The three Adams threads are annoying and we can have a discussion about him in one thread.

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Seriously, he's had three seasons and nearly four off-seasons to straighten out the goaltending situation.  That's his job.  Other GMs seem to have managed.  If Levi doesn't work out, Adams has to go.

What good would getting a goalie have done with the roster we had before last season? I mean, unless you wanted to ruin his love for the game, as well.

[SwampD]

I’m pretty sure that both sides of thing can agree that this is the make or break year. No playoffs, you gotta go.

[SwampD]

I’m pretty sure that both sides of thing can agree that this is the make or break year. No playoffs, you gotta go.

[mjd1001]

12 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I’m pretty sure that both sides of thing can agree that this is the make or break year. No playoffs, you gotta go.

Actually I don't agree.

Maybe, MAYBE if the team takes a major step back (without injuries), and we find out there is some behind the scenes stuff going on where some players or coaches want to leave because they don't like Adams AND he makes a bad trade or two during the year...then yes.  But simply no playoffs? Nope, not me.  I like what he is doing. I LIKE the slow but steady build (I think that is the way this team should be built). Yes, I want the playoffs, but the east is competitive.  If they miss by a couple points I'm not going to get rid of him simply because of 'no playoffs'.  Before I would even think of that, tell me who he will be replaced with and why that person would be better.

[Eleven]

26 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What good would getting a goalie have done with the roster we had before last season? I mean, unless you wanted to ruin his love for the game, as well.

Well, there would have been a goalie on the roster last season then, right?  It's not like he assembled the entire team on Sept. 1, 2022.

[Zamboni]

It’s early March, The team has a great record. They look awesome. They are going to make the playoffs no doubt. Only injury is skinner who has been out for a couple weeks and won’t return until the end of March.

Then … Dahlin goes down with an injury that takes him out for the season. Next game, Tuch goes down with an injury. He’ll be out for a few weeks. Next game it’s noticeable TNT isn’t playing like he used to and looks to be playing thru an injury. The goaltending duo starts to slip in the next few weeks. They miss the playoffs by a couple points. 
 

Fire KA? Fire DG?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

It’s early March, The team has a great record. They look awesome. They are going to make the playoffs no doubt. Only injury is skinner who has been out for a couple weeks and won’t return until the end of March.

Then … Dahlin goes down with an injury that takes him out for the season. Next game, Tuch goes down with an injury. He’ll be out for a few weeks. Next game it’s noticeable TNT isn’t playing like he used to and looks to be playing thru an injury. The goaltending duo starts to slip in the next few weeks. They miss the playoffs by a couple points. 
 

Fire KA? Fire DG?

No.  Some things are out of his control.  Namely injuries and the grind of a long season.  The only thing on your list that could have been impacted by something KA did was the faltering G tandem, but even that seemed to be fine until key injuries.

[Norcal]

I like Adams but im going to take a stab at a theory.

The one thing I'd say Adams has been guilty of is being afraid to pull the trigger on any trade that is a little risky for Buffalo (the star goalie or trading a first round pick)

He's afraid to take a shot because then he'll be tied to that player and their performance and should they fail, he could be out of a job.

I saw it reported the other day about another GM, Jarmo Kekäläinen in Columbus.

He's been way more active and been in on big names across the league and now this season he really put his neck out, trading for several defenseman and signing Babdick. 

Should that fail, the speculation is as early as this season, JKGM could be looking for a new job. 

Once Adams pulls the trigger on a major goaltender or declares the team ready to compete, he's on the clock.

Right now, he's the toast of the town.

 

[Pimlach]

42 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Actually I don't agree.

Maybe, MAYBE if the team takes a major step back (without injuries), and we find out there is some behind the scenes stuff going on where some players or coaches want to leave because they don't like Adams AND he makes a bad trade or two during the year...then yes.  But simply no playoffs? Nope, not me.  I like what he is doing. I LIKE the slow but steady build (I think that is the way this team should be built). Yes, I want the playoffs, but the east is competitive.  If they miss by a couple points I'm not going to get rid of him simply because of 'no playoffs'.  Before I would even think of that, tell me who he will be replaced with and why that person would be better.

This is my take.  He should have expectations to make the playoffs, it’s the next step.  BUT -  no blanket statements about playoffs or out.  I simply don’t think Pegula will find someone better.   Too much turnover happened in the Pegula past.  I don’t trust him to find a better guy.  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

What good would getting a goalie have done with the roster we had before last season? I mean, unless you wanted to ruin his love for the game, as well.

