Jerry Forton: Sabres Head of Amateur Scouting

[LGR4GM]

I know clips have been posted but really the entire interview is a fascinating look into what the Sabres do on the scouting end. They talk about the analytics and why they took guys where they do etc... It is really a great watch and Forton comes across very well.

My biggest takeaway is a line about how they view smaller players and the skating to size ratio. Basically the smaller you are the better you have to skate and it sounds like that inverses to the bigger you are the better you have to skate. He mentions that with Savoie and Östlund they are exceptionally good skaters and the Kulich is also right up there.

One last thing he talks about analytics and how they work in the process. That is worth the listen.

 

 

[nfreeman]

Forton gets emotional at the end of the interview (about the 18-minute mark) when asked about KA.  It's a pretty interesting and poignant moment, likely driven in part by Kim Pegula's recent health issues as well.  In any case, it's clear that Forton thinks very highly of KA, and at least in Forton's view, that the franchise was a fairly dysfunctional organization before KA took over.

Here's Mike Harrington's description:

Quote

Scouting director Jerry Forton said his belief in Adams has quickly grown over the last 25 months, and Forton briefly broke down when speaking with reporters about how Adams is shepherding the organization through a difficult time, both on the ice and off.

There was a lot behind Forton's emotions. Foremost, of course, is Kim Pegula's health situation. Forton joined the organization in 2013 and is a longtime confidante of Terry Pegula, whose wife has been battling undisclosed issues for the last month.

Another branch of the story is the Forton and other members of the organization were made as outcasts under Jason Botterill and his team of assistant GMs. Adams has been the unifying force the Sabres have needed.

 

[Digger]

Like many, I've been preparing for the NHL draft year after year, researching prospects and trying to project where they might help the Sabres down the road.  It's fun and is one of the highlights of the year especially when your team misses the playoffs.  There's a couple of players that were on my wish list for this year that did not fall exactly into the spot where we were picking (happens every year) but I can't complain about any of the picks.  But what I would like to say is that I believe the Sabres have taken a nice step in drafting players past the first round that have great value and potential for the past 2 years. 

Time will tell but they really look like they know what they are doing now in the draft. 

Great job by Jerry Forton and the scouting and analytics staff.  It should be a good development camp and fun to watch these players develop.

[DHawerchuk10]

This interview is pretty telling, especially the emotions at the end.  It bolsters my belief we finally are turning a corner.  Their view on selecting players is very logical, which is refreshing to see.

[nfreeman]

More on Forton's interview and emotions from the Athletic:

 

Quote

 

Forton couldn’t hold back tears, and right then it was obvious the impact Adams has had on this organization. Over the past month, Sabres owner Kim Pegula has been dealing with an undisclosed health issue. She and Terry Pegula were not in attendance at the NHL Draft because of it. Adams has helped keep everyone in the organization focused throughout a trying month. And thinking about how Adams navigated that, culminating in a draft with 11 picks, including three in the first round, was enough to make Forton choke up.

...

You can nitpick moves Adams has made with the roster. Skepticism about another rebuild is fair given the organization’s recent history. But a reaction like Forton’s happens because Adams is changing the way people feel when they come to work every day. The Sabres’ building hasn’t always been a fun place to work over the last decade, but Adams is making it so. That matters, because it trickles down to the locker room.

The sentiment around the league is that players in Buffalo enjoy playing there. Yes, they will still have instances of players not wanting to come to Buffalo, like Matt Murray who used his no-trade clause to block a move. They’ll need to win to cure that problem. Where Adams has succeeded, though, is finding players and staffers who want to be part of what the Sabres are building. The team generated positive results down the stretch of the season and has remained methodical in building this offseason. Will it lead to this rebuild generating more wins than past failed efforts? That remains to be seen, but there is a much different feeling about this team than there has been in quite a while.

 

 

[Doohickie]

25 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

there is a much different feeling about this team than there has been in quite a while.

I think that's evident to most of us on Sabrespace

[Flashsabre]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I know clips have been posted but really the entire interview is a fascinating look into what the Sabres do on the scouting end. They talk about the analytics and why they took guys where they do etc... It is really a great watch and Forton comes across very well.

My biggest takeaway is a line about how they view smaller players and the skating to size ratio. Basically the smaller you are the better you have to skate and it sounds like that inverses to the bigger you are the better you have to skate. He mentions that with Savoie and Östlund they are exceptionally good skaters and the Kulich is also right up there.

One last thing he talks about analytics and how they work in the process. That is worth the listen.

 

 

I think we all think we know but we really have no idea just how dysfunctional the Sabres were under Murray and Botts. Forton has done interviews where he said none of the area scouts would talk to each other and no one knew about the players the others were focusing on. Under Ralph we saw him alienate Taylor and the Amerks. The mess of the last decade has been earned by awful hires and leadership.

