Do we have a Coaching Problem?

[Wyldnwoody44]

I guess in the flurry of all the trade rumors and the watching of the finals. Are we maybe looking at the roster totally wrong? 

All of these ex sabres are doing well on other teams (sure, the rosters are likely better) but this sabres team has been so bad for so long that we are stocked with actual talent. The constant is the coaching has been, trash. 

After Bylsma, we went down a rabbit hole of first timers and hogwash, Rolston, Krueger, Housley, Granato. Perhaps a couple of them had some ok ideas, but it clearly never translated to the team. We never had a DeBoer, Gallant, Berube, Maurice to get the most out of our players.... Don't even get me started on the assistant coaching staff 🤢

Could a premier coach come in and get more out of this group? I guess that's a difficult question to answer but it appears the Sabres are unable to still play team defense, take very dumb mistimed penalties and seem to not have a lot of accountability for their poor play. Don't even bring up the not having each others back portion of it. 

The PP/PK has been bad for years now, we can't win a face off in a close game, etc etc. 

I suppose, do we think if we got a top 5 coach this year (including new staff) with minimal changes otherwise to the roster, could that be enough to make it? 

This is less about KA, who has been a joke of a "Manager" and more about the bench boss and team interaction. 

[LGR4GM]

Terry and Kevyn have decided that Appert is the next coach and this is Ruffs last year. It's basically the dumbest thing in hockey after the repeated terrible seasons to keep all the assistants and just promote your AHL coach. 

These guys don't have an ounce of the mentality needed to get better. It's all about their friends and keeping the ppl they "trust" where outcomes are irrelevant. 

Yes, we have a coaching problem starting with Ruff who Adams lied to us about. They had a fake search and hired Terry's nostalgia hire. Appert is here because Adams likes him. Why Wolford is here still is beyond me. His defense is soft. 

[GoPuckYourself]

I wasn't a fan of the Ruff hire then and still feel the same way now, my guy was Berube and I think it would have made a difference because there is no way he was keeping that staff that we had. Why would Ruff come here and not be able to pick his own assistants? Probably because nobody was clamoring for him any longer until the desperate Sabres came along. Maybe he can salvage this group but the knock on him in New Jersey was he didn't hold players accountable and we saw it so many times, Power was never benched for his horrendous defensive lapses but he'd bench guys like NAK/Lafferty etc. (Which I agree they should have been due to lack of bad play but so should Power and others). The entire hiring of Ruff was to bring fans back into the seats, they unfortunately couldn't give a crap about winning imo which was displayed when we had a 13 game losing streak.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I wasn't a fan of the Ruff hire then and still feel the same way now, my guy was Berube and I think it would have made a difference because there is no way he was keeping that staff that we had. Why would Ruff come here and not be able to pick his own assistants? Probably because nobody was clamoring for him any longer until the desperate Sabres came along. Maybe he can salvage this group but the knock on him in New Jersey was he didn't hold players accountable and we saw it so many times, Power was never benched for his horrendous defensive lapses but he'd bench guys like NAK/Lafferty etc. (Which I agree they should have been due to lack of bad play but so should Power and others). The entire hiring of Ruff was to bring fans back into the seats, they unfortunately couldn't give a crap about winning imo which was displayed when we had a 13 game losing streak.

Ruff benched Zach Benson for taking a penalty that wasn't even a penalty. He's ALWAYS been like this where vets or his favorites can ***** up but young guys beware. 

[Flashsabre]

To be real I think the Sabres have the worst coaching staff in the league. Not a single change has been made. Beyond pathetic.

I think Prospal in Rochester has a future so they will let him walk. Leone had a promising year.

[JP51]

3 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

To be real I think the Sabres have the worst coaching staff in the league. Not a single change has been made. Beyond pathetic.

I think Prospal in Rochester has a future so they will let him walk. Leone had a promising year.

It was difficult to see that Mike Peca signed as an assistant coach as well... like you couldnt find a spot for him...?  But I think our coaching situation is similar to the WWE it is basically scripted to what is going to happen next....  Not sure their plans for Ruff the boot or the FO, I feel like Appert is the next anointed shill after we miss the playoffs this year...  Pay him peanuts, move him up dont hire a replacement just shuffle responsibilities and save money... plus Terry likes them... so all is well in the Sound proof bubble that is the FO. 

[Indabuff]

What's that Swedish coach with the beard been up to?

[PromoTheRobot]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Terry and Kevyn have decided that Appert is the next coach and this is Ruffs last year. It's basically the dumbest thing in hockey after the repeated terrible seasons to keep all the assistants and just promote your AHL coach. 

These guys don't have an ounce of the mentality needed to get better. It's all about their friends and keeping the ppl they "trust" where outcomes are irrelevant. 

Yes, we have a coaching problem starting with Ruff who Adams lied to us about. They had a fake search and hired Terry's nostalgia hire. Appert is here because Adams likes him. Why Wolford is here still is beyond me. His defense is soft. 

Link?

[K-9]

While better coaching may have a part in it, I think the main reason ex-Sabres do better on other teams after leaving here has less to do with the coaching on those other teams than it does on the fact that we serve as a farm team for those teams who acquire our players after several years of developing at the NHL level. 

[LGR4GM]

50 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Link?

It's fairly obvious but no, I don't have a link. That's just the scuttlebutt around the team. 

[Flashsabre]

No other coaching vacancies. Go get him. Kick Lindy upstairs. The guy gets results.

Edited 9 hours ago by Flashsabre

[Jorcus]

I honestly don't know how to tell a good coach from a bad coach. By most peoples standards 90% of the coaches in the NHL are bad. A lot of the time all it takes is a goaltender to make a coach look good or bad. There are few good coaches without good players. I did dive into our coaches vs the points over/under predictions for the season as given by Hockey-reference.com. The over unders are published back to 2010-2011 season. Only 4 times have Sabres coaches beat the target since then.