You can argue that you can build from back to front.   A goalie would have helped win a few more games.  Tokarski and Dell to replace Linus was not great GM’ing. 

[matter2003]

14 hours ago, dudacek said:

I am skeptical that Eric Johnston and Conor Clifton are enough to fix the defence and I really hope that both Adams and I are right about Devon Levi. I certainly would have liked to see him acquire a better insurance policy in net and a more certain top 4 defenceman.

I also think Adams has done a tremendous job fixing the culture, installing hope for the franchise, building a cohesive hockey department, and accumulating a fine collection of young talent, and that the Sabres are on the verge of being successful, but I guess we need another thread for that.

 

So a guy that is good enough to start 78 games as a 2nd pair Dman on the best regular season team of all time isn't good enough for us?

 

Now I've heard it all.

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

I’m pretty sure that both sides of thing can agree that this is the make or break year. No playoffs, you gotta go.

You won't get that agreement. If you get it, it won't be honored next March.

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Norcal said:

I like Adams but im going to take a stab at a theory.

The one thing I'd say Adams has been guilty of is being afraid to pull the trigger on any trade that is a little risky for Buffalo (the star goalie or trading a first round pick)

He's afraid to take a shot because then he'll be tied to that player and their performance and should they fail, he could be out of a job.

I saw it reported the other day about another GM, Jarmo Kekäläinen in Columbus.

He's been way more active and been in on big names across the league and now this season he really put his neck out, trading for several defenseman and signing Babdick. 

Should that fail, the speculation is as early as this season, JKGM could be looking for a new job. 

Once Adams pulls the trigger on a major goaltender or declares the team ready to compete, he's on the clock.

Right now, he's the toast of the town.

 

POTY. It's human nature. He knows he's lucky to be a GM and he sees he's fallen softly into a lovely meadow of tall grass and wildflowers. He's got runway and he's gonn use it. Before I throw in another metaphor, yes I'm sure he also believes what he's doing is justifiable and Dudacek's fantasy lineup in 2027 could be good.

[bunomatic]

I’m thrilled with the direction of the team but when you’re basically standing one and goal you do whats necessary to get over the line. We are that close to the dance. I’m not talking about mortgaging the future. We have one of if not the deepest prospect pools in the league. Get us over the damned line K.A.

[Norcal]

I love the direction the team has taken since Adams came to the helm. 

The pace of the rebuild is debatable imo.

There's no question the Sabres are better off today than they were under previous regimes.

The next step is playoff success.

If what Adams has built can sustain some level of playoff success this season and build towards contention in the coming seasons then he'll prove worthy of sticking around a few more years to oversee that. 

 

[dudacek]

58 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

So a guy that is good enough to start 78 games as a 2nd pair Dman on the best regular season team of all time isn't good enough for us?

Is that really what I wrote?

I like Clifton and I think he improves the team. 

I don’t think he’s the reliable 3/4 we needed.

[Pimlach]

57 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You won't get that agreement. If you get it, it won't be honored next March.

You won’t get agreement from me that KA gets fired if they miss the playoffs this season.  Mostly because he is doing a good job thus far and he doesn’t control all the external forces the team could face, and partly because I’m afraid of the next move TP might make.  It could be another poor one which could eventually ruins the progress to date.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Seriously, he's had three seasons and nearly four off-seasons to straighten out the goaltending situation.  That's his job.  Other GMs seem to have managed.  If Levi doesn't work out, Adams has to go.

I'm not there, yet.  Despite my original misgivings about hiring a GM with no experience, KA has done a credible job in most areas.  That said, his goaltending strategy, since Ullmark walked, is mindboggling in its ineptitude.  I also don't like the fact that it also took two full seasons to finally invest in the defense.  

I do agree that his seat might get very warm if the team misses the playoffs again this season especially if the goaltending is again not up to snuff.

Edited August 6, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[atoq]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Seriously, he's had three seasons and nearly four off-seasons to straighten out the goaltending situation.  That's his job.  Other GMs seem to have managed.  If Levi doesn't work out, Adams has to go.

I agree with this take. He's been neglecting the position since he started the job 3 years ago with Ullmark and vision-impaired Hutton on the roster. Not only has he not strengthened the position in the short-term, he let the best option we had walk for absolutely nothing, after the club spent years developing the player (within the division no less) That's just poor asset management, whatever you think about Ullmark or his Vezina. Get the player locked up or find another solution.

