JJFIVEOH Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Absolutely agree. I just think the idea that we shouldn't express our displeasure with the team before they prove they suck to be nonsense. There is 'voicing our displeasure' and then there is 'non-stop relentless bitching'. Especially when Darcy has done what most have wanted him to do over the last two years. It's the people that have both sides of the story covered and will run against whichever side Darcy doesn't take, out of spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Absolutely agree. I just think the idea that we shouldn't express our displeasure with the team before they prove they suck to be nonsense. I thought I was pretty clearly expressing what I thought. Nowhere did I suggest that is what others should think, or when they should think it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 There is 'voicing our displeasure' and then there is 'non-stop relentless bitching'. Especially when Darcy has done what most have wanted him to do over the last two years. It's the people that have both sides of the story covered and will run against whichever side Darcy doesn't take, out of spite. I'm not sure people are flip-flopping as much as it would seem. I think you just see the folks that aren't happy with the direction being more vocal. No matter which way the wind blows, someone will complain about it. Once in awhile someone will be generally happy with the direction, but will still bitch that Darcy hasn't gone far enough or find some other thing to bitch about (like jerseys or perceived slights to the fans). Those are the gifted complainers, read their posts in awe of their skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I thought I was pretty clearly expressing what I thought. Nowhere did I suggest that is what others should think, or when they should think it. Right. I was really responding to JJ's post, and wanted to give it some context for people who don't read everything in a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I'm not sure people are flip-flopping as much as it would seem. I think you just see the folks that aren't happy with the direction being more vocal. No matter which way the wind blows, someone will complain about it. Once in awhile someone will be generally happy with the direction, but will still bitch that Darcy hasn't gone far enough or find some other thing to bitch about (like jerseys or perceived slights to the fans). Those are the gifted complainers, read their posts in awe of their skill. Thanks for the laugh. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Hockey Heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 There is 'voicing our displeasure' and then there is 'non-stop relentless bitching'. Especially when Darcy has done what most have wanted him to do over the last two years. It's the people that have both sides of the story covered and will run against whichever side Darcy doesn't take, out of spite. What pisses me off is we continue to drag this nonsense along. If you are going to rebuild then do it. However, there is NOTHING that says it has to be 3-4 years. If Vanek and Miller are not in the plans then they should have been gone by now. The thought of discussing this from now until the trade deadline is nauseating. This, more than anything, is the kind of stuff that turns me off as a fan. WHY would an owner want this? Why would he accept it? It's a damn joke and anyone who wants to try to say otherwise is doing nothing but kidding themselves. Keep buying those tickets and shirts. Have at it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 What pisses me off is we continue to drag this nonsense along. If you are going to rebuild then do it. However, there is NOTHING that says it has to be 3-4 years. If Vanek and Miller are not in the plans then they should have been gone by now. The thought of discussing this from now until the trade deadline is nauseating. This, more than anything, is the kind of stuff that turns me off as a fan. WHY would an owner want this? Why would he accept it? It's a damn joke and anyone who wants to try to say otherwise is doing nothing but kidding themselves. Keep buying those tickets and shirts. Have at it!!!! Who says he hasn't been rebuilding all along? Darcy traded for a young center before last season, he drafted two centers last year and he traded three veterans for draft picks this past season. Seems to me like he's been in the process for the last two years. Why would an owner want what? First it was said that Darcy needed to get rid of the core, then it was said he needed to start over........ what more do you want at this point in time? It seems to me Miller is probably not going to fetch what Darcy thinks he can get. It seems to me the Vanek situation hasn't been settled, I think if he is dealt that Darcy is holding out for now, perhaps to see if he can turn this thing around sooner than later and convince Vanek to stay. There's two months with nothing going on, nothing needs to be done by tomorrow. Ya know what's going to happen, fans are going to bash Darcy for not bringing in a couple of seasoned vets to help make this team somewhat competitive while the young guys make the transition. Darcy will then bring in a couple of those seasoned vets and the Sabres will end up finishing 9th. Then everybody will cry because Darcy made the moves to bring in a couple of seasoned vets when he should have let the team tank this year in order to get a high draft pick. Damned if you , damned if you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Come on man. How can you accept this?? Yeah maybe I will buy the rebuilding thing with a new GM. So you are ok with all the trades that have been made and all the FA's that were signed that we did NOTHING. Look at the teams around us in the draft. Any of those teams laying down for the next few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Come on man. How can you accept this?? Yeah maybe I will buy the rebuilding thing with a new GM. So you are ok with all the trades that have been made and all the FA's that were signed that we did NOTHING. Look at the teams around us in the draft. Any of those teams laying down for the next few years? I have yet to see a UFA I wanted go to a team for a reasonable contract so No to that. Florida, TB, Washington, Nashville, Colorado, Edmonton, Carolina... which one of those teams at the draft or since has made a significant move? Please tell me. The only team around us that really