The Stanley Cup Playoffs 2023: Second Round GDT.

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

My feeling is the Sabres, Kevyn specifically, leveraged the neck injury to move Eichel out.  Even if Eichel was "right" (whatever that means in what might have been a very complex situation) I can still see why Adams wanted to move on from a core that to date had not brought any success.  He felt more comfortable leveraging key pieces of that core in their prime to bring in the kinds of players he wanted.  He attempted to flip the frustrated Tankfruit for good vibes, and spread the talent more deeply through the lineup.  I'd say he was successful.

What was?

He was the one who asked out after the 19-20 season, which led to the disastrous attempts that offseason to make things work. In fact if he didn't ask out I think they would've been far more agreeable to take the risk and allow that surgery.

[Second Line Center]

I couldn’t care less about Eichel.  
 

Have been rooting against Vegas from day 1 of his arrival there but their winning doesn’t bother me in the least.  
 

 

The story of this playoffs to me is the Oilers.  
 

How come McDavid and Draisaitl haven’t won 1 Conference Final game at this point in their careers - and only appearing in one?  
 

I expect the Coach to be fired and then to be extremely active in the goalie market.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by Second Line Center

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

I couldn’t care less about Eichel.  
 

Have been rooting against Vegas from day 1 of his arrival there but their winning doesn’t bother me in the least.  
 

 

The story of this playoffs to me is the Oilers.  
 

How come McDavid and Draisaitl haven’t won 1 Conference Final game at this point in their careers - and only appearing in one?  
 

I expect the Coach to be fired and then to be extremely active in the goalie market.  

They're not going to fire the coach yet--he's only been there for a little over a year and he's the guy who did get them to the conference final.

They definitely should be looking for a goalie.  

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes it is a long way of saying just that.  The advantage an expansion team has is they are going to have a huge list of those late 20-year-old guys avaible to pick from that existing teams don't.  If they do things the right way, they can be playoff-competitive a lot quicker than a team rebuilding from nothing.

Sabres didn't "rebuild from nothing" though. When they came into the league we already had all of the core players (and then we added Tuch by trading Eichel). 

If you look at their inaugural roster   https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/07/21/nhl-expansion-draft-seattle-kraken-reveal-inaugural-roster/

Would you have traded everybody we had for that roster? I don't think you would, so the idea that it was easier for them than us is one I totally disagree with. 

 

Anyway, leave it there so we don't annoy the on topic crowd. Game 7 will be fun. I hope the Kraken win, but I don't think they will. Shutting down Dallas' one big line will be key. Grubauer has to be outstanding as well. Game 7's though, anything can happen. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I feel like all these games between Dallas and Seattle have been one sided but each game tilts to the opposite side. I don't recall them being overly close, just a lot of goals coming rapidly. Curious to see if Home ice has any advantage in this last game of round 2 

[nucci]

41 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Sabres didn't "rebuild from nothing" though. When they came into the league we already had all of the core players (and then we added Tuch by trading Eichel). 

If you look at their inaugural roster   https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/07/21/nhl-expansion-draft-seattle-kraken-reveal-inaugural-roster/

Would you have traded everybody we had for that roster? I don't think you would, so the idea that it was easier for them than us is one I totally disagree with. 

 

Anyway, leave it there so we don't annoy the on topic crowd. Game 7 will be fun. I hope the Kraken win, but I don't think they will. Shutting down Dallas' one big line will be key. Grubauer has to be outstanding as well. Game 7's though, anything can happen. 

anything can happen in the other games too, not just game 7

[klos1963]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

My feeling is the Sabres, Kevyn specifically, leveraged the neck injury to move Eichel out.  Even if Eichel was "right" (whatever that means in what might have been a very complex situation) I can still see why Adams wanted to move on from a core that to date had not brought any success.  He felt more comfortable leveraging key pieces of that core in their prime to bring in the kinds of players he wanted.  He attempted to flip the frustrated Tankfruit for good vibes, and spread the talent more deeply through the lineup.  I'd say he was successful.

What was?

I think Eichel wanted out before the injury,  but not 100% certain.

Jury still out on whether this was successful or not.  Certainly looks promising.  Tuch is great,  the rest of the players TBD.  Vegas obviously did very well. 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Brett Hull has been wiping Sabres faces in it since then.

