Is Kevyn Adams doing anything?

[LGR4GM]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What plan?  I have yet to see a proper plan to address the defense or goaltending.  Waiting for Levi isn't a plan.  It's hope and prayer.  Continually trotting out Bryson, Bush and Clague is a failure not a plan.  It's takes guts to be objective and say what your doing isn't working and then take steps to address the issue.  KA has known these issues exist for years and has yet to properly address them.  It's past time for changes to be made.

See, same thing you posted in the what were you wrong about thread. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by LGR4GM

[nucci]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

Why does this take guts?

Doesnt it take more guts to stick to your plan/principles in the face of pressure to do otherwise?

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ba1dc4d9-c31c-434b-b20d-3e70cd981044

[Night Train]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

Objectively, their plan to develop talent in-house has resulted in huge performance jumps from a bunch of key players.

Objectively, they have a boatload of younger players capable of making similar jumps coming up behind them to further advance the team.

Objectively, moving a thoroughly gutted, last-place team into a playoff bubble team in a season and a half represents significant progress.

Objectively, Adams has to look at where the team is and conclude their plan — setting the team up for long-term success through a stable, consistent positive culture and responsible incremental improvement — appears to actually be unfolding on, or possibly ahead of schedule.

  Bullseye.  Of course there is more to do. Before they went on the late season hot streak last March, they were 35 points or more out of a playoff spot and looked like the worst team in hockey. It seemed like yesterday they were lucky to score 2 goals in a game. To me , it looked like a multi year, blow it up complete rebuild with core players to keep being counted on one hand. Impossible to watch any game without disgust. 

  Positive steps are evident. A very important one is they can now score. That's important, last I checked.

  Now work on the D play and goaltending. We all get that and I'm sure KA sees that also. Had to allow some players to show something before making decisions going forward.

 

  They had to rally just to reach 75 points last year.  I certainly didn't expect 95-100 points with this roster. Who did ???   Insanity. Hypercriticism.

[Night Train]

Didn't Adams inherit a mess of a team with an 18 game losing streak ? 

Yeah, now go turn that around fast and make it snappy.  I decree it.  

[Radar]

My only opinion is simply KA is the best GM we've had since Darcy and may prove to better than him as well. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

My only opinion is simply KA is the best GM we've had since Darcy and may prove to better than him as well. 

Agreed.

I full understand those who are tired of waiting for this team to get better, they aren't happy with the lack of moves. I also get there are moves he made or players he has on the roster that people aren't convinced belong here. To some of those people, they aren't convinced he is good at all as a GM.

However I am on the other side.  Of course I want the team to win and to win right now. But unless something unreal drops in his lap, I am 100% ok with him making zero moves and seeing what this team does from now until the end of the year.  I'd love for him to get a #3-4 quality D-man in a trade, but I woudn't force it.

[NAF]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

My only opinion is simply KA is the best GM we've had since Darcy and may prove to better than him as well. 

Darcy traded well but couldn't draft for *****. I'd argue the jury is still out on whether Adams is as good as/a better trader than Darcy, but I think Adams is already looking like a better drafter than Darcy (knock on wood).

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

My only opinion is simply KA is the best GM we've had since Darcy and may prove to better than him as well. 

I recollect when you would post here about how ancient you were and desperate for the team to start getting it together. (It was a shock when I figured out from another post that we are basically the same age. I didn't realize till then how truly old I was . . . )

[Goldseatsaud]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

My only opinion is simply KA is the best GM we've had since Darcy and may prove to better than him as well. 

What is adams competition Murray and Botterill lol

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Night Train said:

Didn't Adams inherit a mess of a team with an 18 game losing streak ? 

Yeah, now go turn that around fast and make it snappy.  I decree it.  

And do it while trading your best (at the time) players.  

[Thorny]

20 hours ago, inkman said:

I was uncomfortable when this was broached the first time.  Okposo told Adams the team didn’t want outsiders to come help, and they wanted to figure it out in their own.  Tons of flawed logic there.  What if they can’t figure it out?  What if they just don’t have the horses?  Trying to rally around the boys is all well and good but if there are glaring needs (there definitely are), these guys will never be able to push them over the top.  