 

2010-2011 Ruff  O/U 91.5  finished with 96

2015-2016 Bylsma  O/U 75.5  finished with 81

2021-2022  Granato O/U 68.5  finished with 75

2022-2023  Granato O/U 77.5  Finished with 91

 

Not sure if that is a true indication of coaching ability but thought it was interesting.  

[CallawaySabres]

None of it matters, honestly. No coach better than Ruff will come to this mess. It's players, coaching, GM, scouting....the list is endless which is why 15 years is coming up. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

While better coaching may have a part in it, I think the main reason ex-Sabres do better on other teams after leaving here has less to do with the coaching on those other teams than it does on the fact that we serve as a farm team for those teams who acquire our players after several years of developing at the NHL level. 

The league is full of ex Sabres.   Some are stars that were mistreated, some were solid players that didn't fit the plan of the ever-changing new regimes, some were just young players that they moved on from. 

The league is full of Evan Rodrigues types of payers.  Rodrigues is a former Sabre.  He looks great as a role player on an already great team, he takes advantage of that and he works hard and contributes, but put him on a average or below average team and ask him to carry some weight and he is no longer nearly as good.  

To the question at hand, the Sabres head coach selections after Lindy Ruff was fired were Rolston, Nolan, Bylsma, Housley, Krueger, Granato, and then back to Ruff.  I doubt that even our best Pegula apologists can find a team with a worse HC hiring record over any 14+ year time frame in the NHL.   Same with the GM.  

Good and great players have been here, but the coaching has not been.   Again, a former Sabre and former coach told me how bad it was under the Adams/Granato rebuild and he predicted the next coach after Granato would struggle mightily because of it.   That just happened.  

The lack of success is 100% due to the Sabres Front Office and its because the Owners have been running things into the ground.   

[Mustache of God]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Terry and Kevyn have decided that Appert is the next coach and this is Ruffs last year. It's basically the dumbest thing in hockey after the repeated terrible seasons to keep all the assistants and just promote your AHL coach. 

These guys don't have an ounce of the mentality needed to get better. It's all about their friends and keeping the ppl they "trust" where outcomes are irrelevant. 

Yes, we have a coaching problem starting with Ruff who Adams lied to us about. They had a fake search and hired Terry's nostalgia hire. Appert is here because Adams likes him. Why Wolford is here still is beyond me. His defense is soft. 

Wilford is here because Dahlin and Power both really like him.

[Weave]

Right now there are too damn many gaps to tell.  Get an established 1G and spend to near the cap on good vets, and maybe we can answer the question in the title.

[Thorny]

Relative to DeBoer?

I mean ya 

Sabres could do a Jarmo/DeBoer GM coach duo if they wanted. They could make the playoffs in 2026 if they wanted to

[Mr Peabody]

I’m with Weave,  knowing the make up this team not sure any coach could be successful.  Regarding Appert as the heir apparent; if we don’t make playoffs this year I don’t believe KA will have a voice about the next coaching staff. 

[pi2000]

I, for one, believe Appert is a good coach.   

He'll be successful as a head coach in the NHL if put in the right situation as a rookie HC.

He's energetic and has charisma.    Players like him.   

He was successful in Rochester and helped develop guys like Krebs, Peterka, Kulich and Quinn.

That said, I don't believe Buffalo is a good fit for him to take over HC duties.  

Buffalo needs a veteran HC with a recent track record of success in the NHL, someone the young players can trust and lean on... not somebody learning the ropes.

[Brawndo]

 

[Flashsabre]

A smart organization would bring in DeBoer and Steve Spott today.

The Sabres who haven’t made the playoffs in 14 years will say they believe in this staff and they don’t want anyone blocking Appert🤬 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The league is full of ex Sabres.   Some are stars that were mistreated, some were solid players that didn't fit the plan of the ever-changing new regimes, some were just young players that they moved on from. 

The league is full of Evan Rodrigues types of payers.  Rodrigues is a former Sabre.  He looks great as a role player on an already great team, he takes advantage of that and he works hard and contributes, but put him on a average or below average team and ask him to carry some weight and he is no longer nearly as good.  

To the question at hand, the Sabres head coach selections after Lindy Ruff was fired were Rolston, Nolan, Bylsma, Housley, Krueger, Granato, and then back to Ruff.  I doubt that even our best Pegula apologists can find a team with a worse HC hiring record over any 14+ year time frame in the NHL.   Same with the GM.  

Good and great players have been here, but the coaching has not been.   Again, a former Sabre and former coach told me how bad it was under the Adams/Granato rebuild and he predicted the next coach after Granato would struggle mightily because of it.   That just happened.  

The lack of success is 100% due to the Sabres Front Office and its because the Owners have been running things into the ground.   

Just to be clear, I didn’t say coaching wasn’t a part of it. It certainly has been. 

[Flashsabre]

DeBoer is from Dunnville right across the border and apparently his son goes to Niagara University. Can’t tell me he wouldn’t be interested.

[Flashsabre]

 

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

I, for one, believe Appert is a good coach.   

He'll be successful as a head coach in the NHL if put in the right situation as a rookie HC.

He's energetic and has charisma.    Players like him.   

He was successful in Rochester and helped develop guys like Krebs, Peterka, Kulich and Quinn.

That said, I don't believe Buffalo is a good fit for him to take over HC duties.  

Buffalo needs a veteran HC with a recent track record of success in the NHL, someone the young players can trust and lean on... not somebody learning the ropes.

Seth wasn't a particularly good college coach, really wasn't anything special as Amerks coach (he was carried by talent and largely underachieved outside of the one fluke playoff run) and completely sucked as an NHL assistant.