I think we are on the right track. It truly sounds like everyone is working together and communicating on all levels. Analytics and scouting working hand in hand is terrific. When you can marry the two you get the best results. The prospect pool is stocked and now developing them is the key. Adams is serious about patience and doing this right and I like it. Hopefully this leads to 10-15 years of playoff runs to come.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Flashsabre

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Forton gets emotional at the end of the interview (about the 18-minute mark) when asked about KA.  It's a pretty interesting and poignant moment, likely driven in part by Kim Pegula's recent health issues as well.  In any case, it's clear that Forton thinks very highly of KA, and at least in Forton's view, that the franchise was a fairly dysfunctional organization before KA took over.

Here's Mike Harrington's description:

 

Says a lot about Adams but perhaps more revelatory is what it says about the previous recent regimes. 

There was that story about Botterill being able to stay on as GM, if he made the necessary cuts. Perhaps some of those cuts were to guys Botterill was prioritizing over guys like Forton. 

[HoosierDaddy]

The interesting thing is that neither Murray nor Botterill was a bad hire at the time. Both had earned their promotion by working in the front offices of successful organisations. In fact, both were a lot more qualified than KA in paper. But neither could do the management part of the GM job. People skills matter.

[Malazan]

On 7/9/2022 at 7:49 PM, HoosierDaddy said:

The interesting thing is that neither Murray nor Botterill was a bad hire at the time. Both had earned their promotion by working in the front offices of successful organisations. In fact, both were a lot more qualified than KA in paper. But neither could do the management part of the GM job. People skills matter.

I've been confused about this narrative being pushed by certain individuals that the Pegulas wanted a lackey when Murray and Botterill were up and coming guys that were 'well respected' and considered good choices from around the NHL. They hired the guys that 'they were supposed to hire' and it wasn't working so they went with someone they knew and at the very least, he seems to make the people in the organization not hate working for them from players to the other staff. There still seems to be a lot of anger with some about KA getting the job though. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Malazan

[JohnC]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:49 PM, HoosierDaddy said:

The interesting thing is that neither Murray nor Botterill was a bad hire at the time. Both had earned their promotion by working in the front offices of successful organisations. In fact, both were a lot more qualified than KA in paper. But neither could do the management part of the GM job. People skills matter.

Your observation about the prior GMs having the requisite hockey experience but not the people/management skills for the position is very perceptive. The one area where KA doesn't get the credit he deserves is the impressive way he has in a short timeframe rebuilt the organization with a quality staff, starting with Karmonos. All the parts of the hockey operation from the scouting staff, analytical department and coaching staffs throughout the system are working in unison. Every segment of the operation from high and low gives input and are listened to. There is a collaboration and cohesion that was lacking with the prior regimes. 

[Doohickie]

On 7/9/2022 at 7:49 PM, HoosierDaddy said:

The interesting thing is that neither Murray nor Botterill was a bad hire at the time. Both had earned their promotion by working in the front offices of successful organisations. In fact, both were a lot more qualified than KA in paper. But neither could do the management part of the GM job. People skills matter.

...and that Kevyn was roundly panned as an awful hire.

[PASabreFan]

15 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

...and that Kevyn was roundly panned as an awful hire.

...and at this point there's no tangible evidence he's also not awful. At some point the bell will toll for him too. Whether it's a joyful arrival in port or an urgent call to evacuate steerage remains to be seen.

Damn. I'm good.

Seriously, this franchise has done nothing yet with Adams at the helm.

[Doohickie]

59 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Your observation about the prior GMs having the requisite hockey experience but not the people/management skills for the position is very perceptive. The one area where KA doesn't get the credit he deserves is the impressive way he has in a short timeframe rebuilt the organization with a quality staff, starting with Karmonos. All the parts of the hockey operation from the scouting staff, analytical department and coaching staffs throughout the system are working in unison. Every segment of the operation from high and low gives input and are listened to. There is a collaboration and cohesion that was lacking with the prior regimes. 

Also of note is that despite their hockey experience, they weren't particularly adept at making good hockey moves or building a functional team.

I think the single biggest attribute that Kevyn has that Murray and JBot didn't is trust.  I think there were commands from management and reports back up the chain under the first two, but little actual communication of ideas.  I really think that Kevyn laid out his vision and did what he had to in order to get buy-in.  (From what I see, Kevyn did this on Day One but was overruled and respectfully followed the Krueger Keep Jack Happy tack, then at the Boca meeting prior to RK's firing laid out his plan again and got the blessing of the ownership to move forward with it.)  I think that with prior GMs there was nominal communication about transactions, etc., with ownership but it was primarily lip service with little exchange of insight or consensus back and forth.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Doohickie

[matter2003]

I'm interested in why they selected C 3 picks in a row...was it truly best player available on their board or did they specifically target the position?

Seems like Savoie was a no brainer pick, but why the other 2 on top of him?