I'm excited about Levi's future with the club (almost more than any other prospect), and hope he defies past trends with rookie goalies, but this position is still the biggest doubt going into the season.

Also, the exaggerated topics obviously don't represent what most people think who are critical of recent goaltending decisions. A GM can make good moves, like Adams certainly has, but still neglect key aspects that limit the overall success of the club. Darcy, Murray and Botteril all made some good moves, but made some serious mistakes in specific areas too (playoff toughness, culture/character, finding a good coach, respectively). 

 

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm not there, yet.  Despite my original misgivings about hiring a GM with no experience, KA has done a credible job in most areas.  That said, his goaltending strategy, since Ullmark walked, is mindboggling in its ineptitude.  I also don't like the fact that it also took two full seasons to finally invest in the defense.  

I do agree that his seat might get very warm if the team misses the playoffs again this season especially if the goaltending is again not up to snuff.

`We will know by December 15 about the goaltending.  We will know by March 15 about the playoffs.  If EITHER one is a miss, he must go.  And I'm sensitive to the comments above that Pegula hasn't exactly hit the mark on hiring GMs in the past.  Those comments are correct.  But just as Pegula demands a lot out of his employees, I demand a lot out of the Sabres.  That means a competent GM.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Eleven

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Eleven said:

`We will know by December 15 about the goaltending.  We will know by March 15 about the playoffs.  If EITHER one is a miss, he must go.  And I'm sensitive to the comments above that Pegula hasn't exactly hit the mark on hiring GMs in the past.  Those comments are correct.  But just as Pegula demands a lot out of his employees, I demand a lot out of the Sabres.  That means a competent GM.

You are beginning to sound like me.  Are you ok?

I had lunch the other day with @freester, and we debated adding Hellebuyck.  I said I was willing to go as high as Rosen and next year's first for Hellebuyck and a 2nd.  He said that was way too much for a one-year rental.  While generally, I agree with Freester that ii is an overpay, I think our window is now open and KA should finally step up and make the big deal to ensure we get to the playoff this year without putting everything on Levi's shoulders.  I'm also confident that losing Rosen won't make a bit of a difference in our pipeline.

Edited August 6, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You are beginning to sound like me.  Are you ok?

I had lunch the other day with @freester, and we debated adding Hellebuyck.  I said I was willing to go as high as Rosen and next year's first for Hellebuyck and a 2nd.  He said that was way too much for a one-year rental.  While generally, I agree with Freester that is an overpay.  I think our window is now open and KA should finally step up and make the big deal to ensure we get to the playoff this year without putting everything on Levi's shoulders.  I'm also confident that losing Rosen won't make a bit of a difference in our pipeline.

My man, I've been complaining about Adams and the goaltending situation for years!

[Randall Flagg]

15 hours ago, SwampD said:

Yep. This is my last visit to this thread.

We get it. Goaltending. Even though he has drafted/picked up/traded for several, including one of the best prospects in the league at the position. All to no avail, yet.

But because he didn't go to the magical, mythical land where all the spare starting veteran goalies grow and pluck one off the branch, he is a failure.

It is not just sad, dumb luck that the Sabres' goaltending is bottom 5 in the league every year of Adams' tenure

It's not "woe is me, i tried, there just weren't any options"

He failed that key position each year, and if he fails it again this year and we miss the playoffs because of it, requiring a FIFTH season to attempt to make the playoffs for his FIRST time, he deserves to be removed with contempt 

[atoq]

Besides goaltending, my biggest (yet pettiest) complaint is the "players that want to be here" slogan, which is such a cop-out coming from the person whose literal job it is to convince the right players they should want to be in buffalo, either through financial offerings or by selling the culture/region/future of the team.

Obviously you can't convince everyone, but can we stop repeating this as an organizational motto, especially now that the Eichel-era transition is over? What does this even mean going forward? 

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I feel like you are struggling with the concept of these threads. OTOH, you've given voice to ambivalence with a low hum of perduring disgruntlement in an intelligent manner. OTOH, you've failed to grasp the polar-dichotomy of point-counterpoint represented by two diverse threads of this particular nature. In reality, you want to occupy an ambiguous quantum state between two universal polarities, which places you high on the Heisenberg scale with a relatively strong undercurrent of Schrödinger syndrome.

Or I just read the title of one thread without reading the other.

You're bored this summer aren't you?