Can we win a Cup without a Superstar forward?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think most people here believe this team is on the cusp of being a playoff contender, especially with better goaltending.  

I also think most people here like the depth we are building at forward and look forward to truly running 4 quality limes night in and night out. During these regular season, a team that can roll 4 lines has a distinct advantage. 

However, can this team become a true Cup contender without at least one Superstar forward?

When I look at this forward group I see Skinner, Tuch, Thompson, Mitts, Krebs and Quinn as potential 60-70 pts players.  Cozens 50-60 and possibly better.  That’s great depth, but is it good enough?  I watch our OT play and PP and worry that we lack a dynamic forward to help those specialty areas thrive.  
 

[Buffalonill]

Need a number 1 center 

[Flashsabre]

Ask the Oilers and Leafs how having multiple superstar forwards has helped them win a Cup.

The Hasek Sabres had a superstar goalie and a lot of depth.

The Co Captains teams had no superstar but a lot of high end talent and depth. Both teams came close.

This team is shaping up to have a lot of talented depth. It will have a superstar dman. Power and Quinn should be stars, one might turn into a superstar.

Superstars are great but a team of talented depth is usually better if the superstar isn’t properly supported.

A quality goalie is the first step.

[Eleven]

44 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I see Skinner, Tuch, Thompson, Mitts, Krebs and Quinn as potential 60-70 pts players.

Two of them are awfully close to that already.  Thompson probably will hit it.  Skinner, it's gonna be tough, but next year, certainly.

[7+6=13]

For this team to be a cup contender, we'll need it to come from the back end.  High end defense and goaltending, with enough on offense and offensive defenseman.  

Might be counterintuitive to the style Donnie likes to play, so will be interesting to see how it develops.

[mjd1001]

Yes, they can.

If you have a superstar D-man....not just a point producer but a guy who can control every aspect of the game when he is on the ice (play good D, move the puck out of your zone, contribute some offense), that can be just as valuable as a superstar forward.  Maybe more so, because that D-man can be on the ice for 4-6 minutes more than a top forward.

If, IF the Sabres have Dahlin turn into that kind of player...and if Owen power eventually turns into that....virtually the entire game the team would have a D-man on the ice that would control the entire back end.  I know it hasn't happened often in the NHL, but I think that can be just as effective of a way to build a team than trying to chase that superstar forward.

[dudacek]

Power and Dahlin would have to be a Neidermayer and Pronger.

That said, @thorny will say I am underrating Briere, but I see potential for our forwards to match that team’s depth and I think that team could have won a cup.

[French Collection]

8 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes, they can.

If you have a superstar D-man....not just a point producer but a guy who can control every aspect of the game when he is on the ice (play good D, move the puck out of your zone, contribute some offense), that can be just as valuable as a superstar forward.  Maybe more so, because that D-man can be on the ice for 4-6 minutes more than a top forward.

If, IF the Sabres have Dahlin turn into that kind of player...and if Owen power eventually turns into that....virtually the entire game the team would have a D-man on the ice that would control the entire back end.  I know it hasn't happened often in the NHL, but I think that can be just as effective of a way to build a team than trying to chase that superstar forward.

If Dahlin and Power develop into #1 Dmen, this team will be difficult to play against. The possession numbers will favour our team. If Mule keeps improving, this defense could be the best I’ve seen since the Avs had Blake, Bourque and Foote.

It will be hard to get to the Habs big 3 level (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe) but you never know. Mule, Johnson or a draft pick could be the next big piece.

[K-9]

We’ve knocked on the door twice without one, so yeah. Came close with a trio of them as well. 

[DarthEbriate]

Absolutely.

A single super star destroyer can be held in check in a series. But all you need are a couple very good forwards playing great during the playoffs. Throw in a hot goalie and you're in business.

Of course... this is assuming none of the Sabres' current forwards are capable of being superstars.

[French Collection]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Power and Dahlin would have to be a Neidermayer and Pronger.

That said, @thorny will say I am underrating Briere, but I see potential for our forwards to match that team’s depth and I think that team could have won a cup.