Agree. There’s the aspect of job security, too - obviously asking the current guys if they’d like an outsider skater addition who may take away their playing time represents a conflict of interest. 

So much so that I don’t really buy the concept. Don’t think deferring to your players works as any kind of long term strategy, and I don’t think Adams would be dim enough to think that. More likely he dutifully asks for input in all situations, and is smart enough to realize that when what he determines is the correct course of action lines up with what the players are saying, it makes a good quote 

[Thorny]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Kind of sad that people are willing to accept a mediocre product when we could be some much more with a couple of reasonable changes.  

I love your spirit as it rings true in my soul, but I think it’s a matter of you just being one year too soon. They clearly clearly earmarked this for “development year” coming in - nothing we have seen from Kevyn Adams suggests he’s anything if not deliberate - I don’t think we see a shift in season. 
 

But next year is wildly different. Baseline expectation is playoffs - or we aren’t progressing enough. At that stage, when the results are priority, I’d side with you on needing to make the necessary supplementation moves 

[dudacek]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I love your spirit as it rings true in my soul, but I think it’s a matter of you just being one year too soon. They clearly clearly earmarked this for “development year” coming in - nothing we have seen from Kevyn Adams suggests he’s anything if not deliberate - I don’t think we see a shift in season. 
 

But next year is wildly different. Baseline expectation is playoffs - or we aren’t progressing enough. At that stage, when the results are priority, I’d side with you on needing to make the necessary supplementation moves 

GA is smart guy and I totally get why he feels the way he does.

But it's been pretty clear since the summer of 2021 that Adams has a plan and that plan is focused on putting his young players through a crucible of learning by doing. It does not involve adding mercenaries in a desperate bid to make the playoffs this year.

He's like the dad who's packed up the family in the car, mapped out a route, and is driving cross-country to Disneyland.

Encouraging him to take shortcuts and repeatedly asking "Are we there yet?" isn't going to change a thing.

Like you, I am very curious to see where he goes once we finally have the Magic Kingdom in sight and it's time to take the car off the freeway and into the park. I feel like I have no idea how close Adams thinks we are.

Edited February 23, 2023 by dudacek

[Archie Lee]

I’m in for the “plan” and the long-haul. That said, it will be a bit disappointing if we don’t make any move of consequence at the deadline. There are 3 timeframes in a calendar year where NHL teams make acquisitions. Yes, trades are made at other times of the year, but in and around the draft, free agency day, and the deadline are the periods where trades typically occur. Anytime you go through one of those periods and haven’t made a move to improve the team (short or long term, depending on your time line) is a potential lost opportunity. I don’t want anything rash, but I would like to see a move that signals the plan is not to solely rely on the development of our young NHL players and prospects. 

[Brawndo]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

GA is smart guy and I totally get why he feels the way he does.

But it's been pretty clear since the summer of 2021 that Adams has a plan and that plan is focused on putting his young players through a crucible of learning by doing. It does not involve adding mercenaries in a desperate bid to make the playoffs this year.

He's like the dad who's packed up the family in the car, mapped out a route, and is driving cross-country to Disneyland.

Encouraging him to take shortcuts and repeatedly asking "Are we there yet?" isn't going to change a thing.

Like you, I am very curious to see where he goes once we finally have the Magic Kingdom in sight and it's time to take the car off the freeway and into the park. I feel like I have no idea how close Adams thinks we are.

I think if Adams is going to make a blockbuster trade involving top prospects and draft picks, he is going to do so when there are 31 other teams to make a deal with around the draft. There will be teams in cap trouble who will need too make moves and the Sabres will be in a position to do so as their core should be settled. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

I think if Adams is going to make a blockbuster trade involving top prospects and draft picks, he is going to do so when there are 31 other teams to make a deal with around the draft. There will be teams in cap trouble who will need too make moves and the Sabres will be in a position to do so as their core should be settled. 

To my mind, this was the primary focus of this season. Identify them and lock them up, then fill in the missing pieces.

The Samuelsson Cozens and Tage contracts confirmed they are considered core. You know Dahlin and Power will join them, but for how long, and at what price? You've got 3 more years of Tuch and 4 more of Skinner.

