GDT: Sabres @ Islanders - October 14, 2023 - 7:30PM, MSG-B/MSGSN/ESPN+📺WGR📻

[triumph_communes]

The breakdowns all happened with a singular person back there. Point fingers. Clifton is a bust

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Can anyone explain how a puck that was deflected down hitting the crossbar isn't a high stick?

It didn’t hit the crossbar. It was probably 4 to 6 inches below it. Watch the video on the NHL app. The puck as well below the crossbar and after the deflection it travels level. Physics checks out.

[Night Train]

It is 2 games in and the sky hasn't flattened anyones head yet. 

It does seem some of our " stars " that have been given good contracts the last couple of years have yet to break a sweat the first 2 games. Floating back on D still shows up. Some bad bounces and calls vs. the Islanders. 

This team needs to wake up this week with better efforts. We'll see. When Greenway is your best player so far, it's very telling. He's hustling and playing well with Benson and Mitts. Where is eveyone else ? 

[LGR4GM]

The short version is the Sabres are not playing good enough. I'm glad they have 2 days off because I think that will help. Also, having 1 line showing the rest up is good, internal competition. 

[Scottysabres]

42 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think some players can't sharpen their skates so to speak, without live game action. I think the mistake was not using 3 preseason games to ice the full roster and shake the rust off. 

Yes, I agree with this.

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd start benching guys but Granato won't. Olofsson would sit and I'd toss Krebs there. Jost can sit between Zemgus and Okposo. 

This is my move for Tampa game. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, freester said:

I think Okposo needs to sit and Krebs needs to play with Cozens and Peterka. Move VO down to 4th line. 

Move Jost to 4th line center, move Krebs to VO’s wing 

[LabattBlue]

While I chime in with the occasional snark, after 12 years, I find it hard to get worked up with post game venom.
 

Just kind of numb after all this time. 
 

 

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

It didn’t hit the crossbar. It was probably 4 to 6 inches below it. Watch the video on the NHL app. The puck as well below the crossbar and after the deflection it travels level. Physics checks out.

IMHO it's nearly impossible to decipher anything from replays involving high sticks. The NHL needs better technology. Absent that I'd like to see the NHL remove this situation from review.

Going back to shoulder height would be better. Not entirely fair... But it makes for an easier call.

[PASabreFan]

7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

While I chime in with the occasional snark, after 12 years, I find it hard to get worked up with post game venom.
 

Just kind of numb after all this time. 
 

 

I'm not numb, but...

 

[Pimlach]

I don’t think the sky is falling after 2 games against good veteran teams.  

As previously stated, we need more from our core.  They (Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Dahlin, Cozens) need to get on the scoresheet and be accounted for.   Also, our 4th line is old and slow.   I suspect we will see some Rochester players later in the season.  

I thought we played good enough to beat NYI.  It was a game were all the close calls went the other way.  

Clifton is pressing and making mistakes.  I still like his physical play, and his willingness to jump into the play in the offensive zone.  I still think he can help us. If not, Bryson is your man until R Johnson  gets ready.   Sound good?  

Granato will be under a close microscope this year.  The talent is there, now the effort and results have to be better. 

Readiness to play is a valid comment.  The preseason was a big giant hockey camp for the Sabres prospects and as a result several players are slow to get up to game speed.  

On the good side - Eric Johnson looks like a nice addition.  Peterka is transforming into a man now.  Benson is not afraid to play in this league.  Greenway is surprisingly good so far. 

If I have to hear that Power is not worth $8M for 80 more games then the ignore button will be used. He will make mistakes like all 20 year old defenseman.  He will also play at a high level and that play will mostly be taken for granted because expectations are sky high for him.  Might I suggest we discuss the strategy of paying Power a long term deal, not a bridge, in the Power Thread and not the game day thread. 
 

Goaltending is still, by far, my biggest concern.  

[Brawndo]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Chychrun with 2 goals for Ottawa today looked really good too. What was the rumor on our attempt, Adams had a first and second and they wanted two firsts or something similar? The difference basically being 1 draft pick. Adams blew it. 

 

 

The Coyotes were asking for a first and Matt Savoie in exchange initially, after Buffalo agreed to the same terms that Arizona got from the Sens, they took Ottawa’s Offer as they figured their First would be higher and they were right. (This was reported by Craig Morgan) 

I like Chychrun as a player, His number one problem is availability. He has played a full season once and that was 56 games in the Covid shorten season. He averages 53 games played in an 82 game season and he would not have been available for the playoffs last year. 
 

Had the trade gone through Zach Benson isn’t a Sabre. 

 

[Thorny]

11 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Again, yelling about it is all well and good but there's evidence he has attempted to acquire pieces like Chychrun and potentially Pesce. Matt Murray was also targeted and declined; Gibson and Swayman were targets before in previous trades.

