Crusader1969 Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 If: Skinner Thompson Tuch JJP Cozens Quinn Mitts Are 7 of the top 9 for the next few years. Who are the guys who take to 2 remaining spots in the top 9? Are you better to have a traditional 4th line or go 4 scoring lines? you could potentially go with a bottom 6 of: Savoie Mitts Benson Greenway Kulich Rosen Personally, I'd like them to acquire a hardnosed Power Forward type (ie Lawson Crouse) and trade away one of the prospects but which one will be the million dollar question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 I think Krebs may be the last one standing when the music stops. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 I can’t think of any teams that have ever attempted 4 scoring lines. The Sabres certainly have players and prospects that fit into that category and could try it. The salary cap has prevented teams from trying that but the Sabres could due to a multitude of ELCs. Can these young guys score at the NHL level? They have skill but they need strength to win battles and to survive the grind. It would seem that this approach would just want to trade chances and win 8-6 games. Could that work in the playoffs? It did for the 80’s Oilers but they still had grinders in their bottom 6. Puck possession means having to play less defense so there is that. You need a puck hounding mentality to get it back and Benson and Quinn may be the only 2 young guys capable of that. We already complain about a lack of grit and this doesn’t help. A traditional 4th line would provide sandpaper and a defensive conscience. If 1 forward per line had a high level of defensive awareness, you could get away with a swashbuckling team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted November 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 47 minutes ago, French Collection said: I can’t think of any teams that have ever attempted 4 scoring lines. The Sabres certainly have players and prospects that fit into that category and could try it. The salary cap has prevented teams from trying that but the Sabres could due to a multitude of ELCs. Can these young guys score at the NHL level? They have skill but they need strength to win battles and to survive the grind. It would seem that this approach would just want to trade chances and win 8-6 games. Could that work in the playoffs? It did for the 80’s Oilers but they still had grinders in their bottom 6. Puck possession means having to play less defense so there is that. You need a puck hounding mentality to get it back and Benson and Quinn may be the only 2 young guys capable of that. We already complain about a lack of grit and this doesn’t help. A traditional 4th line would provide sandpaper and a defensive conscience. If 1 forward per line had a high level of defensive awareness, you could get away with a swashbuckling team. i actually like this idea a lot. roll 4 lines that can score. If the game is tight coming down the stretch, then shorten the bench or create a line of your best Defensive players at that point. But the premise would be, play at a pace that the opponent can not keep up, since they can not match your 4 lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said: If: Skinner Thompson Tuch JJP Cozens Quinn Mitts Are 7 of the top 9 for the next few years. Who are the guys who take to 2 remaining spots in the top 9? Are you better to have a traditional 4th line or go 4 scoring lines? you could potentially go with a bottom 6 of: Savoie Mitts Benson Greenway Kulich Rosen Personally, I'd like them to acquire a hardnosed Power Forward type (ie Lawson Crouse) and trade away one of the prospects but which one will be the million dollar question. I liked the Greenway Mitts Benson line. Seemed like a good mix of power, skill, and playmaking. At the very least I’d like to see more of Mitts and Benson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said: If: Skinner Thompson Tuch JJP Cozens Quinn Mitts Are 7 of the top 9 for the next few years. Who are the guys who take to 2 remaining spots in the top 9? Are you better to have a traditional 4th line or go 4 scoring lines? you could potentially go with a bottom 6 of: Savoie Mitts Benson Greenway Kulich Rosen Personally, I'd like them to acquire a hardnosed Power Forward type (ie Lawson Crouse) and trade away one of the prospects but which one will be the million dollar question. Savoie is a RW if not at C, which would be fine as Benson is a LW even more so than a RW pet peeve of mine sure but like, the correct config is right there lol Edited November 22, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said: i actually like this idea a lot. roll 4 lines that can score. If the game is tight coming down the stretch, then shorten the bench or create a line of your best Defensive players at that point. But the premise would be, play at a pace that the opponent can not keep up, since they can not match your 4 lines. I don't have any data to support my theory on this, but my assertion is that having 4 scoring lines is difficult in the modern day salary cap era. Once upon a time, it was easier to support more high salary contracts absent a cap constraint. If you can build a 3rd or even 4th scoring line with cheaper players on their rookie contracts (have enough prospects to do this), then maybe this can happen (i.e. Sabres)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted November 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Thorny said: Savoie is a RW if not at C, which would be fine as Benson is a LW even more so than a RW pet peeve of mine sure but like, the correct config is right there lol Thanks for the correction 