Can we win a Cup without a Superstar forward?

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I expect him to be a second line forward. I would be disappointed if he doesn't score at least 20 goals next year. I also expect him to be on one of the PP units. 

Your expectations for Quinn aren't high enough. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by LGR4GM

[JohnC]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Your expectations aren't high enough. 

I start slow and then up the ante. As like you I have high expectations for him. An interesting issue is what is the makeup of the line he will be on? I think Mitts would be a good center for him to play with. 

[dudacek]

Cozens with transition game and abrasiveness, Krebs with the passing, Quinn the finisher.

All three pushing the pace, possessing multiple tools, and in possession of top 6 talent.

Elements of pretty special line there in the future.

[PerreaultForever]

Quinn has potential but I'm not sure he's as NHL ready as some think. Kid needs to bulk up more imo.  

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Quinn has potential but I'm not sure he's as NHL ready as some think. Kid needs to bulk up more imo.  

Bulk up?? This isn’t 1978 anymore  

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Quinn has potential but I'm not sure he's as NHL ready as some think. Kid needs to bulk up more imo.  

He does need to get physically stronger. 

He’s also putting up 3 points every 2 games in a league where the competition is as big and tough as the competition in the NHL. If he’s 1/3 as effective in the NHL, he’s still a 40-point scorer.

Im not sure people realize how productive he’s been.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He does need to get physically stronger. 

He’s also putting up 3 points every 2 games in a league where the competition is as big and tough as the competition in the NHL. If he’s 1/3 as effective in the NHL, he’s still a 40-point scorer.

Im not sure people realize how productive he’s been.

An interesting discussion can be made of which of our centers would be most suitable for Quinn? My first inclination is Mitts. 

[Buffalonill]

On jack quinn I'm expecting him to win rookie of the year

Edited April 4, 2022 by Buffalonill

[SwampD]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

I'm expecting him to win rookie of the year

Who?

Hi, ink.

[French Collection]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

An interesting discussion can be made of which of our centers would be most suitable for Quinn? My first inclination is Mitts. 

I am being picky here and I have no clue if analytics back this up but, I have always favoured a left handed C if the trigger man is the RW. 
 

My reasoning is I like the C making forehand passes to a guy like Quinn. I know they move around a lot in the offensive zone and on the rush but the RW will be on the right side for the majority of the time.

I would play him with Mitts and maybe Krebs if he lines up at C.

[calti]

14 hours ago, matter2003 said:

How do you know Jack Quinn won't be one? Looking pretty superstarish in Rochester right now

Now there is a possibility...The rest of the amerks/sabres roster doesnt really have the potential. Dahlin too soft.

[Crusader1969]

2 minutes ago, calti said:

Now there is a possibility...The rest of the amerks/sabres roster doesnt really have the potential. Dahlin too soft.

Tell me you haven’t been watching without saying you haven’t been watching 🤦🏼‍♂️

[Carmel Corn]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Bulk up?? This isn’t 1978 anymore  

Players today are in much better physical condition vs. back in 1978.  That includes being bigger and stronger.  Hell, players in 1978 would pack their 6-packs and cig's on their road trips.  Most all of our young guys can use more strength as their bodies mature.  For ex.,  I could see Cozens as becoming an elite power forward if he could add another 20 lbs.

[Crusader1969]

3 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Players today are in much better physical condition vs. back in 1978.  That includes being bigger and stronger.  Hell, players in 1978 would pack their 6-packs and cig's on their road trips.  Most all of our young guys can use more strength as their bodies mature.  For ex.,  I could see Cozens as becoming an elite power forward if he could add another 20 lbs.

I agree with this.  I think I took the original post as bulking up to play in a violent NHL like it was back in the day.   
that being said , when I watch Quinn I don’t see a skinny kid out there 

[French Collection]

43 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I agree with this.  I think I took the original post as bulking up to play in a violent NHL like it was back in the day.   
that being said , when I watch Quinn I don’t see a skinny kid out there 

Quinn is probably similar to Krebs, in that he will get shoved around in board battles. Once these guys add a few pounds of muscle they won’t be pushovers. An added benefit may be more explosive speed and shots.

It takes years to get legs like Crosby’s but they can gain some strength every year.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Bulk up?? This isn’t 1978 anymore  

Why do people always insist on going to these silly extremes?

Little Hughes got rocked by Lauzon and missed half a season. Remember that? It's still a man's game and lightweights will have a hard time making it through a season or playing in the playoffs without bulking up.

Nobody's saying he has to become huge, but he still has a slight childlike frame imo and that's a problem.

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

He does need to get physically stronger. 

He’s also putting up 3 points every 2 games in a league where the competition is as big and tough as the competition in the NHL. If he’s 1/3 as effective in the NHL, he’s still a 40-point scorer.

Im not sure people realize how productive he’s been.

I'm hearing it, and I'm optimistic, but I also know it doesn't always translate. We shall see. I'm glad we agree on the physically stronger part, that validates my point as you've clearly watched him more than I have.

He bulks up a little, keeps working, and has the right competitive attitude he could be a big part of this team moving forward, but I'm not anointing anybody any more until they play in the blue and gold and bring it. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm hearing it, and I'm optimistic, but I also know it doesn't always translate. We shall see. I'm glad we agree on the physically stronger part, that validates my point as you've clearly watched him more than I have.