made any significant moves was the Dallas Stars. Out of those teams I just mentioned, Colorado and Edmonton have a similar pool of talent to the sabres by which I mean young players with tons of potential but nothing proven yet. Neither of them made a big trade even though Colorado had the opportunity o make a huge trade this summer with #1 pick. I think Vanek and Miller should be moved or resigned. Pick one, unfortunately Darcy has until the trade deadline to make up his mind so here we sit. O and Edmonton, Florida and Colorado are "laying down for the next year" because they are building. They may beat us next year in the rankings but they are not contenders for much other than a low playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Come on man. How can you accept this?? Yeah maybe I will buy the rebuilding thing with a new GM. So you are ok with all the trades that have been made and all the FA's that were signed that we did NOTHING. Look at the teams around us in the draft. Any of those teams laying down for the next few years? The general consensus around the league and the media is that Darcy has had two of the most successful drafts of the last two years. The core was cancerous and needed to go, out goes Connolly, Roy, P-Ville and Gaustad. The Sabres needed size, grit and leadership, in comes Ott, Scott, eventually Girgensons and then some serious size from the draft. Darcy has also loaded up on defensemen which have been the highest commodity in the league over the last few years which leaves the possibility open to swing some more deals. These are the first two full years that Darcy has been able to work without a leash. These are just a few examples. With all that said, are people really hanging Vanek and Miller over his head? Or is it the Leino deal which is completely irrelevant at this point? It seems like some fans love to abuse that term 'suffer'. Does anybody seriously think that after the way Darcy has been chastised by the fans and media over the last year or so that he's going to give anybody hope going into next season? Hell, I wouldn't tell people that I plan to make this turnaround as short as possible. I'd give the worst case scenario and let everybody be pleasantly surprised when it turns out quicker than expected. To answer your question, yes I can deal with what he has done. I would like to see Darcy try to convince Vanek to stay and work on making this a short term turnaround, but at this point we don't know that he's not already doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 That's not presumptive at all. As a professional athlete you train your entire life for a 4-10 year window that you have a chance to compete for a championship. If you are a current Sabre and you have just listened to your management say prepare to suffer - how in the hell do you spend your summer training as hard as the guy who is coming to camp who thinks his team is competing for a cup or even a playoff spot? The only way the guys like Vanek, Miller, and other vets do it is with the hope that maybe they will soon be on a quality team. This whole prepare to suffer deal is a joke. If we as a fanbase can't accept it how do you expect players to accept it. Kevin Porter type players accept it because they finally get to play in the NHL. Quality players are going to laugh at the thought of playing in buffalo. You guys can spin it however you want about draft picks and prospects and all that happy face bs. I have never been more disgusted in this team. It is actually embarrassing. I won't spend $1 to support this team. As for the 8 cups in 15 years. Yeah right!!! You won't see 8 playoff trips in 15 years. Management has already told you forget the next 2 or 3. So now your down to 8 out of 12. This is a great line. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 The general consensus around the league and the media is that Darcy has had two of the most successful drafts of the last two years. The core was cancerous and needed to go, out goes Connolly, Roy, P-Ville and Gaustad. The Sabres needed size, grit and leadership, in comes Ott, Scott, eventually Girgensons and then some serious size from the draft. Darcy has also loaded up on defensemen which have been the highest commodity in the league over the last few years which leaves the possibility open to swing some more deals. These are the first two full years that Darcy has been able to work without a leash. These are just a few examples. With all that said, are people really hanging Vanek and Miller over his head? Or is it the Leino deal which is completely irrelevant at this point? It seems like some fans love to abuse that term 'suffer'. Does anybody seriously think that after the way Darcy has been chastised by the fans and media over the last year or so that he's going to give anybody hope going into next season? Hell, I wouldn't tell people that I plan to make this turnaround as short as possible. I'd give the worst case scenario and let everybody be pleasantly surprised when it turns out quicker than expected. To answer your question, yes I can deal with what he has done. I would like to see Darcy try to convince Vanek to stay and work on making this a short term turnaround, but at this point we don't know that he's not already doing that. In what way is the Leino deal irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 In what way is the Leino deal irrelevant? Because there are no cap issues right now. What is your viewpoint of the rest of my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Because there are no cap issues right now. What is your viewpoint of the rest of my post? So what you're saying is that Darcy is really lucky that we're terrible... Because if we were a good team that was near the cap then BOY would that be a bad contract. Right? I have yet to see a UFA I wanted go to a team for a reasonable contract so No to that. Florida, TB, Washington, Nashville, Colorado, Edmonton, Carolina... which one of those teams at the draft or since has made a significant move? Please tell me. The only team around us that really made any significant moves was the Dallas Stars. Out of those teams I just mentioned, Colorado and Edmonton have a similar pool of talent to the sabres by which I mean young players with tons of potential but nothing proven yet. Neither of them made a big trade even though Colorado had the opportunity o make a huge trade this summer with #1 pick. I think Vanek and Miller should be moved or resigned. Pick one, unfortunately Darcy has until the trade deadline to make up his mind so here we sit. O and Edmonton, Florida and Colorado are "laying down for the next year" because they are building. They may beat us next year in the rankings but they are not contenders for much other than a low playoff spot. Well I mean Florida, Tampa, Nashville and Colorado just made some big moves at the draft just by actually being bad enough to get top talent. So there's that. I agree with the "Vanek and Miller should either be moved or resigned." But really, there's no "or." They won't be worth the contract they get (at least not to a rebuilding franchise like the Sabres) and they don't want to be here anyways. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 So what you're saying is that Darcy is really lucky that we're terrible... Because if we were a good team that was near the cap then BOY would that be a bad contract. Right? No, he's not lucky. He has two buyouts to use. My post had nothing to do with Leino, I simply pointed him out as a possible bad move. I was addressing what good he has done over the last two years that most people simply ignore just so they can trash him all day long. Usually whenever I bring it up, it just gets ignored and we'll be right back to trashing him a couple days later. Well I mean Florida, Tampa, Nashville and Colorado just made some big moves at the draft just by actually being bad enough to get top talent. So there's that. I agree with the "Vanek and Miller should either be moved or resigned." But really, there's no "or." They won't be worth the contract they get (at least not to a rebuilding franchise like the Sabres) and they don't want to be here anyways. Time to move on. How can Vanek not be worth the contract for a rebuilding team? If a rebuild can be done quickly, signing somebody like Vanek to an 8 year deal during a rebuild couldn't be more perfect timing. You don't come across guys like Vanek every day, and if you can convince him to stay this would be the perfect chance to make him a lifelong Sabre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 There are teams that get things done and then there are the Buffalo Sabres. A 26 year old multiple 30 goal scorer with a bit of an edge to his game. That type of deal for that type of player is beyond Darcy Regier at this point. It's been 10 years since Regier has made a deal (Chris Drury) anywhere near that level. Ever since Briere and Drury decided to depart on the same day :sick: the Sabres haven't been able get dominant goal scorers. So Darcy plays it safe, close to the vest, plays the ultimate game of "Not to Lose" by loading up on defensemen. Why not just field 5 d-men on the ice at all times? We have more than enough of em. The problem is the teams with the "Not to Lose" label end up losing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Ever since Briere and Drury decided to depart on the same day :sick: the Sabres haven't been able get dominant goal scorers. So Darcy plays it safe, close to the vest, plays the ultimate game of "Not to Lose" by loading up on defensemen. Why not just field 5 d-men on the ice at all times? We have more than enough of em. The problem is the teams with the "Not to Lose" label end up losing anyway. If you read the article about the caps and Sabres in the new edition of hockey news it appears Darcy is playing to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 If you read the article about the caps and Sabres in the new edition of hockey news it appears Darcy is playing to lose. I'll look for it. But it sounds like the old "Prevent Defense" to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 bun's article: http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/52877-Sabres-Caps-must-stop-standing-pat.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 How can Vanek not be worth the contract for a rebuilding team? If a rebuild can be done quickly, signing somebody like Vanek to an 8 year deal during a rebuild couldn't be more perfect timing. You don't come across guys like Vanek every day, and if you can convince him to stay this would be the perfect chance to make him a lifelong Sabre. This franchise is due for a long rebuild. Quick fixes aren't the answer anymore. But, again, it doesn't matter. Vanek doesn't want to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 This franchise is due for a long rebuild. Quick fixes aren't the answer anymore. But, again, it doesn't matter. Vanek doesn't want to be here. The Sabres are the youngest team in the league, they have a new coach, most of the old core is gone and they loaded up on early round draft picks over the last two years. How are they supposed to make it longer? What would a longer rebuild consist of? And I don't recall Vanek specifically saying he wanted to leave, in fact he did state that a rebuild doesn't need to take long and he'd be willing to stick around for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 This franchise is due for a long rebuild. Quick fixes aren't the answer anymore. But, again, it doesn't matter. Vanek doesn't want to be here. Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true. Oh, so now we're back to thinking that Vanek wants to be here? After he stated himself he doesn't want to go through a rebuild, which is in fact occurring? Darcy, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I have yet to see a UFA I wanted go to a team for a reasonable contract so No to that. Florida, TB, Washington, Nashville, Colorado, Edmonton, Carolina... which one of those teams at the draft or since has made a significant move? Please tell me. The only team around us that really made any significant moves was the Dallas Stars. Out of those teams I just mentioned, Colorado and Edmonton have a similar pool of talent to the sabres by which I mean young players with tons of potential but nothing proven yet. Neither of them made a big trade even though Colorado had the opportunity o make a huge trade this summer with #1 pick. Nashville signed 5 new guys on Day 1 of free agency. Plus, of course, added Seth Jones in the draft. And they only finished at the bottom of the pack because almost every scoring forward on the roster was hurt last year. Edmonton picked up 7 new guys during free agency (6 free agents + 1 trade). Carolina made a significant move in trading for Sekera. :flirt: I think Washington and Buffalo were two of the only teams to make no "splashy" moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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