CallawaySabres Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I definitely would not have thought this about a month ago. Certain players have come around (Stafford with his new line and Roy fully healthy). Bottom line is, I think this team is in a good position for next year. Along with Roy and Stafford coming along, Ennis, Hodgson and Foligno have brought about a ton of flexibility with this team. My question now is - will Leino be able to play well enough down the road to not make this look like a Boyes type of contract. Do most teams have one these contracts and if not, could it be THE contract that holds them back from the next level? Personally, I am not too worried about it but that is because I think he is going to rebound next year. I suppose the main point of this is to say that I really think this group is in a good position to make the next move and that the changes that will be made to take them to the next level are not going to be as difficult as once thought 30 days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm with you, at a 4.5MM cap hit, the Leino contract will not be that bad if he can conistently play like he has been for the past month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Need to wait until there's a new CBA and Cap to see how good or bad Leino's contract is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 This thread could get interesting. This is about as subjective as a subject matter can get. The moratorium on mgt bashing will probably limit discussion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 This thread could get interesting. This is about as subjective as a subject matter can get. The moratorium on mgt bashing will probably limit discussion though. I agree and I also want to make it known that this does not mean I want to keep the same team for next year - it means when certain players need to be moved, it should not be tought to do so. That, combined with 2 firsts and 2 seconds, could make for a pretty fine situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Leino's contract is bad. He makes 4.5mil and he will probably never break 45-50pts... however I think considering when he signed and his ability to control the puck makes the contract less horrid than it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Leino is what happens when you sign guys on July 1, you overpay. Given the history of July 1 in Buffalo, it's just unfamiliar to us. Believe you me I hated Leino the first month of the season but now when I watch games I'm hoping he's the guy with the puck down low late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Leino is what happens when you sign guys on July 1, you overpay. Given the history of July 1 in Buffalo, it's just unfamiliar to us. Believe you me I hated Leino the first month of the season but now when I watch games I'm hoping he's the guy with the puck down low late. Yep. Examples on other teams would include Drury and Gomez. And I don't think Leino is going to rise to the level of either of those bad moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 We really NEED to get into the playoffs to see if we're getting what we paid for in Ville. His puck possession style and defensive skill are much more suited for the playoffs as can be shown by his playoff numbers. He's gonna draw penalties, and he's gonna keep the puck alive in the offensive end when the game slows down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I definitely would not have thought this about a month ago. Certain players have come around (Stafford with his new line and Roy fully healthy). Bottom line is, I think this team is in a good position for next year. Along with Roy and Stafford coming along, Ennis, Hodgson and Foligno have brought about a ton of flexibility with this team. My question now is - will Leino be able to play well enough down the road to not make this look like a Boyes type of contract. Do most teams have one these contracts and if not, could it be THE contract that holds them back from the next level? Personally, I am not too worried about it but that is because I think he is going to rebound next year. I suppose the main point of this is to say that I really think this group is in a good position to make the next move and that the changes that will be made to take them to the next level are not going to be as difficult as once thought 30 days ago. I fully expect this contract to not look like a Boyes-type contract. That stated, I expect it to look like a Hecht-type contract and people will likely be besides themselves over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 (1) Leino is what happens when you sign guys on July 1, you overpay. (2) Given the history of July 1 in Buffalo, it's just unfamiliar to us. (3) Believe you me I hated Leino the first month of the season but now when I watch games I'm hoping he's the guy with the puck down low late. powerhouse of a post -- 3 separate (in my view) and great insights (as #'d above). chz is rounding into playoff form. now, if only the team can get there. I expect it to look like a Hecht-type contract and people will likely be besides themselves over that. this is a possible outcome, but i think the guy can add more to the mix than hecht did. even so, remember hecht in 05-06? (specifically, what should have been the GWG against the 'canes?) if leino becomes as productive as that player over a slightly longer period of time? yes, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 powerhouse of a post -- 3 separate (in my view) and