How many other "core" pieces do we need? How many of them are already here? How much more time does he need in order to answer those questions? Who is on the market? What's the price? How long will it take to close a deal? Are those discussions underway?

These are the "Adams" things I'm most interested in. Upgrading Clague/Bryson — while necessary in my view — is mostly inconsequential to the big picture.

[Thorny]

29 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I think if Adams is going to make a blockbuster trade involving top prospects and draft picks, he is going to do so when there are 31 other teams to make a deal with around the draft. There will be teams in cap trouble who will need too make moves and the Sabres will be in a position to do so as their core should be settled. 

This is good, but honestly it’s not even that level, for me. I don’t need to see a blockbuster trade, merely the fact he is open to any available opportunity is enough for me- he’s earned a ton of leeway re: thorny via: his demonstrably good personal decisions thus far. meaning as long as we know it’s not a stringent adherence to outside additions on principle (and it doesn’t seem to be, from what we’ve heard) I’m happy to toss up any specific “inaction” to “that’s his evaluation”. Part of this is because I don’t think the way the results have been tracking allow me to make a math-based argument for why we NEED that outside addition, when if the goal is playoffs next season, we seem to be tracking for it based on year over year improvement. 

We’ve had some factors work in our favour this year like notably health, career years from our unquestioned two best players (did I mention health), that next jump into the playoffs is probably a bit harder so including those factors in context, I think this offseason, though I mentioned our process simply continuing would have us on the right track, we need some stronger additions than the Lyubushkins. and Goalie...I don’t think we can do UPL/Comrie. 

But long story short, again, it’s their  mindset: when *the* priority changes from “development” to making the playoffs next season, the likelihood of Adams weighing the idea of giving up a draft pick or two, or prospect, to bring in that DEPTH addition mid season a good idea, should (and I’d argue, must) go up. 

Playing with cash next year. To do that you need currency. Currency requires flow - which means less stringency to pieces beyond core, and especially pieces who’a value is primarily found in the future (draft picks), where, with an established core, said future is actually best maximized often by cashing those future-based picks in. 
 

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

I think if Adams is going to make a blockbuster trade involving top prospects and draft picks, he is going to do so when there are 31 other teams to make a deal with around the draft. There will be teams in cap trouble who will need too make moves and the Sabres will be in a position to do so as their core should be settled. 

If I were a betting man I'd toss a marker down that he does no such thing.

We ended up with a golden opportunity to make the playoffs that might not happen next season (or the one after that, or the one after that, or the one...) and KA is "Ah, who cares?". Do you think Florida is this bad next season? Do you think the Wings and Sens won't be better? Do you think there is a hope in hell any of the top 3 fall off anytime soon? When opportunity knocks you should answer the door.

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, sabremike said:

If I were a betting man I'd toss a marker down that he does no such thing.

We ended up with a golden opportunity to make the playoffs that might not happen next season (or the one after that, or the one after that, or the one...) and KA is "Ah, who cares?". Do you think Florida is this bad next season? Do you think the Wings and Sens won't be better? Do you think there is a hope in hell any of the top 3 fall off anytime soon? When opportunity knocks you should answer the door.

I don’t agree with the characterization that KA is “who cares”, but I do agree that we may be looking at a missed opportunity.  Player development occurs in the playoffs too.

And as Ive said multiple times recently, the future is not guaranteed. The only known is now.

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, sabremike said:

If I were a betting man I'd toss a marker down that he does no such thing.

We ended up with a golden opportunity to make the playoffs that might not happen next season (or the one after that, or the one after that, or the one...) and KA is "Ah, who cares?". Do you think Florida is this bad next season? Do you think the Wings and Sens won't be better? Do you think there is a hope in hell any of the top 3 fall off anytime soon? When opportunity knocks you should answer the door.

 

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don’t agree with the characterization that KA is “who cares”, but I do agree that we may be looking at a missed opportunity.  Player development occurs in the playoffs too.

And as Ive said multiple times recently, the future is not guaranteed. The only known is now.

These posts suppose the ultimate goal is “make the playoffs and see what happens.”

The ultimate goal is being in contention for an extended period.

