Drunkard Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Ever notice that according to the media white folks are the only ones who are racist. I definitely don't believe that white people are the only ones who are racist, but for the most part they are the ones who tend to have the money, power, authority, or whatever to discriminate based on any sort of racist feelings. So while there may be some old curmudgeonly black guy spouting off about honkeys, crackers, or other races he's typically not the guy running the police department and telling cops to focus on young black males and he's not the guy evicting people from neighborhoods or not allowing "certain types" to move into a particular apartment building or neighborhood, or running a large department store and informing the security team of who to focus on when it comes to potential shoplifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 This is a tough one. But here goes. How long are we going to ring bells to commemorate the moment terrorists flew our planes into buildings, and earth? I can't even imagine being a family member who wants to, or feels he or she has to, participate in these events, the reading of the names next to Ground Zero, and so on. I'd want to remember privately, in a special place where happy moments were had. Why would you want to be where it all went down? If your son dies in a car crash, do you go out to that spot along the road every year to mark the time he died? I feel like these poor family members are being somehow co-opted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 This is a tough one. But here goes. How long are we going to ring bells to commemorate the moment terrorists flew our planes into buildings, and earth? I can't even imagine being a family member who wants to, or feels he or she has to, participate in these events, the reading of the names next to Ground Zero, and so on. I'd want to remember privately, in a special place where happy moments were had. Why would you want to be where it all went down? If your son dies in a car crash, do you go out to that spot along the road every year to mark the time he died? I feel like these poor family members are being somehow co-opted. I agree to a certain extent. Right now thou I look at it like the nazi concentration camps that get tourists. It serves as a reminder of what was endured and what transpired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 This is a tough one. But here goes. How long are we going to ring bells to commemorate the moment terrorists flew our planes into buildings, and earth? I can't even imagine being a family member who wants to, or feels he or she has to, participate in these events, the reading of the names next to Ground Zero, and so on. I'd want to remember privately, in a special place where happy moments were had. Why would you want to be where it all went down? If your son dies in a car crash, do you go out to that spot along the road every year to mark the time he died? I feel like these poor family members are being somehow co-opted. I'm with you. Along those lines, almost 15 years ago my wife lost our 2nd child right just before the 3rd trimester. It was a very emotional experience for my wife especially. For years afterward the hospital would send her a condolences card on the anniversary. And every fracking time one of those cards showed up the grieving process started again. :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I'm with you. Along those lines, almost 15 years ago my wife lost our 2nd child right just before the 3rd trimester. It was a very emotional experience for my wife especially. For years afterward the hospital would send her a condolences card on the anniversary. And every fracking time one of those cards showed up the grieving process started again. :wallbash: 911 was such a public thing though. There is no way to take it out of the public awareness. There are always going to be people who want this kind of acknowledgement, including some who lost someone that day. If these showings of respect were such a bad thing, memorial day parades would have been shut down a long time ago. There are a few who have ratings driven motives here, but the vast majority mean it as a show of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 911 was such a public thing though. There is no way to take it out of the public awareness. There are always going to be people who want this kind of acknowledgement, including some who lost someone that day. If these showings of respect were such a bad thing, memorial day parades would have been shut down a long time ago. There are a few who have ratings driven motives here, but the vast majority mean it as a show of respect. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 This is a tough one. But here goes. How long are we going to ring bells to commemorate the moment terrorists flew our planes into buildings, and earth? I can't even imagine being a family member who wants to, or feels he or she has to, participate in these events, the reading of the names next to Ground Zero, and so on. I'd want to remember privately, in a special place where happy moments were had. Why would you want to be where it all went down? If your son dies in a car crash, do you go out to that spot along the road every year to mark the time he died? I feel like these poor family members are being somehow co-opted. 911 was such a public thing though. There is no way to take it out of the public awareness. There are always going to be people who want this kind of acknowledgement, including some who lost someone that day. If these showings of respect were such a bad thing, memorial day parades would have been shut down a long time ago. There are a few who have ratings driven motives here, but the vast majority mean it as a show of respect. I hope that we eventually treat it like we treat Pearl Harbor day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I hope that we eventually treat it like we treat Pearl Harbor day. Does anyone know how we treated that back in 1954? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Does anyone know how we treated that back in 1954? Maybe PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I hope that we eventually treat it like we treat Pearl Harbor day. It will be hard. Pearl Harbor Day would have meant something absolutely different in 1954 if we were still fighting WWII. It's 2014, and we're still fighting. It looks like we'll still be fighting in 2024. We are commemorating the day the world devolved into permanent war. Even without making a judgement on the necessity or efficacy of such a war, it feels a lot like commemorating the diagnosis of an incurable, terminal illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 That whole July 4th thing. We're a country, get over yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 It will be hard. Pearl Harbor Day would have meant something absolutely different in 1954 if we were still fighting WWII. It's 2014, and we're still fighting. It looks like we'll still be fighting in 2024. We are commemorating the day the world devolved into permanent war. Even without making a judgement on the necessity or efficacy of such a war, it feels a lot like commemorating the diagnosis of an incurable, terminal illness. The bolded pretty well gets to my thoughts. It never feels like we are memorializing anything. it feels more like re-opening a wound. I do my best to avoid watching all the programming. None of it puts me in a good place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 The bolded pretty well gets to my thoughts. It never feels like we are memorializing anything. it feels more like re-opening a wound. I do my best to avoid watching all the programming. None of it puts me in a good place. I can agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 The bolded pretty well gets to my thoughts. It never feels like we are memorializing anything. it feels more like re-opening a wound. I do my best to avoid watching all the programming. None of it puts me in a good place. When you get right down to it though, does remembering any death ever put you in a good place? If it's only ok when the end result was good well then we better tear down that Vietnam War memorial and ignore all of the more recent deaths mentioned on Memorial Day. If you were to go to the family of some 911 victims and tell them that we aren't memorializing anything, I bet you'd get one hell of a negative response from a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 When you get right down to it though, does remembering any death ever put you in a good place? If it's only ok when the end result was good well then we better tear down that Vietnam War memorial and ignore all of the more recent deaths mentioned on Memorial Day. If you were to go to the family of some 911 victims and tell them that we aren't memorializing anything, I bet you'd get one hell of a negative response from a lot of them. Its my personal feeling on it. I'm not trying to suggest we all shouldn't be doing this. I just practice avoidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Its my personal feeling on it. I'm not trying to suggest we all shouldn't be doing this. I just practice avoidance. I get that. I'm not trying to pick a fight on this one. It's an interesting conversation but I worry about it heading down an ugly path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Everyone grieves differently. The person I lost perished when the second plane hit. Every time I see a video of that second plane smashing into the tower, I know that's when she died. I still wince. I found out how/that she died in detail on my birthday, 3 days later. Her daughter, who I was friends with, is immortalized in a photo where George W is hugging her at ground zero a year later. She was interviewed on CNN years later as the girl in the photo. She's attached to it every year in a rather public way and seems to find solace in annual ceremony. I totally understand the avoidance theory, too. And that one is harder to live by when every screen and headline is the same uber sensitive drivel about that day. I just click on by, and know that it may help someone cope somewhere. Out of a horrible thing came some beautiful moments of humanity, and those are the things I like to see remembered. The last time I went to ground zero, it was still a massive hole. Buildings were still missing windows/facades. I had a good long peaceful moment to myself. It helped. I've avoided it since. But it helps me to talk about it every year to someone who'll listen. I don't mind everyone pausing annually to remember something that really changed most of our lives. It'll fade as we age, as more and more people take the media reins who weren't there/were too young/not yet alive to see it. People are fickle. They mourn today in respect for the NYPD and tomorrow they'll be cussing them out again. But I guess it's worth a few hours of appreciation. Sorry this post got long. Thanks for reading if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 People in the south almost never get left to allow people to merge. It is the dumbest thing I witness down here on a daily basis. That's odd, further north (MD/VA/NC) they just hang out in the left lane in case there's a merge coming up. It does seem like the style is to only change lanes when required, never pre-emptively. If you end up in the left lane, you're going to stay there until your exit comes up. If you pass someone on the right, you end up staying on the right until you come upon someone slower. Unless you get into the mountains of western NC (although it might just be on a bike). Whenever I ride down there, they are the very courteous about getting the hell out of your way. If you come up on someone on a twisty road, they'll almost always pull over or slow down a ton so you can get around them. I don't know if they're just nice or there are PSAs on local TV (moto-tourist money is a big for them), but it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 It's a tough balance. I think it's important to remember the tragedy, the lives lost, the humanity, the heroes, the country coming together to help each other. I also think it's important to remember that we used to have a 4th amendment, we should remember that. We used to be a country that didn't torture, we should remember that, too. We used to view war as a last resort, something to start only rarely and stop as soon as possible. We used to have police who were focused on law and order, not espionage and armaments. All of these things are gone now, and they were killed on the same day as we lost those ~3,000 people. It's hard to bring that up, and I understand that they don't elicit the emotional response that the videos and memorials and names do, but to the rest of us, to the 300,000,000 Americans still here, they are just as, or more, important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 my 22 year old step-daughter thought it was a good idea to pack up everything she had and "move" to Jacksonville, FL on Saturday night 11:15. She did this with only about $500, no credit card, no job, no place to sleep, no family/friends in the area, an no plan about anything. She's been sleeping in her car and is pretty much out of money right now. she's near the beach area outside of Jax. She is sleeping in her car, but the battery is dying every day because I'm sure she used it without starting her car to charge her phone among other things. She has a prepaid phone so that will shut off in a few weeks, her car payment is due and so is her car insurance so I have no