sell high, buy low.

All of their big guys are flawed, but any would help the Sabres.

 

That said, if TM could somehow get them to buy into that theory for Hodgson, he would be my hero.

 

I would have interest in some of the other guys if they're selling low, but I don't think they will. If they were selling low they would've pulled the trigger by now.

[Samson's Flow]

See my post above -- my point is simply that the conversation doesn't end with Eberle scoring more points on average than Ennis does. Ennis brings a lot to the table that Eberle may not.

 

Now, I haven't watched Eberle play enough to say whether or not he plays as hard as Ennis does -- it's quite possible that they are comparable in that respect. If so, then you are right and it would be an upgrade. But there are plenty of guys around the NHL who "put up numbers" on bad teams that I would not trade Ennis for.

Eberle has the talent pedigree (nominated to Team Canada multiple times, high 1st round pick) that Ennis does not. I think for this reason posters here are considering Eberle to have a higher ceiling than Ennis, even at similar ages and career stages.

 

My point is more that eventually GMTM has to identify a way to convert our plethora of "second line level" talent into some "first line level" talent. We aren't going to draft a whole line of first liners and win this decade.

[Brawndo]

From McKenzie:

 

“Anaheim has wanted defense and I think will continue to want defense. I think they’d like to make some big moves between now and the deadline to bolster their deadline. Because I think they’re starting to sense, ‘Hey, you know what? This might be as good as we get right here in the next year or two. Let’s take advantage of it.’ So I think Bob Murray is probably going to go for it. And so I could see him trying to make some big moves, but some of this is just predicated on an incredible rash of injuries on the blueline.”

 

I mentioned this in an earlier thread, as for a trade with the Oilers, I would think bigger. I would put Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth and Ennis out there for EDM and see what the return would be.

Edited December 4, 2014 by BRAWNDO