The two are not mutually exclusive - not even close - but where they don’t overlap, Adams is going to firmly stick with the latter.

Which doesn’t mean he’s not interested in making moves, it just means they won’t be of the Ryan O’Reilly for futures variety.

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

These posts suppose the ultimate goal is “make the playoffs and see what happens.”

The ultimate goal is being in contention for an extended period.

The two are not mutually exclusive - not even close - but where they don’t overlap, Adams is going to firmly stick with the latter.

Which doesn’t mean he’s not interested in making moves, it just means they won’t be of the Ryan O’Reilly for futures variety.

THIS.

So much this.

Whether we agree with it or not.  And whether it is costing a CHANCE to make the playoffs THIS year.  This is where we are at.

Am leaning toward expecting a 3rd pairing type D being brought in for a 4th rounder or a middling prospect.  But don't expect any more of the future capital to be spent on this season.

IF a Timo Meier type deal makes sense, we'll see that big trade, but really not expecting something like that until NEXT offseason.  That'll be when they've identified their TRUE core pieces (and they won't necessarily be what people expect) and gaps and when cap management becomes a thing and Adams has to prove adept at ALL aspects of GMing.

[Thorny]

I’d prefer the goal to be perennial playoff team, personally, but what do I know 

I also think they’ve identified their core and that’s why the focus is changing into next season. 

part of the reason I’m so fully on board is I’m convinced we won’t see the intimation of “development year” next season. My stance will change if that’s the case, I just don’t expect to hear anything like what we heard coming into this season 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Thorny

[TheAud]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

He's like the dad who's packed up the family in the car, mapped out a route, and is driving cross-country to Disneyland.

Encouraging him to take shortcuts and repeatedly asking "Are we there yet?" isn't going to change a thing.

Like you, I am very curious to see where he goes once we finally have the Magic Kingdom in sight and it's time to take the car off the freeway and into the park. I feel like I have no idea how close Adams thinks we are.

The bigger question is whether he is smart enough to park by the door, or park by the exit to make it easier to get out at the end of the day. I'm also hoping the park is open. 

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The other issues with the inhouse only plan are that there are certain positions we don't have ready and good enough prospects in (such as goalie and defense) and by the time some of these prospects reach the NHL, we'll have wasted the primes of guys like Skinner, VO, TNT and Tuch.  I am not a fan of accelerating a rebuild before the core is established, but we have a core - Skinner, TNT, Tuch, Cozens, Dahlin, Mule, and Power, and the offense is flourishing.  It's time to give the core the support it needs.

Remember even if a GM is great at drafting, he is going to average a max of 3 players a year.  That means it will take about 9 (with development time) years to build a team solely through the draft.    

We're in full agreement on this. I also think there is enough character in the core to unite the team around long term and there is no reason to think that'll change. Guys outside the core like Krebs also show leadership and desire and that sort of thing is infectious and sets a standard for others coming in. We didn't have that before but now we definitely do. 

They didn't make the moves this year. That was intentional. In my mind I still kind of believe they didn't really want to win too much YET with this big rich Bedard plus draft coming up and Cozens and others caught them by surprise a little so we did better than they planned despite the lack of moves. We just have to hope they get it and they will realize that next season is time to go for it and anything less than playoffs will be failure. So to reach that goal, it'll have to include SOME outside moves, signings and/or trades.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, NAF said:

Darcy traded well but couldn't draft for *****. I'd argue the jury is still out on whether Adams is as good as/a better trader than Darcy, but I think Adams is already looking like a better drafter than Darcy (knock on wood).

It's funny but I actually see this totally in reverse. I'd say so far Adams has proven he's a good trader but the jury is still out on his drafting. He positively robbed Philly on the Risto trade. If Levi is a good NHL goalie he did exceptionally well on the Reinhart deal (with a player you knew wouldn't sign here) and with Tuch being Tuch and now Krebs coming along the Eichel deal seems outstanding as well. It's just a question of how well the picks are used.

When you look at the team, the core is all JBot (except for Tuch). Adams players show promise, but none of them are impact players yet. Evaluating his drafts will depend on who he picked compared to who he didn't pick as well.