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Crusader1969 said: If: Skinner Thompson Tuch JJP Cozens Quinn Mitts Are 7 of the top 9 for the next few years. Who are the guys who take to 2 remaining spots in the top 9? Are you better to have a traditional 4th line or go 4 scoring lines? you could potentially go with a bottom 6 of: Savoie Mitts Benson Greenway Kulich Rosen Personally, I'd like them to acquire a hardnosed Power Forward type (ie Lawson Crouse) and trade away one of the prospects but which one will be the million dollar question. It’s hard to know what is going to happen. Skinner, Tuch, TNT, Cozens, Greenway, Quinn and JJP are under contract. I don’t see a reason that any of them will be traded. Mitts is rapidly earning an extension. Given our need for centers, playmakers and defensively responsible players, Mitts seems like a necessity going forward. That’s 8 returning forwards. The next wave is knocking on the door. Benson is on his way to staying in Buffalo this season. Note: if he doesn’t return to Juniors this season, he won’t be eligible for the AHL next year either because of his age (if he plays in Juniors this season, he’ll have 4 years in the WHL and will be exempt from the age requirement). Rosen and Kulich are dominating offensively in the AHL and will earn a call-up soon than later. Savoie is now probably a step behind Benson, Kulich and Rosen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted November 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 Assuming that Benson doesn't regresss it's becoming clearer that there is probably only 1 spot in the Sabres lineup available next year for Kulich, Savoie and Rosen to fight over, not to mention all the other high end prospect they have. Its tough to walk away from one or more of these guys but at some point you just have to. Imagine a lineup that had another true top 4 dman, where the Johnson brothers, Clifton and Joker are the bottom 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted November 29, 2023 Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 4:10 PM, French Collection said: I can’t think of any teams that have ever attempted 4 scoring lines. The Sabres certainly have players and prospects that fit into that category and could try it. The salary cap has prevented teams from trying that but the Sabres could due to a multitude of ELCs. Can these young guys score at the NHL level? They have skill but they need strength to win battles and to survive the grind. It would seem that this approach would just want to trade chances and win 8-6 games. Could that work in the playoffs? It did for the 80’s Oilers but they still had grinders in their bottom 6. Puck possession means having to play less defense so there is that. You need a puck hounding mentality to get it back and Benson and Quinn may be the only 2 young guys capable of that. We already complain about a lack of grit and this doesn’t help. A traditional 4th line would provide sandpaper and a defensive conscience. If 1 forward per line had a high level of defensive awareness, you could get away with a swashbuckling team. Sabres 2005-06. They had so much depth. What made it work is that’ Drury-Grier could fill the defensive role that a bottom 6 line usually is asked to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresparaavida Posted November 29, 2023 Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 5:21 PM, SABRES 0311 said: I liked the Greenway Mitts Benson line. Seemed like a good mix of power, skill, and playmaking. At the very least I’d like to see more of Mitts and Benson. I disagree here, while that line did play well together, I think the lineup is better served with Mitts and Benson on different lines. Both Mitts and Benson, while they do have goal-scoring ability, their passing and set up ability are their biggest threat. They are the closest the Sabres have to pure playmakers among the forwards. Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Tuch, Quinn and Peterka all range somewhere between balanced (passing vs shooting), and more on the goal scoring side. I think their abilities would be better suited separate, to set up our various goal scorers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 29, 2023 Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said: I disagree here, while that line did play well together, I think the lineup is better served with Mitts and Benson on different lines. Both Mitts and Benson, while they do have goal-scoring ability, their passing and set up ability are their biggest threat. They are the closest the Sabres have to pure playmakers among the forwards. Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Tuch, Quinn and Peterka all range somewhere between balanced (passing vs shooting), and more on the goal scoring side. I think their abilities would be better suited separate, to set up our various goal scorers. Interesting thought. And it's been looking pretty good since Tuch came back having them on separate lines. Will be very interesting to see what happens when Thompson comes back. Depending on how close to 100% he is, could see him ending up on the 3rd line briefly with Greenway and somebody else - right now would expect that would be Olofsson but if VO has turned back into a pumpkin by then it could be any of the other bottom 6ers that are up or have been up recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted November 29, 2023 Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 Tage was a huge bust at one time let's hope Krebs Repeats that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 29, 2023 Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: Tage was a huge