He bulks up a little, keeps working, and has the right competitive attitude he could be a big part of this team moving forward, but I'm not anointing anybody any more until they play in the blue and gold and bring it. 

Always good not to anoint anyone until they prove themselves, but I think that part about “not always translating” needs some context.

No player in the past 25 years of Buffalo Sabres system has ever come close to what Jack Quinn is doing in his D2 year in the AHL. None are close in their D3 years.

This is his competition projected over 82 games:

• Jack Quinn D2 55 goals 121 points
• Drew Stafford D3 53 goals 106 points
• Luke Adam D3 42 goals 89 points
• Derek Roy D3 32 goals 82 points
• Jason Pominville D3 42 goals 80 points
• JJ Peterka D2 31 goals 81 points
• Tyler Ennis D2 27 goals 77 points
• Thomas Vanek D2 46 goals 75 points
• Zack Kassian D3 41 goals 71 points
• Mikhail Grigorenko D3 27 goals 69 points
• Casey Mittelstadt D3 21 goals 57 points

I think the point is, he has no comparables. He’s literally ahead of the 2nd best D2 player by nearly 45 points.

I think it should also be said that no Sabre D2 prospect has ever put up close to a point a game in the AHL and failed to become a good NHL player. Even counting players a year older, 6 of the 8 players to pace for even half of what he’s pacing translated into good NHLers.

Edited April 4, 2022 by dudacek

[SDS]

8 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Tell me you haven’t been watching without saying you haven’t been watching 🤦🏼‍♂️

Straight cringe. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Always good not to anoint anyone until they prove themselves, but I think that part about “not always translating” needs some context.

No player in the past 25 years of Buffalo Sabres system has ever come close to what Jack Quinn is doing in his D2 year in the AHL. None are close in their D3 years.

This is his competition projected over 82 games:

• Jack Quinn D2 55 goals 121 points
• Drew Stafford D3 53 goals 106 points
• Luke Adam D3 42 goals 89 points
• Derek Roy D3 32 goals 82 points
• Jason Pominville D3 42 goals 80 points
• JJ Peterka D2 31 goals 81 points
• Tyler Ennis D2 27 goals 77 points
• Thomas Vanek D2 46 goals 75 points
• Zack Kassian D3 41 goals 71 points
• Mikhail Grigorenko D3 27 goals 69 points
• Casey Mittelstadt D3 21 goals 57 points

I think the point is, he has no comparables. He’s literally ahead of the 2nd best D2 player by nearly 45 points.

I think it should also be said that no Sabre D2 prospect has ever put up close to a point a game in the AHL and failed to become a good NHL player. Even counting players a year older, 6 of the 8 players to pace for even half of what he’s pacing translated into good NHLers.

Well we shall see. Let's just hope he's more Vanek or even Pominville and less Stafford. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well we shall see. Let's just hope he's more Vanek or even Pominville and less Stafford. 

Of course. The numbers are hardly infallible.

I just wanted to make it clear to the board that the numbers show someone on an entirely different level than Stafford. They indicate it’s entirely reasonable to expect Vanek - what they actually show is a Stafford floor and a ceiling well in excess of Vanek.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Of course. The numbers are hardly infallible.

I just wanted to make it clear to the board that the numbers show someone on an entirely different level than Stafford. They indicate it’s entirely reasonable to expect Vanek - what they actually show is a Stafford floor and a ceiling well in excess of Vanek.

Not to mention Stafford did that with an entire extra year of development under his belt. D3 v D2 is like the your backyard versus the ocean floor... world's apart.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Of course. The numbers are hardly infallible.

I just wanted to make it clear to the board that the numbers show someone on an entirely different level than Stafford. They indicate it’s entirely reasonable to expect Vanek - what they actually show is a Stafford floor and a ceiling well in excess of Vanek.

Stafford had the talent, he just lacked the will and desire. I thought Mitts might fall into that category but since his return he's played with more effort and I think a lot of the kids we have now have the will and desire and that sort of thing can be infectious and hopefully become the team standard.

[calti]

12 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Tell me you haven’t been watching without saying you haven’t been watching 🤦🏼‍♂️

Dahlin is still soft. Not a superstar. I will believe it when I see it. is he an allstar? sure.of course.

Altho I cant think of the last superstar the sabres have had.    Briere?? borderline....Then we would have to go back to Hasek.

[dudacek]

45 minutes ago, calti said:

Dahlin is still soft. Not a superstar. I will believe it when I see it. is he an allstar? sure.of course.

Altho I cant think of the last superstar the sabres have had.    Briere?? borderline....Then we would have to go back to Hasek.

How are you defining soft?

He’s not scared of getting hit, or shy about dishing it out. He doesn’t back down when it comes to the extra-curriculars like scrums and stick work. He’s winning more board battles than he’s losing and is getting under peoples skins. These things arent measurable, but they are kinda hard to deny by anyone actually watching him play lately.

As far as measurable go, he leads the team in hits and is 2nd in both blocked shots and PIMs.

The only objective criteria by which he can be considered soft is fighting. because he doesn’t fight. Of course only 2 Sabres and maybe 50 NHLers do, so that’s not really much of a relevant stat these days.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by dudacek