The three Adams threads are annoying and we can have a discussion about him in one thread.

[sabills]

https://xkcd.com/927/

[Weave]

Or all the threads.  All the choices are legit.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

It is?

Probably so. I believe that Levi is going to be the primary goalie with UPL and Comrie competing to be the backup. Odds are that UPL will win the competition between them. As you well know I have felt for a long time that the GM was not going to make a significant move to address the position. Usually before a trade is made there are rumors or rumblings about a targeted player. I haven't heard a whisper yet about a goalie the Sabres are interested in. Have you? I just think that Levi's performance in his end of season stint influenced how the GM viewed the position for the next season. 

The bigger issue for me is better team defense. As has been stated before: We shall see. 

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I have little faith in Comrie or UPL.

I had little in most of Ryan Miller’s backups, or Dom’s either.

I’ve been saying this for a year now: Devon Levi will be a star. 

If it happens this year, all of this becomes moot.

If we are grading on a pass/fail basis? Probably 

Like playoffs are playoffs, there’s not going to be any lamenting from me if so, they’ve proven how difficult it is for this franchise to do it, it’s definitely a beggars can’t be choosy situation if they get in. But if we make it on the back of Levi and the backup still sucks, it’s still an unaddressed hole on the roster and that particular area doesn’t look favourable for the GM. It’s not a QB1/backup deal. Both goalie spots play, and play a lot.

The negatives will just be less interesting and more few and far between if we’re a playoff team. The good will be well outweighing the poor. I just wouldn’t go so far as to say moot. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You vowed to be the first expansion team to win a Cup.

I don't understand the slow roll thinking. It's not a predictable straight line at a 45 degree angle.

No reason the Sabres couldn't make a run next spring.

I'll say it again... It's sports! You gotta live it! Or love it

I don’t necessarily agree with the slow roll, deliberate pace.  But Adam’s feels that is needed to build for “sustained” success.  He is not going to tie up money on rentals or trade top prospects for rentals.  The early Sabres teams did not have to manage a salary cap or fee agency. 
 

I think just making the playoffs will be a challenge for this team.  Winning a round or two in the playoffs is a whole other story.  It could happen though, I won’t rule it out.  
 

Florida won the Presidents trophy and got bounced, then squeaked in and made it to the finals.  Boston set regular season records and lost in round one.  You never know. 

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If we are grading on a pass/fail basis? Probably 

Like playoffs are playoffs, there’s not going to be any lamenting from me if so, they’ve proven how difficult it is for this franchise to do it, it’s definitely a beggars can’t be choosy situation if they get in. But if we make it on the back of Levi and the backup still sucks, it’s still an unaddressed hole on the roster and that particular area doesn’t look favourable for the GM. It’s not a QB1/backup deal. Both goalie spots play, and play a lot.

The negatives will just be less interesting and more few and far between if we’re a playoff team. The good will be well outweighing the poor. I just wouldn’t go so far as to say moot. 

I'm of a mind that the difference between the better of Comrie/UPL and most of the other backups they will have to match (Johansson, DeSmith, Reimer, Woll, Nedelkjovic, Forsberg, Quick, Petersen...) is not particularly substantial.

But it is certainly a drop below Varlamov and Knight and Swayman, so you're right, it matters.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm of a mind that the difference between the better of Comrie/UPL and most of the other backups they will have to match (Johansson, DeSmith, Reimer, Woll, Nedelkjovic, Forsberg, Quick, Petersen...) is not particularly substantial.

But it is certainly a drop below Varlamov and Knight and Swayman, so you're right, it matters.

