Has the Adams rebuild failed completely?

[dudacek]

@Flashsabre asked the question in another thread:

Has Terry had enough and does he want to get serious about fixing this mess?

Which brought up something I'm really curious about:

Does Sabrespace think the existing core of the Sabres can still grow into the core of regular playoff team, as Kevyn Adams has clearly preached and managed toward up until this point?

Has the Adams rebuild had a setback, or has it failed completely?

Edited April 14 by dudacek

[Weave]

I don’t think it is a slam dunk that our core is the right core.  Legit concerns regarding Thompson and Cozens as your 1-2 center punch.

I’m not really concerned about the defense.  

[mjd1001]

As with many things, there is a bit of a middle ground and a lot of 'it depends'.

Of the players you mentioned, I'm very confident Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, UPL and Dahlin can be part of that core.  Barring another Injury, I think Tage gets 50 next year and Dahlin is one of the top 10 D-men in the league.

Power I am just as confident with, but I think he's a year or two away.

Byrum, Levi, Quinn are hopeful, but too early to tell.

Cozens, I'm really down on right now.  He is young, he can turn it round, but at the moment, I'm thinking he is closer to a 15-20 goal scorer that is poor defensively and hurts you in your own zone.....rather than a 30 goal scorer that is a good 2 way player.  They are playing for the 2nd of those 2 things, if he is the first, thats not a good player you want to rely on at all.  I really want him as a winger all year next year, and for the team, management, coaches to not think of him as a player that will be a net positive unless he proves it again.

Edited April 14 by mjd1001

[Buffalonill]

He built a environment that the players know they can have fun with no consequences

 

Edited April 14 by Buffalonill

[GoPuckYourself]

The fact that I wouldn't mind seeing any of these guys traded says alot imo. In years past I had at least 1 player I wanted to keep at very least but I don't feel that way about any of this core group of players, maybe Benson is about all I'd want to keep.

Edited April 14 by GoPuckYourself

[PerreaultForever]

I still hold to the idea that they have done it backwards. To do it right you need to build the culture FIRST and then you bring the young future stars into the existing culture and they develop and later thrive. This matches Trotts comments in Nashville and to some extent Torts in Philly. I assume Yzerman signed all those vets for similar reasons. Adams on the other hand wants them to grow as a group and somehow coalesce into a winning culture and I don't think that works but maybe there's a way for that to eventually happen. Maybe. Maybe not. 

This off season tells the tale imo. If they stay the course, well, then forget it. We will be the same and we will head to an eventual further tear down and new guy and do it all over again and get nowhere cycle. If they do add missing pieces and make key moves and turn the roster into a solid balanced NHL roster with a good coach, then maybe we have a true beginning. Cynically, numb from 13 years of failure, I have few actual hopes for that to happen.

[Flashsabre]

The Ray of Hope is the Vancouver Canucks. Same core but they brought in Tocchet, Gonchar, Foote as a coaching staff and changed everything around. 
I believe the right coaching staff that demands accountability and structure could turn this team into a playoff squad next season.

Whether the Sabres are willing to do it and have any clue who those coaches would be is a completely different conversation.

[Sabres73]

The disciplined rebuild in retrospect will be seen as a long-term success. Missing the playoffs this year is just not seeing the big picture that will unfold over the next several years. It seems pretty obvious to me that that is where this team is going. 

[bunomatic]

I think theres still time to tweek this roster with the proper players and get to the promised land. I have a hard time believing KA, DG or TP for that matter are the guys to do it. 

[jad1]

5 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

The disciplined rebuild in retrospect will be seen as a long-term success. Missing the playoffs this year is just not seeing the big picture that will unfold over the next several years. It seems pretty obvious to me that that is where this team is going. 

Sure this team will be good when the the 22 and 23 year olds turn 25 and 26.  By then, though, this franchise could lose 100 more games, and miss the playoffs 3 more seasons.

Adams needs to add skill and experience to the coaching staff and roster, but has turned this franchise toxic to those candidates.  

Adams is a failure and his performance has not merited the patience that this franchise is demanding from its fanbase to continue his plan.

[Night Train]

One cannot lament over the lack of playoffs and then oppose change. 

and yet..

[Believer]

2 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

The fact that I wouldn't mind seeing any of these guys traded says alot imo. In years past I had at least 1 player I wanted to keep at very least but I don't feel that way about any of this core group of players, maybe Benson is about all I'd want to keep.

UPL 

[OverPowerYou]

I am mad an angry and pissed like Everyone  else. I think they just need a few gritty forwards to fill in the holes 

[GoPuckYourself]

16 minutes ago, Believer said:

UPL 

I like him but I have to see it for more than 1/4 of a season in a contract year.

[SABRES 0311]

As constructed, absolutely not. Build a team where TNT and Cozens are 2C and 3C then we can talk perennial playoffs.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I firmly believe the core guys will develop into a regular playoff team.

