Connor Timmins filed for arbitration; Bo Byram did not

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Perplexed. 

Not really. Bo’s agent isn’t dumb, arbitration may leave money on the table. I think both the Sabres and Bo’s camp are silent on all of this as Adams works through the negotiating process. Which is what terrifies me as a Sabres fan, not so much in the return quality, because I’ve lost faith in Adam’s ability to get that in a deal, but in the return “fit”. In other words, is what Kyven brings in the fit the Sabres need. It down right scares the ***** out of me with this guy at the helm.

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Not really. Bo’s agent isn’t dumb, arbitration may leave money on the table. I think both the Sabres and Bo’s camp are silent on all of this as Adams works through the negotiating process. Which is what terrifies me as a Sabres fan, not so much in the return quality, because I’ve lost faith in Adam’s ability to get that in a deal, but in the return “fit”. In other words, is what Kyven brings in the fit the Sabres need. It down right scares the ***** out of me with this guy at the helm.

Bo is going to act in his best interest and KA is going to act in the Sabres's best interest. It's likely that both sides in general know what the outcome is eventually going to be. To put it mildly, I'm not impressed with KA's overall work. But on the BB issue I believe that he is handling it properly. He's not going to be forced to make a panic move that will not get him the return that he hopes to get. And that is the right stance to take. 

Edited 12 hours ago by JohnC

[dudacek]

I don’t see this as the “gotcha Adams!” some people seem to.

Are people surprised Timmins filed for arbitration?

Do people think Adams is caught off guard Timmins filed for arbitration?

They walked away from JBD because they did not want to pay him what they think he might get in arbitration. They acquired Timmins because they’re probably willing to pay what he might get in arbitration in the context of dumping Clifton’s salary.

Timmins didn’t file for arbitration because he doesn’t want to be in Buffalo, he filed for arbitration because it increases his leverage negotiating how much he gets paid in Buffalo.

It’s about player evaluation and the business of hockey. The choices may end up working out the way they foresee, or they may not.

But there’s no surprises here.

Edited 12 hours ago by dudacek

[JoeSchmoe]

If Byram really, really wants out, he's going to sign a cap friendly short-term deal which will make him as tradeable as possible.

Even if he doesn't get traded right away, he's going to be locked at the hip to Dahlin, who actually makes him look like a viable 1st pairing D (thereby increasing his marketability and future contract value).

He definitely doesn't want to sign a lowball offer sheet as Sabres would be likely to match, and they're not allowed to trade him for a full year afterwards. 

[dudacek]

Byram’s decision means he still sees a path to a trade and/or a more favourable contract this summer that arbitration may have closed.

What I’m not clear about is whether or not he can still sign an offer sheet if the Sabres elect arbitration.

If he can’t, then I’d think the Sabres would want to go that route, meaning they’ve got him locked up next year while still being able to trade him if they wish.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by dudacek

[Flashsabre]

Trade Byram for a good forward, sign Grezlyck to pair with Dahlin. Prosper

[French Collection]

I don’t know the exact number but it’s a very small number of cases that end up in arbitration, like 5%. They usually settle out of court.

[MDFan]

2 hours ago, krakensabr56390 said:

Y’all know this means really nothing - it’s a very common negotiating ploy used by many players and almost never gets to the arbitration hearing stage. Many Sabres have done this over the last few years and none have gone to the heating 

Stop with the common sense! You must overreact as if the very survival of the franchise depends upon the outcome of an arbitration hearing for a 5/6 defenseman.  

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Well, KA can decide not to accept the arbitration decision, decline to pay Timmons, and then bring back JBD. 4D chess.

JBD signed with Detroit for $875K. 
 

 

[Rasmus_]

I'm not a Timmins fan, so more ammunition.  Hopefully he's closer to his Pittsburgh form. 

[kas23]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Well, KA can decide not to accept the arbitration decision, decline to pay Timmons, and then bring back JBD. 4D chess.

True 4D chess would be to trade Timmons and a 2027 2nd rounder to get JBD back. 

3 hours ago, krakensabr56390 said:

Y’all know this means really nothing - it’s a very common negotiating ploy used by many players and almost never gets to the arbitration hearing stage. Many Sabres have done this over the last few years and none have gone to the heating 

Except for JBD. Apparently he went to the hearing stage and was awarded an obscene amount of money. 
 

Seriously though, this was Adams reason for dumping JBD, yet he traded for a different defenseman who is doing exactly what Kevyn feared JBD would do. 

Edited 11 hours ago by kas23

[Big Guava]

3 hours ago, krakensabr56390 said:

Y’all know this means really nothing - it’s a very common negotiating ploy used by many players and almost never gets to the arbitration hearing stage. Many Sabres have done this over the last few years and none have gone to the heating 

Tim Kennedy did

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, krakensabr56390 said:

Y’all know this means really nothing - it’s a very common negotiating ploy used by many players and almost never gets to the arbitration hearing stage. Many Sabres have done this over the last few years and none have gone to the heating 

Yes, of course.  But in light of the recent events it’s still funny.  
 

It’s healthy to laugh. 

[tom webster]

22 minutes ago, kas23 said:

True 4D chess would be to trade Timmons and a 2027 2nd rounder to get JBD back. 