[Buffalonill]

6 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I'm interested in why they selected C 3 picks in a row...was it truly best player available on their board or did they specifically target the position?

Seems like Savoie was a no brainer pick, but why the other 2 on top of him?

We don't have any centers in the system. 

That's why 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

I'm interested in why they selected C 3 picks in a row...was it truly best player available on their board or did they specifically target the position?

Seems like Savoie was a no brainer pick, but why the other 2 on top of him?

Have to believe it was BPA.  Forton said all 3 were well in the top 1/2 of their 1st round draft board.  And the goalie had a 1st round grade as well.  (Though need & a dearth of other viable candidates temper the validity of that particular ranking IMHO.)

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

We don't have any centers in the system. 

That's why 

No they didn't down in the prospect pool, but they have 4 young guys on the big squad that can play C, 5 if Asplund is included.  So, yes, it's a need but 1 would've addressed the need. 

It's like saying they have no LHD in the system.  They have 3 young studs in Buffalo & the adequate young guy in Bryson.  Even if Johnson & Pilut don't arrive it isn't as pressing a need as G was and RHD still is at the prospect level.

[Buffalonill]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No they didn't down in the prospect pool, but they have 4 young guys on the big squad that can play C, 5 if Asplund is included.  So, yes, it's a need but 1 would've addressed the need. 

It's like saying they have no LHD in the system.  They have 3 young studs in Buffalo & the adequate young guy in Bryson.  Even if Johnson & Pilut don't arrive it isn't as pressing a need as G was and RHD still is at the prospect level.

And all still question marks all of them could end up wings they needed insurance imo

[dudacek]

56 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I'm interested in why they selected C 3 picks in a row...was it truly best player available on their board or did they specifically target the position?

Seems like Savoie was a no brainer pick, but why the other 2 on top of him?

If you believe in consensus charts, Kulich was as much of a no-brainer as Savoie.

Östlund's composite ranking was about 5 slots lower than where he was picked, but I read in multiple places that some teams had him ranked much higher.

I also think after three drafts, we've seen the Sabres have a type: talent+compete trumps all.

I have no problem believing the team had al three in their top 15.

Edited July 11, 2022 by dudacek

[sabresparaavida]

55 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I'm interested in why they selected C 3 picks in a row...was it truly best player available on their board or did they specifically target the position?

Seems like Savoie was a no brainer pick, but why the other 2 on top of him?

Savoie was a no brainer, and to me looks like a guy that could end up at C, or he could end up as a RW. Östlund I think either ends up at C or doesn’t really stick. Kulich looks like a guy that can play anywhere in the lineup, if he develops well, he could be a top 6 winger or a 2nd line center. Or he could play further down the lineup in whatever role you want from him. I think they were all BPA according to their board, and at least Savoie and Kulich were among the BPA according to the media. 

[IKnowPhysics]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:49 PM, HoosierDaddy said:

The interesting thing is that neither Murray nor Botterill was a bad hire at the time. Both had earned their promotion by working in the front offices of successful organisations. In fact, both were a lot more qualified than KA in paper. But neither could do the management part of the GM job. People skills matter.

Agreed.  When he was hired, KA didn't seem to have the same draft prowess or player management experience as TM or JB, but it was repeated over and over that he was a high-character individual who could maybe elevate the off ice culture of the organization top-down.

When a professional like Jerry Forton, who's been in the off-ice part of the game for 26 years and with the Sabres for nine years, gets that emotional on camera regarding the organization KA has been able to build, it screams volumes about how inspired and motivated these professionals are and how they've bought in to that culture and KA's leadership.  They're ready to go to war to see Buffalo win a championship and they believe he can lead them there.

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Agreed.  When he was hired, KA didn't seem to have the same draft prowess or player management experience as TM or JB, but it was repeated over and over that he was a high-character individual who could maybe elevate the off ice culture of the organization top-down.

When a professional like Jerry Forton, who's been in the off-ice part of the game for 26 years and with the Sabres for nine years, gets that emotional on camera regarding the organization KA has been able to build, it screams volumes about how inspired and motivated these professionals are and how they've bought in to that culture and KA's leadership.  They're ready to go to war to see Buffalo win a championship and they believe he can lead them there.

When you have been diminished by someone and then elevated by someone else, you become determined to repay that exhibition of confidence in you. Good people skills and a talent to manage people is something you have or don't. KA has it. A good leader who earns the trust of his workers gets paid in spades by better performances. 

[LGR4GM]

Listening to him talk about the goalie, impo, it's clear the scouting side pushed for that pick. I think it will be a wasted pick but it's the only flaw in that draft.

[Carmel Corn]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Listening to him talk about the goalie, impo, it's clear the scouting side pushed for that pick. I think it will be a wasted pick but it's the only flaw in that draft.

Are you thinking the player himself is a wasted pick (will never amount to anything) or rather when that player was selected (too early)?