I think it’s huge. I think their goals saved above expected numbers were putrid last season, like ~ 60th place or something. (Which theoretically isn’t a stat that improves with better team D) Maybe even lower tbh. They aren’t poor starters, they were also poor backups 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think it’s huge. I think their goals saved above expected numbers were putrid last season, like ~ 60th place or something. (Which theoretically isn’t a stat that improves with better team D) Maybe even lower tbh. They aren’t poor starters, they were also poor backups 

Ranked 87th and 92 lol total ass 

https://moneypuck.com/goalies.htm

It’s such an gimme area for easy upgrade that we continually pass on, or fail at

- - - 

Look at Anderson’s numbers. They KNEW he’d be way better, that’s why they brought him back. Even though they knew he’d be super limited. That they knew it and didn’t pay for better is one of the biggest indicators that my theory Adams draws hard line evaluations could be true

Edited August 7, 2023 by Thorny

[dudacek]

This is an interesting exercise:

1 Ullmark Samsonov Vaselivskiy Bobrovsky Levi Korpisalo Husso Montembeault

2 Swayman Woll Johansson Stolarz Luukkonen Forsberg Reimer Allen

3 Bussi Murray* Alnefelt Knight* Comrie Sogaard Lyon DeSmith

4 Dipietro ???? Tomkins Guzda Tokarski Mandolese Cossa Primeau

[Thorny]

Who’s Bussi Murray

[Thorny]

I understand it’s two people but im going to pretend it’s the best ever nhl name instead 

[Zamboni]

Oh c’mon @Eleven, you know better than to complain about this! There are very few catchall threads.

I mean if you wanted to discuss Tage Thompson, it would have to be a summer discussion or off-season thread.

then if you wanted to discuss Tage Thompson after Sept 24th,  you would need to make a regular season Tage Thompson thread.

then if Tage Thompson gets injured, you would need to make a injury discussion thread.

then if he was out for a couple weeks and came back, you would have to make a … Tage Thompson gets inserted back into the lineup where does everybody else shuffle to? thread.

then if Tage Thompson and his wife were expecting a kid, you would have to make a  thread about that.

then if you wanted to discuss Tage Thompson in prior seasons compared to this season, you would have to make a thread about that.

then if you wanted to discuss Tage Thompson and whether or not he is a true number one center in the NHL, you would have to make a thread about that.

then if …

and that goes for all the players, and coaches. So having three or four or seven threads about KA is quite usual.

😬

[tom webster]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Curious about what the standing ask and offer is for Gibson, or if they’ve even made an offer on Hellebuyck.

I think we just saw in San Jose shows what happens when a big contract is forcing his way out and the team feels the prudent thing to do is comply.

Both those guys have definitely reached the “want out” stage and both come with tickets that have to depress their market and/or price.

I think you can include Demko, Saros and Markstrom as guys they got to the outline of an offer stage.

It really comes down to one question. At what point do you give away more then you want because you need one piece. I understand the hesitancy to part with a top prospect but is it fair to your team and fans for you to hold onto a guy who might not be a significant contributor for three years rather then acquire that last piece. I’m sure Dallas did not want to give up Iginla but do they win the cup without that trade!

[tom webster]

4 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I believe you have alluded that players have told Kevyn that they feel they are ready and want a move that shows he believes it. If he stands pat do you think that will lead to some frustration in the room?

All you have to do is read countless stories about how players appreciated when their general manager made that move to put them over the top to understand how frustrated players will be if their season goes south because of lack of upgrade. Not one player that worked their ass off to get to the NHL wants to hear about how it’s all for the greater good. 
 

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I think it’s huge. I think their goals saved above expected numbers were putrid last season, like ~ 60th place or something. (Which theoretically isn’t a stat that improves with better team D) Maybe even lower tbh. They aren’t poor starters, they were also poor backups 

I remember 80s

Should've checked page 2 whoops

Edited August 7, 2023 by Randall Flagg

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I think you can include Demko, Saros and Markstrom as guys they got to the outline of an offer stage.

It really comes down to one question. At what point do you give away more then you want because you need one piece. I understand the hesitancy to part with a top prospect but is it fair to your team and fans for you to hold onto a guy who might not be a significant contributor for three years rather then acquire that last piece. I’m sure Dallas did not want to give up Iginla but do they win the cup without that trade!

IMHO it comes down to which top prospect for which goalie.  Are you giving up 2 of Savoie, Benson, Kulich, JJP or Quinn for Hart, Markstrom, Demko, Saros, 1 year of Helle or any of the other goalies that were allegedly available?  I am not, and I think frankly only Saros gets me to part with even 1 of them.