I actually met and talked to Brett Hull about a year after that.  He was kind of sheepish describing the goal, says he wished it was a highlight worthy goal.  But the officials called it good and he couldn't take it back.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

If Eichel knew his buddy wouldn't be able to bolt in a year (or 2, depending on whether we're talking about the 1st time Eichel said 'if you're rebuilding, maybe you should trade me' or after the debacle post-Covid season), would he have been more receptive to the changes that were coming?

I personally feel that whether or not Reino would remain with the Sabres had no bearing on Eichel's departure.

12 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

think Eichel wanted out before the injury,  but not 100% certain.

Possible, but my point was that perhaps his "bad attitude" including his looking to the rafters all the time could have been influenced by his injury.

[Porous Five Hole]

15 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I actually met and talked to Brett Hull about a year after that.  He was kind of sheepish describing the goal, says he wished it was a highlight worthy goal.  But the officials called it good and he couldn't take it back.

That’s cool.  

He was having a little “fun” with Sabres fans on twitter in the past. 
Quote: “In 2011, he switched his avatar to a photograph of him holding a replica Stanley Cup and wearing a "Brett Hull is a Cheater" shirt.”

Then there was the “Happy halloween to all my friends in Buffalo!" tweet with his pumpkin carving of the No Goal sequence.

I am not trying to change your mind, but try to explain why people outside of your region might not agree.

 

[Marvin]

27 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I think Eichel wanted out before the injury,  but not 100% certain.

Jury still out on whether this was successful or not.  Certainly looks promising.  Tuch is great,  the rest of the players TBD.  Vegas obviously did very well. 

He asked out the previous summer, but Pegula and Adams helped bring in guys whom they thought would get the team into the playoffs.  On paper, the acquisitions made sense.  On the ice,...

[Doohickie]

1 minute ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I am not trying to change your mind, but try to explain why people outside of your region might not agree.

I'm aware of that.  I think there's the public persona and the personal view.  In general he has a bigger-than life personality and I think his "fun" is little more than that in his mind, while in Buffalo most people still view him as the villain.

When I first asked him about the The Goal he kind of winced and said, "You know, I still catch ***** for that.  I'll be lining up for a faceoff and the other player will say, 'That wasn't a goal, Hull.'  But what am I supposed to do?  I can't take it back."

I met him deplaning at DFW Airport and talked to him at baggage claim.  I asked if he would sign his boarding card for my nephew who played youth hockey at the time.  So he signed it:  "To Matthew, Good luck in hockey!  -Brett Hull"

The look on his face when I told him it give it to my nephew when I went to visit family up in Buffalo that summer was priceless.  😛

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, Marvin said:

He asked out the previous summer, but Pegula and Adams helped bring in guys whom they thought would get the team into the playoffs.  On paper, the acquisitions made sense.  On the ice,...

I think Kevyn was ready to move on from Eichel immediately, but humored Pegula and Krueger and made an honest effort to bring in pieces that would quickly make the team successful.  Like you said, on paper it looked good and I remember the optimism on this forum when the acquisitions were made.  The chemistry in the room even before Hall and Staal and the others got here was already toxic at that point I suspect, and when Eichel's injuries took him out of the lineup and hampered him when he was there doomed the short term retooling.

Kevyn's failure to give Reino a long term deal was the first sign that he wanted a full-blown rebuild.  It was delayed by a year while they tried a quick turn but then I think TPegs gave Kevyn his blessing to go forward with his original plan.

It delayed things by not only the first year he was here, but also into the second year because the Eichel trade took so long to play out, and even after that, it was months until Tuch could play.  He was acquiring pieces but couldn't really put them together on the ice right away.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Doohickie

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, sabremike said:

He was the one who asked out after the 19-20 season, which led to the disastrous attempts that offseason to make things work. In fact if he didn't ask out I think they would've been far more agreeable to take the risk and allow that surgery.

If Adams knew Jack was good with doing a rebuild, I think that’s possible.

Adams wanted a rebuild. Jack didn’t. Eichel told KA this, KA made the choice to betray his initial desires and “go for it” in that disastrous, shortened year, and right or wrong, or somewhere in the middle, KA took those results as proof he was correct the first time. I think BOTH parties framed it around the injury at that point, refusing to budge on it, but the conflict was powered in truth by their again opposite stances on course forward, ON ICE. That’s my view. 

I don’t know that Adams was correct that we needed that full reset, but that’s a secondary point to the fact that: he’s made his choice, work. As far as we’ve seen so far. His return for Eichel was successful and the track he’s put the team on seems to be paying dividends so far. He was right. 