Except for JBD. Apparently he went to the hearing stage and was awarded an obscene amount of money. 
 

Seriously though, this was Adams reason for dumping JBD, yet he traded for a different defenseman who is doing exactly what Kevyn feared JBD would do. 

As Dudacek correctly pointed out, these are not the same. He did not want his 7/8 defenseman getting a crazy award due to some good analytics. He has no issue with his 4/5 going the same route because he’s willing to pay that even though it will likely be settled before the hearing.

[LGR4GM]

So just so we're clear Adams didn't sign JBD because Arbitration but traded a 2nd to get Timmins who filed for Arbitration. 

And I'm suppose to believe the difference between Jbd and Timmins is so large, this is some strategy?

[Thorny]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So just so we're clear Adams didn't sign JBD because Arbitration but traded a 2nd to get Timmins who filed for Arbitration. 

And I'm suppose to believe the difference between Jbd and Timmins is so large, this is some strategy?

Need to keep up, Timmins is a top 4 D. Adams knows what he’s doing. Laughing at all of the little stuff when he has OH SO MANY colossal f*ck ups is just mean spirited 

We should be punching up - there is no way one can punch any lower than Kevyn Adams 

Frankly it reflects poorly on the fans, to continuously poke fun at someone probably not even capable of understanding what exactly his job description even is. True he would have difficulty piecing together the criticisms should he ever stumble across this website…but I mean someone might explain it to him 

Edited 10 hours ago by Thorny

[tom webster]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So just so we're clear Adams didn't sign JBD because Arbitration but traded a 2nd to get Timmins who filed for Arbitration. 

And I'm suppose to believe the difference between Jbd and Timmins is so large, this is some strategy?

You know they are not the same. First, they will settle with Timmins and be happy. I don’t necessarily agree with the decision to not qualify JBD but I understand the logic especially when they were able to sign a guy to a two way contract that is actually the real JBD comparable.

[JoeSchmoe]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So just so we're clear Adams didn't sign JBD because Arbitration but traded a 2nd to get Timmins who filed for Arbitration. 

And I'm suppose to believe the difference between Jbd and Timmins is so large, this is some strategy?

Maybe JBD didn't wanna be here.

[triumph_communes]

58 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So just so we're clear Adams didn't sign JBD because Arbitration but traded a 2nd to get Timmins who filed for Arbitration. 

And I'm suppose to believe the difference between Jbd and Timmins is so large, this is some strategy?

They see Timmins as a potential partner for Dahlin and JBD an 8 at best. So uhh, false equivalence 

[kas23]

44 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

They see Timmins as a potential partner for Dahlin and JBD an 8 at best. So uhh, false equivalence 

If that’s what they believe, then that’s one thing. But, Timmons as a top 4? Really?

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Trade Byram for a good forward, sign Grezlyck to pair with Dahlin. Prosper

This isn't the worst idea I've heard.  

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don’t see this as the “gotcha Adams!” some people seem to.

Are people surprised Timmins filed for arbitration?

Do people think Adams is caught off guard Timmins filed for arbitration?

They walked away from JBD because they did not want to pay him what they think he might get in arbitration. They acquired Timmins because they’re probably willing to pay what he might get in arbitration in the context of dumping Clifton’s salary.

Timmins didn’t file for arbitration because he doesn’t want to be in Buffalo, he filed for arbitration because it increases his leverage negotiating how much he gets paid in Buffalo.

It’s about player evaluation and the business of hockey. The choices may end up working out the way they foresee, or they may not.

But there’s no surprises here.

Ya but it also means Buffalo's offer to him was not close to what he wants/expects. Players don't really like filing for arbitration either. It's a process that often creates bad blood and can mess with term too. Adams is going to have a hard time arguing here as he's already said he sees Timmons as an upgrade on Clifton. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

JBD signed w Det for 875K.  We paid a 2nd to get JBD but wouldn't part with 875K to keep him. Pure genius.  

Maybe re-sign JBD, who played well in his 15 games, and also trade for Timmins. Guess what, you'd have depth behind Kesselring and maybe real competition for jobs.  G-d forbid.   I defer to Adams guaranteed roster spot system because that has worked so well.

Edited 8 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

So just so we're clear Adams didn't sign JBD because Arbitration but traded a 2nd to get Timmins who filed for Arbitration. 

And I'm suppose to believe the difference between Jbd and Timmins is so large, this is some strategy?

Not sure why it’s easier to believe Adams is too stupid to know the the rules than it is to believe he’s too stupid to judge the difference between Timmins and JBD.

I’m not aware of other examples of him screwing up the rules, but I’ve seen plenty of bad player evaluations. This is right in line with “Clifton is worth $10M over 3 years, and Beck Malenstyn is worth pick #43.

 

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya but it also means Buffalo's offer to him was not close to what he wants/expects. Players don't really like filing for arbitration either. It's a process that often creates bad blood and can mess with term too. Adams is going to have a hard time arguing here as he's already said he sees Timmons as an upgrade on Clifton. 

 

As others have said, few of those who elect arbitration ever get there; they usually select it to force the other side to get serious about negotiations, so they can avoid it.

[shrader]

5 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Someone tell me how I’m supposed to feel about this?

Your post is perfect. That’s exactly how you’re supposed to feel.