There is a major difference between sitting on your hands and doing nothing versus trying but failing. They don't amount to much in differing results but it does matter in terms of arguments. He isn't blissfully ignoring issues; he's just conservative with his assets and is likely getting skewered by teams in trade offers since they would know what we need as much as we fans do.  

Well there's a major difference between trading A tier prospects and/or picks for high end players and teams asking for top tier returns on marginal players.

Top 4 RDs aren't exactly easy to acquire from other teams. They either are old, often injured, or covered in warts if not all of the above. 

Goalies are literally a roulette table outside the few elites that aren't for sale anyway. Our best hope would be for Nashville to fall apart and be open to moving Saros whom would give a legitimate target worth higher level assets as he under contract for an additional year.

As for forward, the only interesting name floating around on the trade market is Garland from Vancouver but he's a bit overpaid and would be yet another small speedy guy.  

Good for him? He's scored on Jake Allen and an old Fleury.

We've played two Vezina candidates/winners.

I agree. If we are good: full credit Adams

If we are bad: Adams couldn’t have done any better 

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They did, but the point is they got better as the season progressed.  

They started the season against the top 2 goalies in the NHL and they looked much better tonight.  I expect better results soon. 

It’s a good point 

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The short version is the Sabres are not playing good enough. I'm glad they have 2 days off because I think that will help. Also, having 1 line showing the rest up is good, internal competition. 

The bold is assuredly not good, but the rest is well-said

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

The Coyotes were asking for a first and Matt Savoie in exchange initially, after Buffalo agreed to the same terms that Arizona got from the Sens, they took Ottawa’s Offer as they figured their First would be higher and they were right. (This was reported by Craig Morgan) 

I like Chychrun as a player, His number one problem is availability. He has played a full season once and that was 56 games in the Covid shorten season. He averages 53 games played in an 82 game season and he would not have been available for the playoffs last year. 
 

Had the trade gone through Zach Benson isn’t a Sabre. 

 

Much rather have Benson and Savoie.   We need another NHL ready defender but a big, strong, stay at home type is more of a need than a player like Chychrun. 

[nfreeman]

5 hours ago, BearWithME said:

I've been watching the Sabres for less than a year, and have missed many games--and I agree with you completely.

I see a team out there that looks quicker than most teams they play, passes cleaner, and creates more chaos in front of the opposing teams net.

I've been a Bills fan since Jimbo started running the k-gun offense, so I've seen my share of disastrous Buffalo teams with more hype than hope, but this Sabres team doesn't strike me as such. I tuned in last winter after the Bills broke my heart for the millionth time vs Cincy in the playoffs, and was instantly blown away by the speed and effort put forth by this hockey team. 

I completely understand that there are fans here that have been watching for a long time and are as jaded about this team ending their drought as I was about the Bills ever ending theirs, and I sympathize with them completely, but last night I watched the Sabres outplay the Islanders for 60 minutes. Yes, they lost--over an 82 game season, that will happen. But there is no way this team won't make the playoffs if they play like that every night--luck evens out, teams even out, and this will click for Buf sooner rather than later.

Good stuff and welcome.  Keep it coming!

 

Separately:  they played much better and with much more intensity last night than in game 1.  The top line had a number of chances.  Those will start to go in.

Greenway-Mitts-Benson is a good, effective line.  Greenway looks reborn compared to last season.

Cozens' line is struggling.  I'm inclined to put more blame on Cozens than on VO, but I wouldn't be disappointed to see Krebsie moved up to that line in place of VO as others have suggested.

If they keep bringing the intensity like they did last night I think they will be fine.

[mjd1001]

11 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Cozens' line is struggling.  I'm inclined to put more blame on Cozens than on VO

 

As good or as bad as you think VO is...when you sign Cozens to the extension you did, you can't have him disappear because one of his wingers isn't optimal.  

He's not a superstar getting paid $14m, but for $7m+ (and we want to think that is a bargain), you need to expect Cozens to be able to carry lesser teammates, not be brought down by them.

[sabremike]

13 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As good or as bad as you think VO is...when you sign Cozens to the extension you did, you can't have him disappear because one of his wingers isn't optimal.  

He's not a superstar getting paid $14m, but for $7m+ (and we want to think that is a bargain), you need to expect Cozens to be able to carry lesser teammates, not be brought down by them.

VO isn't just "bad", he is a boat anchor who sucks down any line he plays on. There are very few players in the league who could carry a guy who is that bad.

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, sabremike said:

VO isn't just "bad", he is a boat anchor who sucks down any line he plays on. There are very few players in the league who could carry a guy who is that bad.

I just don't see that. 

I see someone who isn't a good two way player. I see someone who isn't that effective at winning board battles and is not tenacious on the forecheck. BUT, I rarely anymore see him make obvious errors where he causes goals against.  I rarely see him not hustling in the offensive zone to prevent linemates chances (at least in the offensive zone).