Eichel was right, too. 30s in hockey is old. He’s in his mid/late 20s. Jack wanted to be playing in the playoffs, NOW, regardless of how promising the future might be had he signed up for a rebuild. How can he be declared wrong? He’s a leading Conn Smythe candidate heading to the final 4. He was right: this IS where Jack Eichel should be right now. In your heart of hearts everyone knows this is true. This is what a late 20s player of his magnitude should be doing, what Jack should be playing for, right now. I wish the same for Dahlin when he’s his age. 

3 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I think Eichel wanted out before the injury,  but not 100% certain.

Jury still out on whether this was successful or not.  Certainly looks promising.  Tuch is great,  the rest of the players TBD.  Vegas obviously did very well. 

Win win

Edited May 15, 2023 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Win win

In a way both the Reinhart and Eichel trades worked out great for both sides

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

In a way both the Reinhart and Eichel trades worked out great for both sides

Need to wait and see our guys on the Reinhart side with some NHL games under their belts but it’s looking like this very well could be the case, yup 

[klos1963]

3 hours ago, Marvin said:

He asked out the previous summer, but Pegula and Adams helped bring in guys whom they thought would get the team into the playoffs.  On paper, the acquisitions made sense.  On the ice,...

Gotta wonder how well things would have gone if we went right with Granato and skipped over RK.

[Taro T]

52 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

In a way both the Reinhart and Eichel trades worked out great for both sides

They might very well have.  Too early to say for certain on the Sabres side of the Reinhart trade, but it sure does look encouraging at this point.

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Gotta wonder how well things would have gone if we went right with Granato and skipped over RK.

Great question.  We know Granato was available as he came to Buffalo when Krueger did.  Maybe Montour is willing to sign an extension playing the uptempo game that Granato pushes.  If he stays, maybe Ullmark and Reinhart sign long term deals and Eichel is willing to work through the Sabres growth phase.

The team would still need outside leadership brought in at that time (Eichel might someday be captain material, but in hindsight he certainly wasn't at that time) but maybe it could've worked.

The whole thing would've moved a lot of other pieces around.  (They likely don't fall to dead last with getting the prize of Power, but maybe they still will the lottery with much lowered odds of winning.  Tuch doesn't come in a big return for Eichel, but maybe Adams can pry him from Vegas for something much less substantial anyway.  They'd still have Mittelstadt and Cozens to round out the C spine.)

Pretty sure they'd've been able to give this year's Swamp Cats (minus Sam and Montour but probably still without Levi too as he might've played his senior year to get out of the Bobrovsky Knight log jam (oops, guess that's not quite as formidible a tandem as originally thought).  Would be interesting to see how that group would've matched up this round with the Canes.

[Taro T]

And, hadn't thought of this before, but with Edmonton getting eliminated as of June 9 of this year there won't be one single Canadian (or person of any nationality for that matter) that is under 30 who was alive (and on this side of their mother's womb) the last time a Canadian based team won the Stanley Cup.  

It's simple math, but stated that way, it's kind of staggering.

[OverPowerYou]

If the stars beat Seattle, Eichel, and the Caniacs. Sabres fans should forgive them for 99

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I think Eichel wanted out before the injury,  but not 100% certain.

Jury still out on whether this was successful or not.  Certainly looks promising.  Tuch is great,  the rest of the players TBD.  Vegas obviously did very well. 

Eichel wanted out even before he was hurt. And when the KA took over he made it clear that he wanted players on his team who wanted to be here and be part of the rebuild. So the decision to trade Eichel was not a difficult decision for the GM to make. In fact, the GM told the player to stay home and not come back. The issue came down to getting an acceptable return. In my view, he got it. 

As you seem to be pointing out, the Eichel deal worked out well for both teams. And I would also say the same thing about the Reinhart deal. It worked out well for Florida and Buffalo. If Levi becomes our primary goaltender, that deal could turn out to be the most consequential of the deals from trading away our old core. Looking back, if I had the choice of keeping one player who was dealt, it would be Montour. 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

In a way both the Reinhart and Eichel trades worked out great for both sides

So far.  We need to hit big on Levi and Östlund to really benefit and tip the scales. 

[mjd1001]

I don't like Seattle's unis that much, Dallas same thing. BUT, something about the Green Dallas unis vs the Whites on Seattle, it looks pretty nice on the ice.

[Porous Five Hole]

Borgen is having a tough night at a bad time for it.