clue what will happen when those don't get paid for a while. She has all that stuff in her name and we aren't responsible for any of it but that's the least of our worries. My wife already has depression issues (is bipolar too) and this is just sending her down a deep worrying, anxiety driven nightmare that she didn't need and is having a hard time keeping it together. Our daughter has a lot of issues, all stemming from her real dad... (let's just say he went to prison for doing really bad things to her that dad's shouldn't do) and she stopped getting help for all these issues when she turned 18 because we couldn't make her anymore and only would get help or take meds on and off here and there for the past 4 years. But this is super scary with her now choosing to be homeless in Jax because she thinks it'll be easy to find a job there. so anyway... that's my complaint for the day. Send a prayer my family's way if you don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Sorry to hear about your daughter. Being a somewhat new dad it is unreal how much each small action they make affects you. I can't even imagine. Sounds like your wife is taking this hard (which is expected). You have to be strong man. Sorry to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 my 22 year old step-daughter thought it was a good idea to pack up everything she had and "move" to Jacksonville, FL on Saturday night 11:15. She did this with only about $500, no credit card, no job, no place to sleep, no family/friends in the area, an no plan about anything. She's been sleeping in her car and is pretty much out of money right now. she's near the beach area outside of Jax. She is sleeping in her car, but the battery is dying every day because I'm sure she used it without starting her car to charge her phone among other things. She has a prepaid phone so that will shut off in a few weeks, her car payment is due and so is her car insurance so I have no clue what will happen when those don't get paid for a while. She has all that stuff in her name and we aren't responsible for any of it but that's the least of our worries. My wife already has depression issues (is bipolar too) and this is just sending her down a deep worrying, anxiety driven nightmare that she didn't need and is having a hard time keeping it together. Our daughter has a lot of issues, all stemming from her real dad... (let's just say he went to prison for doing really bad things to her that dad's shouldn't do) and she stopped getting help for all these issues when she turned 18 because we couldn't make her anymore and only would get help or take meds on and off here and there for the past 4 years. But this is super scary with her now choosing to be homeless in Jax because she thinks it'll be easy to find a job there. so anyway... that's my complaint for the day. Send a prayer my family's way if you don't mind. best wishes and prayers your way. I hope she comes around especially for your wife's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 my 22 year old step-daughter thought it was a good idea to pack up everything she had and "move" to Jacksonville, FL on Saturday night 11:15. She did this with only about $500, no credit card, no job, no place to sleep, no family/friends in the area, an no plan about anything. She's been sleeping in her car and is pretty much out of money right now. she's near the beach area outside of Jax. She is sleeping in her car, but the battery is dying every day because I'm sure she used it without starting her car to charge her phone among other things. She has a prepaid phone so that will shut off in a few weeks, her car payment is due and so is her car insurance so I have no clue what will happen when those don't get paid for a while. She has all that stuff in her name and we aren't responsible for any of it but that's the least of our worries. My wife already has depression issues (is bipolar too) and this is just sending her down a deep worrying, anxiety driven nightmare that she didn't need and is having a hard time keeping it together. Our daughter has a lot of issues, all stemming from her real dad... (let's just say he went to prison for doing really bad things to her that dad's shouldn't do) and she stopped getting help for all these issues when she turned 18 because we couldn't make her anymore and only would get help or take meds on and off here and there for the past 4 years. But this is super scary with her now choosing to be homeless in Jax because she thinks it'll be easy to find a job there. so anyway... that's my complaint for the day. Send a prayer my family's way if you don't mind. done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Best of luck to you, TM8. Hopefully she find her way soon. The one good thing (if you can call it that), is that she is still very young. She has a lot of time to work towards fixing these issues and hopefully nothing happens during a dark period like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 my 22 year old step-daughter thought it was a good idea to pack up everything she had and "move" to Jacksonville, FL on Saturday night 11:15. She did this with only about $500, no credit card, no job, no place to sleep, no family/friends in the area, an no plan about anything. She's been sleeping in her car and is pretty much out of money right now. she's near the beach area outside of Jax. She is sleeping in her car, but the battery is dying every day because I'm sure she used it without starting her car to charge her phone among other things. She has a prepaid phone so that will shut off in a few weeks, her car payment is due and so is her car insurance so I have no clue what will happen when those don't get paid for a while. She has all that stuff in her name and we aren't responsible for any of it but that's the least of our worries. My wife already has depression issues (is bipolar too) and this is just sending her down a deep worrying, anxiety driven nightmare that she didn't need and is having a hard time keeping it together. Our daughter has a lot of issues, all stemming from her real dad... (let's just say he went to prison for doing really bad things to her that dad's shouldn't do) and she stopped getting help for all these issues when she turned 18 because we couldn't make her anymore and only would get help or take meds on and off here and there for the past 4 years. But this is super scary with her now choosing to be homeless in Jax because she thinks it'll be easy to find a job there. so anyway... that's my complaint for the day. Send a prayer my family's way if you don't mind. Sending prayers your family's way, man. I hope things fall into place for your stepdaughter soon so you and your wife can stop worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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