[tom webster]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

IMHO it comes down to which top prospect for which goalie.  Are you giving up 2 of Savoie, Benson, Kulich, JJP or Quinn for Hart, Markstrom, Demko, Saros, 1 year of Helle or any of the other goalies that were allegedly available?  I am not, and I think frankly only Saros gets me to part with even 1 of them.

I don’t think Quinn and Benson are even in the discussion and I do not think it would require 2 of the other 3. I’m not sure it would require any of the five. 

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I don’t think Quinn and Benson are even in the discussion and I do not think it would require 2 of the other 3. I’m not sure it would require any of the five. 

i always have to default of the most ever given up for a goalie being pick #9 and that was for a young but proven goalie expected to be your franchise #1 for years..

Quinn was pick 8 and has justified it so far. Savoie was pick 9 and held value. Some think Benson and Kulich are better than Savoie and Peterka is at a similar level.

I don' think any of them should be necessary to get any goalie, particularly one with a big contract, or the expectations of a big contract.

[sabresparaavida]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

i always have to default of the most ever given up for a goalie being pick #9 and that was for a young but proven goalie expected to be your franchise #1 for years..

Quinn was pick 8 and has justified it so far. Savoie was pick 9 and held value. Some think Benson and Kulich are better than Savoie and Peterka is at a similar level.

I don' think any of them should be necessary to get any goalie, particularly one with a big contract, or the expectations of a big contract.

Not only that, but it was a deal that the team trading for the goalie lost by all accounts. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Ultimately KA’s evaluation comes down to has KA done enough to get the Sabres into the playoffs?  Here is the Athletic’s answer.  https://theathletic.com/4755331/2023/08/07/sabres-playoff-roadmap-drought/

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Ultimately KA’s evaluation comes down to has KA done enough to get the Sabres into the playoffs?  Here is the Athletic’s answer.  https://theathletic.com/4755331/2023/08/07/sabres-playoff-roadmap-drought/

Ultimately KA’s evaluation comes down to DID he get them into the playoffs

[PASabreFan]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ultimately KA’s evaluation comes down to DID he get them into the playoffs

And that's why I say that if the Sabres miss the playoffs, there won't be much static from the fans. There will always be reasons they missed despite KA's heroic efforts.

[Night Train]

 I "might" ignore all the local astrologists and view the actual play of the team before boasting or playing taps. 

The only shortage I could agree on is a backup Goalie but some of the names mentioned did nothing for me.  Maybe a camp trade with all the extra bodies on D.

 Improvement with backchecking, faceoffs, penalty killing etc. That  "might" move me. 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How about waiving them both and making Tokarski the backup?  I think he is the best of the 3 barely.

Still am of the opinion that Tokarski was brought in to be the 3rd goalie should they not be able to upgrade the backup position and the loser of the internal competition gets claimed on waivers.  Have way more faith in him than in Subban.

But if Tokarski is the regular backup, there will be a book on him and he will get exposed.  But filling in for a handful of games, he should be fine - just like he was when called into desperation duty in the past.

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How about waiving them both and making Tokarski the backup?  I think he is the best of the 3 barely.

Still am of the opinion that Tokarski was brought in to be the 3rd goalie should they not be able to upgrade the backup position and the loser of the internal competition gets claimed on waivers.  Have way more faith in him than in Subban.

But if Tokarski is the regular backup, there will be a book on him and he will get exposed.  But filling in for a handful of games, he should be fine - just like he was when called into desperation duty in the past.

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

I have little faith in Comrie or UPL.

I had little in most of Ryan Miller’s backups, or Dom’s either.

I’ve been saying this for a year now: Devon Levi will be a star. 

If it happens this year, all of this becomes moot.

He very well could be another Miller.  He absolutely has 'it.' and he's going to be very entertaining to watch for a LONG time.  But Miller was bawling his eyes out after getting lit up by Detroit.

IF Levi pans out this season, the backup situation becomes less important but they're still relying on Comrie &/or UPL for 32 or so games.  It doesn't become moot until point 100 is in the books.