This year they focused on cutting down the goals against and playing team defence.  If not for that, which I think had to happen to learn what it takes to win in the playoff, and was the goal scoring machine of last year they may just have made it - the cut off this season looks to be 89 points in the Prince of Wales Conference.  Campbell looks to be 100 points playoff cutoff.

If the scoring comes back even a bit next season and if 6K continues as he did in the second half of this season and if his backup is not some dude off the scrap pile and ... the Sabres will be in the playoff.  Book it.

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

As constructed, absolutely not. Build a team where TNT and Cozens are 2C and 3C then we can talk perennial playoffs.

 

Paying cozens that kind of money for a 3rd line center( that you're projecting him) is ridiculous 

 

Edited April 14 by Buffalonill

[PASabreFan]

Hey, Jack, just paint your fence will ya? You've returned paint six times. You've watched countless videos. The weather according to you has canceled your painting for the last nine weeks because you didn't think the overnight temps would be high enough for the paint to cure. Paint. The. Fence. We know Nance wants it to be the Backyard Fence Magazine centerfold. But just paint it. Maybe next year you can bedazzle it. Do what everyone else does. Paint it! It's not that hard.

The rest of you stop enabling Jack's dilly dallying and incompetence. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I firmly believe the core guys will develop into a regular playoff team.

This year they focused on cutting down the goals against and playing team defence.  If not for that, which I think had to happen to learn what it takes to win in the playoff, and was the goal scoring machine of last year they may just have made it - the cut off this season looks to be 89 points in the Prince of Wales Conference.  Campbell looks to be 100 points playoff cutoff.

If the scoring comes back even a bit next season and if 6K continues as he did in the second half of this season and if his backup is not some dude off the scrap pile and ... the Sabres will be in the playoff.  Book it.

Why do ppl keep saying this? The defense wasn't that much better. The goaltending was but the defense was still meh. 

Granato changed his system to be more defensive. It craters the offense while providing negligible returns on defense. In fact because it cratered the offense so substantially, the defense actually got worse. Every players xgf% went down. So goaltending saved us. 

Granato is a fraud.

[Flashsabre]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why do ppl keep saying this? The defense wasn't that much better. The goaltending was but the defense was still meh. 

Granato changed his system to be more defensive. It craters the offense while providing negligible returns on defense. In fact because it cratered the offense so substantially, the defense actually got worse. Every players xgf% went down. So goaltending saved us. 

Granato is a fraud.

Granato’s plan to just let them play run and gun last year and teach them defence this year was such a red flag. The whole idea from Adams down to go with the kids has not worked. Kids develop when out in a structured system with vet talent to lead the way.

Look at the amount of young QBs that get drafted early and go to bottom teams and fall flat in their faces. They don’t have the talent around them to succeed.

A player like Power is dying for a quality vet D partner to help him out.

[DarthEbriate]

Completely? No. He’s moved the goalposts to a timeline fitting Power/Byram maturity (24+). That’s not what starving fans want, but it’s fine for his paycheck. He’s just cackling, “I’ll make it legal!”

But if he loses Dahlin or Quinn because they become sick of being here or this churns another 2-3 seasons without a playoff appearance, then this is going to reset once again. And that is a possibility.

[SABRES 0311]

42 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Paying cozens that kind of money for a 3rd line center( that you're projecting him) is ridiculous 

 

I’m not the one paying him 😂 

Also not the one trying to wish him into something he’s not.

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, OverPowerYou said:

I am mad an angry and pissed like Everyone  else. I think they just need a few gritty forwards to fill in the holes 

Right now, I think they need that, plus a 2C probably, at least 3C that can win faceoffs and has a strong 2 way game, along with maybe a veteran D that isn't made of glass like Mule to absorb minutes and play a defensively responsible role, someone who isn't running on fumes and ready for the glue factory, and a veteran backup for UPL would be nice, so that Levi can properly mature into an NHL goalie. Aside from that, how about a gritty coach who holds the team accountable, instead of enabling softness and habitual slow starts?

 

[Pimlach]

They can do it!  
 

 

They need help, they need coaching, and some players need to be added.   They definitely have some very good players on the roster and lots of trade capital to work with.  

Edited April 15 by Pimlach

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

The Ray of Hope is the Vancouver Canucks. Same core but they brought in Tocchet, Gonchar, Foote as a coaching staff and changed everything around. 
I believe the right coaching staff that demands accountability and structure could turn this team into a playoff squad next season.

Whether the Sabres are willing to do it and have any clue who those coaches would be is a completely different conversation.

 

 

100%.  From laughing stock to one of the top teams in the league.   No doubt in my mind the Sabres would replicate under a guy like Brind'mour 

Ruff gets them into the playoffs 

DG with a good coaching staff and a few changes to the lineup and he gets them in next year 

Edited April 15 by Crusader1969