He's not a good two way player, I openly admit that. But a boat anchor that sucks down any line he plays on?  Again, I'm not saying he is good, but you just don't see him make obvious mistakes that cost the team goals over and over and over, and he does put in some effort on the 'right' side of the blue line.

My 'time killing' hobby regarding the Sabres is to watch almost all the goals allowed over the past year or two and see who made the mistake(s) that caused them. I don't often notice him being worse than anyone everyone else. Again, VO is not good... but he is not the turnover machine/zero effort player that some on this board make him out to be.

Edited October 15, 2023 by mjd1001

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I agree. If we are good: full credit Adams

If we are bad: Adams couldn’t have done any better 

I wouldn’t go as far as say he is without any blame but this idea he’s not even trying anything feels ridiculous to believe.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

As good or as bad as you think VO is...when you sign Cozens to the extension you did, you can't have him disappear because one of his wingers isn't optimal.  

He's not a superstar getting paid $14m, but for $7m+ (and we want to think that is a bargain), you need to expect Cozens to be able to carry lesser teammates, not be brought down by them.

Just like he did last season carrying two rookies and playing with numerous line combos, plus PP and PK - and still scoring 31 goals at 21 years of age.  

Cozens is among the least of my worries right now.  

 

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I wouldn’t go as far as say he is without any blame but this idea he’s not even trying anything feels ridiculous to believe.

He’s trying very hard, and his strategy has been successfully implemented, and maintained

whether it’s objectively successful relative to the league remains to be seen

[thewookie1]

54 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I just don't see that. 

I see someone who isn't a good two way player. I see someone who isn't that effective at winning board battles and is not tenacious on the forecheck. BUT, I rarely anymore see him make obvious errors where he causes goals against.  I rarely see him not hustling in the offensive zone to prevent linemates chances (at least in the offensive zone).

He's not a good two way player, I openly admit that. But a boat anchor that sucks down any line he plays on?  Again, I'm not saying he is good, but you just don't see him make obvious mistakes that cost the team goals over and over and over, and he does put in some effort on the 'right' side of the blue line.

My 'time killing' hobby regarding the Sabres is to watch almost all the goals allowed over the past year or two and see who made the mistake(s) that caused them. I don't often notice him being worse than anyone everyone else. Again, VO is not good... but he is not the turnover machine/zero effort player that some on this board make him out to be.

I see him as a guy who gives an effort but rarely does more than the minimum in regards to helping the offense or defense. Too often he’ll dump it in and just stop or try to make an ill advised pass through four guys.

Why he’s an anchor is not due to purely effort or skill but that he is equivalent to a cherry picker. He goes to places he can one time the puck and then just effectively waits for his line mates to do the rest.

Essentially his play allows defenders to ignore him somewhat and double team Cozens/Mitts last year.

[Brawndo]

58 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I just don't see that. 

I see someone who isn't a good two way player. I see someone who isn't that effective at winning board battles and is not tenacious on the forecheck. BUT, I rarely anymore see him make obvious errors where he causes goals against.  I rarely see him not hustling in the offensive zone to prevent linemates chances (at least in the offensive zone).

He's not a good two way player, I openly admit that. But a boat anchor that sucks down any line he plays on?  Again, I'm not saying he is good, but you just don't see him make obvious mistakes that cost the team goals over and over and over, and he does put in some effort on the 'right' side of the blue line.

My 'time killing' hobby regarding the Sabres is to watch almost all the goals allowed over the past year or two and see who made the mistake(s) that caused them. I don't often notice him being worse than anyone everyone else. Again, VO is not good... but he is not the turnover machine/zero effort player that some on this board make him out to be.

VO not being able to be successful in carrying the puck out of the defensive zone, forecheck or win board battles is what leads to extended defensive zone time when he is on the ice.  Extended defensive zone time leads to more scoring chances. Players such as Cozens are more likely to chase the play in an attempt to compensate for VO’s short comings often leading to him being out of position on goals.  This is why VO sinks every line he is on 
 

The analytics from last season showed how much worse Cozens was with VO last year and how important Quinn is. 
This is why signing Thomas Tatar to a one year 3-4 million dollar deal would have been beneficial. 

This is where the eye test and analytics separate, a player maybe hustling all over the ice, but not actually doing anything that has a positive effect for His Team. Michael Frolik was the poster child for this. 

 

[Thorny]

Re: Tage Thompson 

Last season, Tage had 12 streaks of 2 games or more where he didn’t register a goal 

Tage was goal-less in 44 of 78 games played: 56%. The majority of Sabres hockey games, Thompson did not score. He finished 6th overall for goals

this is sorta just how goal scorers do and how math does 

in a broader sense it’s why McDavid doesn’t win the cup

build a great team!

Edited October 15, 2023 by Thorny