great insights (as #'d above). chz is rounding into playoff form. now, if only the team can get there. this is a possible outcome, but i think the guy can add more to the mix than hecht did. even so, remember hecht in 05-06? (specifically, what should have been the GWG against the 'canes?) if leino becomes as productive as that player over a slightly longer period of time? yes, please. That's basically where I was going with the comment. Hecht was for several seasons the best defensive forward on the team; could contribute offensively, though never as much as people thought someone getting paid what he was getting should contribute; and could play multiple positions, though he was forced to play out of position far more than he should have and when forced into full-time center duties had a dropoff in his play. The Sabres, when all is said and done, will have likely overpaid for his services. If people don't look at his contract, I expect they'll see a contributor in the LT. If all they see is his contract, they'll hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I will say this about Leino: When the going gets tough, he plays tougher. One of the problems with the Sabres in recent years has been their relative softness. Bang them around a little and they back off. Leino is quite the opposite; he doesn't seem to really get engaged in the game until he's pissed off, and then he's hard to challenge down low. He gets determined and doesn't give up on the play. Maybe that makes him a better player for the playoffs, when hackin' & whackin' is more the rule than the exception. I think that grit is worth some of the contract money we're spending on him. Something we really haven't had since Grier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Bad contract or not his decision making is the most head scratching on the team minus Vanek here an there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBuffalo Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 He is ok at controlling the puck, I feel like he is very good at getting the puck in front of the net. He slows the game down. The reason why I think that he has been making people more happy with him is he has been finishing checks as well as keeping the puck in the offensive zone. However, he needs to start burying the puck in the net. He has had some excellent chances that an Ahler can finish, which he finished almost every time in Philly. He is getting paid to much money not to produce. Overall I am not mad about the money we are giving him but rather optimistic. If he can keep controlling the game, and find a way to start putting the puck in the net he will be very valuable. He definately is not ever going to play center. But when i saw him yelling at the opposite team from the bench cause of a hit on stafford. It really proved to me that he has heart and does care about winning and taking this team to Lord Stanley's doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yep. Examples on other teams would include Drury and Gomez. And I don't think Leino is going to rise to the level of either of those bad moves. With what the rags were able to get for Gomez, I'm just about ready to call them geniuses for giving him that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 The contract is horrible, but you know, I like Leino. Hated him for a few months, but now that we've gotten a good look at him for almost a full season, I'm okay with him as a third line player. He's kind of an agitator -- I like it. He won't hit like Kaleta but he sure does piss people off out there. Against montreal a few games ago, he skated by PK and all of the sudden PK randomly went nuts and got into a little scuffle -- you have to wonder what Ville said to piss him off like that! For some reason I can't remember what team it was against right now... I want to say Boston.. but a few months ago they made Ville their prime target for the whole game. He's doing something right, even if maybe he isn't showing up on the scoresheet still. I know the thread is about his contract, which is bad, but I'm betting lots of teams have at least one contract like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 The contract is horrible, but you know, I like Leino. Hated him for a few months, but now that we've gotten a good look at him for almost a full season, I'm okay with him as a third line player. He's kind of an agitator -- I like it. He won't hit like Kaleta but he sure does piss people off out there. Against montreal a few games ago, he skated by PK and all of the sudden PK randomly went nuts and got into a little scuffle -- you have to wonder what Ville said to piss him off like that! For some reason I can't remember what team it was against right now... I want to say Boston.. but a few months ago they made Ville their prime target for the whole game. He's doing something right, even if maybe he isn't showing up on the scoresheet still. I know the thread is about his contract, which is bad, but I'm betting lots of teams have at least one contract like that. Yeah it was Boston, in the 6-0 Sabres win. He even gave Thomas a nice snow shower--- there's probably some bad blood leftover from the past two postseasons, which is all the more reason to love him going for it when he knew full well he'd get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 At 18-5-5, a lot of contracts look pretty good. With the possibility of a single one-time get-out-of-cap-jail free card looming with the new CBA, I think we're in even better shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think that Vanek's contract is the worst on the team. There is not even a close second in my mind. For the kind of coin he gets, he MUST stay healthy and he MUST score. He does not stay healthy and now this year he is not scoring. I'm looking at this very objectively. It matters not a whit that I like him as a player. He is not earning his contract this year. He also seems to get hurt in the playoffs when he is needed the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlemagne Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think that Vanek's contract is the worst on the team. There is not even a close second in my mind. For the kind of coin he gets, he MUST stay healthy and he MUST score. He does not stay healthy and now this year he is not scoring. I'm looking at this very objectively. It matters not a whit that I like him as a player. He is not earning his contract this year. He also seems to get hurt in the playoffs when he is needed the most. I wouldn't say it is the worst. Is he overpaid? yes but what he brings to the sabres is a unique talent that other teams always need to be aware of. Even in his current slump other teams concentrate their better defensive units against TV. He is one the few (if not the only) homerun hitters on the roster. He creates production for his teammates even when he isn't producing based solely on the respect other teams give him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think that Vanek's contract is the worst on the team. There is not even a close second in my mind. For the kind of coin he gets, he MUST stay healthy and he MUST score. He does not stay healthy and now this year he is not scoring. I'm looking at this very objectively. It matters not a whit that I like him as a player. He is not earning his contract this year. He also seems to get hurt in the playoffs when he is needed the most. He seems to get hurt in the playoffs? You mean he gets his leg chopped out and then gets stepped on with a skate blade? Cut his injury prone ass! And in terms of an amnesty clause, I don't see them using that for any contract currently on the team. Now, taking on another team's bad contract in a favorable trade? That's where it could get interesting for the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 He seems to get hurt in the playoffs? You mean he gets his leg chopped out and then gets stepped on with a skate blade? Cut his injury prone ass! And in terms of an amnesty clause, I don't see them using that for any contract currently on the team. Now, taking on another team's bad contract in a favorable trade? That's where it could get interesting for the Sabres. And those were the only playoff games he lost to injury in his career, I believe. Yes, please. What financially strained franchise would like to give up a top line player and a bad contract they cant afford for a pile of used jock straps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 And those were the only playoff games he lost to injury in his career, I believe. 5 goals in 7 games last year. Whatever the problem was, it wasn't him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think that Vanek's contract is the worst on the team. There is not even a close second in my mind. For the kind of coin he gets, he MUST stay healthy and he MUST score. He does not stay healthy and now this year he is not scoring. I'm looking at this very objectively. It matters not a whit that I like him as a player. He is not earning his contract this year. He also seems to get hurt in the playoffs when he is needed the most. I agree, he is a really good player and a guy I would want on the team, but his play doesn't match the salary he is given. How many times has he been the teams BEST player for a long stretch of time? He just never seems like the kind of player who will take charge and lead (not a knock on him, he may just be the kind of guy who goes out an plays his game and not someone who takes charge of others), and his performance usual comes in spirts of being Hot and Cold. The contracts not his fault though, who would have turned down what Edmonton was offering? He's just not a top tier player, he is best when he can play quietly behind a couple other players (like when Briere and Drury where here) instead of playing as the focal point. Leinos contract is bad too, and I would include Ehrhoffs too, they are both good players, but not at what they currently get paid this year. But thats what happens when you sign Day 1 FA's and your not the most attractive destinations available, you overpay for them to come play for you. The worst contract has to be one they didn't sign, but instead took over, and thats Boyes. He is overpaid at anything over the veteran minimum..... He seems to get hurt in the playoffs? You mean he gets his leg chopped out and then gets stepped on with a skate blade? Cut his injury prone ass! And in terms of an amnesty clause, I don't see them using that for any contract currently on the team. Now, taking on another team's bad contract in a favorable trade? That's where it could get interesting for the Sabres. how many wish they could use it on Staffords deal? Theres another one who is overpaid for his production But whats the deal with this clause? Is it something you can only use once? If not, why wouldn't a team use the clause themselves on a player rather then making atrade to send the player somewhere else so they can use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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