Good comparable. That duo played almost 30 minutes each. There was a Norris trophy Dman on the ice at all times.

Selanne was the only superstar forward on that Cup winner. Getzlaf and Perry were emerging stars.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

If Power becomes Stevens and Dhalin becomes Potvin and Levi becomes Brodeur and if they have a 40 goal winger and a 90 assist centre the Sabres will win a cup.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

If Power becomes Stevens and Dhalin becomes Potvin and Levi becomes Brodeur and if they have a 40 goal winger and a 90 assist centre the Sabres will win a cup.

Dahlin, not Dhalin

[Curt]

Yes, a cup can be won without a superstar forward.  It’s harder, but 2010-11 Bruins and 2018-19 Blues have done it in the recent past.

[LGR4GM]

You need at least 4 star level players.

.75ppg forward

.5ppg defender

 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think most people here believe this team is on the cusp of being a playoff contender, especially with better goaltending.  

I also think most people here like the depth we are building at forward and look forward to truly running 4 quality limes night in and night out. During these regular season, a team that can roll 4 lines has a distinct advantage. 

However, can this team become a true Cup contender without at least one Superstar forward?

When I look at this forward group I see Skinner, Tuch, Thompson, Mitts, Krebs and Quinn as potential 60-70 pts players.  Cozens 50-60 and possibly better.  That’s great depth, but is it good enough?  I watch our OT play and PP and worry that we lack a dynamic forward to help those specialty areas thrive.  
 

I'll turn it around for you:  The precise reason the Sabres have struggled is that they had one big star (Eichel), a complementary piece (Reino) and a bunch of JAGs.  The talent was too concentrated such that if you shut down, or even slowed down, Eichel, you stopped the Sabres.  We put all our eggs in one basket for too long.  Now we need to spread the opportunity around to each player according to his talent level.  You need every player to contribute.

[Doohickie]

38 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If, IF the Sabres have Dahlin turn into that kind of player...and if Owen power eventually turns into that....

And if Samuelsson continues his growth we could conceivably have very little drop-off even in the third pairing- each pairing having a monster Dman (Dahlin, Power, Muel), and complementary partner (Joki, Bryson, Fitz... or possibly better than that depending on acquisitions).

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

And if Samuelsson continues his growth we could conceivably have very little drop-off even in the third pairing- each pairing having a monster Dman (Dahlin, Power, Muel), and complementary partner (Joki, Bryson, Fitz... or possibly better than that depending on acquisitions).

Woo woo, slow down. Samuelsson is good defensively but there's a drop off.

[Carmel Corn]

I think of the 2018-2019 St. Louis Blues cup-winning team.  I don't recall a superstar forward on that roster.  ROR had a great post-season for sure, but he's not a "super-star" in my definition of the term.   That may not be the only example, but yes I think a team can win without a $10MM+ forward.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I'll turn it around for you:  The precise reason the Sabres have struggled is that they had one big star (Eichel), a complementary piece (Reino) and a bunch of JAGs.  The talent was too concentrated such that if you shut down, or even slowed down, Eichel, you stopped the Sabres.  We put all our eggs in one basket for too long.  Now we need to spread the opportunity around to each player according to his talent level.  You need every player to contribute.

I agree that we are in a much better space because of our depth.  However that doesn't change my feeling that we need at least one dynamic forward to elevate us to a Cup contender.  

[Carmel Corn]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree that we are in a much better space because of our depth.  However that doesn't change my feeling that we need at least one dynamic forward to elevate us to a Cup contender.  

I would contend that BALANCED scoring is more important.  Teams that have had success consistently get 3rd and 4th line scoring in the playoffs.

[jsb]

I'd like to get to the playoffs before thinking/dreaming about a SC. They need to put a warning on that hopium bottle.

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Need a number 1 center 

No you need a #1 GK. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Dahlin, not Dhalin

Thanks, eh !!

[Buffalonill]

39 minutes ago, jsb said:

I'd like to get to the playoffs before thinking/dreaming about a SC. They need to put a warning on that hopium bottle.

No you need a #1 GK. 

You can win with average  goaltending 

[Stads]

Did we think Briere and Drury were superstars?