bust at one time let's hope Krebs Repeats that Krebs is only 22 (turns 23 in January). Way too young to call him a bust, but depending upon how other youngsters progress, he might end up turning into a quality player (should that happen) with a different organization. He likely won't get as much runway to takeoff as Thompson, Mittelstadt, and the rest of the kids that are up on the big club got because there are more guys ahead of him than they had "blocking" them and more guys likely pushing credibly than they had to fight off too. And if he does end up good for somebody else, good for him, just hope the Sabres get a reasonable value for him should they reach a point they have to move on from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted November 29, 2023 Report Share Posted November 29, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 4:10 PM, French Collection said: I can’t think of any teams that have ever attempted 4 scoring lines. The Sabres certainly have players and prospects that fit into that category and could try it. The salary cap has prevented teams from trying that but the Sabres could due to a multitude of ELCs. Can these young guys score at the NHL level? They have skill but they need strength to win battles and to survive the grind. It would seem that this approach would just want to trade chances and win 8-6 games. Could that work in the playoffs? It did for the 80’s Oilers but they still had grinders in their bottom 6. Puck possession means having to play less defense so there is that. You need a puck hounding mentality to get it back and Benson and Quinn may be the only 2 young guys capable of that. We already complain about a lack of grit and this doesn’t help. A traditional 4th line would provide sandpaper and a defensive conscience. If 1 forward per line had a high level of defensive awareness, you could get away with a swashbuckling team. You as well I as well as many know they are going to need muscle. You know of what I speak. They have the Chios to get the tops in the league. We'll see if Adams has the strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Allen Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 I think Mitts is more deserving of the 2C spot than Cozens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 2c? Hell, let's be honest here, Mitts is playing 1c playmaker. Don't deny it. Admit it, and let's go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 Skinner Mitts Tuch Peterka Tage Quinn Greenway Cozens Benson Would be a good Top 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 4:21 PM, SABRES 0311 said: I liked the Greenway Mitts Benson line. Seemed like a good mix of power, skill, and playmaking. At the very least I’d like to see more of Mitts and Benson. Agree, but I also think this might be a very effective shutdown line. Mitts is perhaps our best 2-way forward, Benson, though small, has a great nose for backchecking, and Greenway is effective on the PK. I could see them shutting down opposing lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 1:41 PM, Crusader1969 said: If: Skinner Thompson Tuch JJP Cozens Quinn Mitts Are 7 of the top 9 for the next few years. Who are the guys who take to 2 remaining spots in the top 9? Are you better to have a traditional 4th line or go 4 scoring lines? you could potentially go with a bottom 6 of: Savoie Mitts Benson Greenway Kulich Rosen Personally, I'd like them to acquire a hardnosed Power Forward type (ie Lawson Crouse) and trade away one of the prospects but which one will be the million dollar question. Where does Biro fit? 13F? Right now I think he might be above Savoie, Kulich and Rosen from an NHL-ready standpoint although I admit that could change by next summer. If you do trade for a veteran forward, perhaps one or two of Biro, Savoie, Kulich and Rosen get moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 I think Benson is a lock and Mitts is pretty iffy due to the likely cost to keep him (which I think is inflated relative to his actual value). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I think Benson is a lock and Mitts is pretty iffy due to the likely cost to keep him (which I think is inflated relative to his actual value). Mitts hasn't been a disappointment as of late. He's filling in nicely on line 1, face off wins not withstanding. He's going to get paid for sure. Here? I can't say. Just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I think Benson is a lock and Mitts is pretty iffy due to the likely cost to keep him (which I think is inflated relative to his actual value). I have a brother in law who thinks once you have an opinion on something if you change your mind it makes you a hypocrite. He doesn't grasp that educated, intelligent people make opinions based on observations and available information, and with more observations and information opinions can change. He also has an eighth grade education, has never held a steady job and constantly asked my wife for money. That's who you remind me of when it comes to Mitts. You've never liked him and you never will, production be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterExpat Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 51 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I think Benson is a lock and Mitts is pretty iffy due to the likely cost to keep him (which I think is inflated relative to his actual value). Out of curiosity, what do you think his next contract should look like? I’m not sure I’m as negative about Mitts as you, but I am worried he’s going to price himself out of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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