Okposo and his contract

[mjd1001]

I'm thinking, at least for this year, Okposo might actually be WORTH his contract (or more.)

For years most of us have said it was a bad contract, and a year or two ago many of us said it was the 2nd worst contract on the team (behind only Skinner) and were desperate for the Sabres to get out of it. I always liked the guy but I had times I wished he would have retired due to injuries.

The way he played the end of last year (taking out his injuries) and how he is playing this year, I don't want to say he is a BARGAIN, but I think he is worth what he is getting paid.

-Hes on a 23 goal, 50+ point pace over 82 games this year. Earth shattering? No. But he is doing that without getting top line minutes or getting top line line-mates to help him produce.  If he was on the top line, I think you could add a few goals and points to that total. Hes also only getting 2nd unit PP time and not even on the pp at all (he is tied for 10th on the team in average ice time on the PP among forwards).  Bottom line is he is getting pretty good production for 2nd/3rd line duty/linemates/ice time on a below average team.

-Despite him being only 10th among forwards in PP ice time, he is 2nd on the team in PP goals (only 1 behind tage) and 2nd in PP points.

-He does play on the PP, he does kill penalties on a regular basis. He scraps to stick up for his teammates. He is 3rd on the team in scoring. His goals come both on the PP and even strength. He can play anywhere effectively from the 4th line to filling in on the first line.

-Everything we hear from him directly, we hear from his teammates, from the coaches, say he is one of the best locker room guys around and a huge leader on this team.

$6 million a year isn't chump change, and with his injuries in the past he didn't always bring much to this team in the past. But right now, I'm happy the Sabres are paying him $6 million for what he is bringing to this team for what it is.

Edited February 26, 2022 by mjd1001

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I think he is worth every penny now and always.  When he was not playing well he was hurt or coached by an idiot.

[dudacek]

Starting to realize how poorly Okposo was miscast as a 4th liner.

Donnie gets a lot of credit for the improvement in the play of Dahlin and Skinner and Thompson, but his role in Kyle’s resurgence is never mentioned.

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Starting to realize how poorly Okposo was miscast as a 4th liner.

Donnie gets a lot of credit for the improvement in the play of Dahlin and Skinner and Thompson, but his role in Kyle’s resurgence is never mentioned.

Agreed he should have been higher up, but even in those years he did produce as a 4th liner.

I remember many games where the Sabres lost a couple years ago where after the game Paul Hamilton (and others) would say the Larsson, Girgs, Okposo 4th line was the best line on the ice and I agreed with them.

In 2018-2019-2020 seasons (where he was primarily a 4th liner) he was still the 5th best scoring forward on this team as mostly a 4th liner and that was WIITH missing games due to injury also. 4th on the team in goals those years, close to being 3rd in goals per game.

Even in those years, on primarily a 4th line he was giving you 15 goals per 82 games on only about 13 minutes of ice time per game. 

So basically, when you stuck him on a 4th line...he still was producing goals in terms of production per 60 (per amount of ice time) at a pretty good rate.  

So as you said, he should have been higher up in the line rotation/ice time....unless that was done intentionally to limit his ice time due to his injuries/injury history at that time.

[Porous Five Hole]

It depends on how you assign worth.
 

I agree he is worth his value in terms of being paid as a top five player on this team. His points are in the top five on the team despite averaging the least minutes per game.
He oozes effort.  
But it is tough to quantify leadership into six million dollars annually. It certainly doesn’t appear contagious. 
 

He’s got 130 NHL players ahead of him in points this season. That doesn’t scream six mil to me, but this team has to spend it somewhere…so why not KO, I guess. 

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Agreed he should have been higher up, but even in those years he did produce as a 4th liner.

I remember many games where the Sabres lost a couple years ago where after the game Paul Hamilton (and others) would say the Larsson, Girgs, Okposo 4th line was the best line on the ice and I agreed with them.

In 2018-2019-2020 seasons (where he was primarily a 4th liner) he was still the 5th best scoring forward on this team as mostly a 4th liner and that was WIITH missing games due to injury also. 4th on the team in goals those years, close to being 3rd in goals per game.

Even in those years, on primarily a 4th line he was giving you 15 goals per 82 games on only about 13 minutes of ice time per game. 

So basically, when you stuck him on a 4th line...he still was producing goals in terms of production per 60 (per amount of ice time) at a pretty good rate.  

So as you said, he should have been higher up in the line rotation/ice time....unless that was done intentionally to limit his ice time due to his injuries/injury history at that time.

I agree the line (which, to be fair, was actually the 3rd line) was often good, but that doesn’t mean Kyle could not have been better utilized.

In his 74 games under Krueger he had 9 goals and 14 assists.

[Porous Five Hole]

My eye test says he is faster and more agile on his feet this season (versus the past two).  
Perhaps a “normal” off-season after  injury plagued back to back years did him a lot of good.  

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I agree the line (which, to be fair, was actually the 3rd line) was often good, but that doesn’t mean Kyle could not have been better utilized.

In his 74 games under Krueger he had 9 goals and 14 assists.

Agree that it was the actual 3rd line, but there's some sort of panache that comes from calling it the 4th line.  Kind of like that "identity" like on the Aisles.  They're called their 4th line but really aren't.

[Weave]

His contract was never an actual problem.  He never prevented us from improving the roster and he always provided benefit to the team whether he wasn’t getting points or not.

Those things matter waaayyyyyy more than Terry’s pocket change.

[JohnC]

He has been the most consistent player on this team. I can't recall a game where he can be criticized for not giving effort on both ends of the ice. And that includes games where the outcome has been determined fairly early. Some of our more talented players have spells in which they have faded and simply gone through the motions. Not him. He is the most honest and honorable player on the roster. HIs value goes beyond contract numbers. I admire him so much. 

[woods-racer]

He is our Mike Grier of old. 

[DarthEbriate]

Okposo and his contract aren't the problem. He was the top UFA RW in 2016 and was paid accordingly. He did look slower after the ICU scare (occurred at end of 1st season), but he came back and was still consistent. His issue overall has been his usage and the constant shuffling of coaches. And Coach Krueger. What Krueger did to this team was criminal.

If you were playing the Sabres in a game-sim, Okposo would be a skilled player with a low Injury rating. He'd never leave your top 6 in the years he's been here. You wouldn't have traded ROR. If you acquired Pommer, then you would have moved Reino to center (or just kept Foligno at LW and Reinhart at RW). But Okposo is a lock on RW (probably with ROR) that entire time.

[DarthEbriate]

An Okposo Deep Dive:

Okposo hasn't lived up to $6M/year, but he was going to get good money as the top UFA RW. He's been more than serviceable and his contract hasn't limited the team. In fact, this year and next, they really need him to make as much as he's making until they start signing some of the kids' second deals. I'd love him on a veteran 3rd/4th-line comparable deal to wind up his career. Really make him into the next core's Grier like @woods-racer says.

2016-2017: 65gp 19-26-45, -7, 18:58
HC DDB
Primary line: Reinhart-ROR-Okposo
Okposo's line is the best line while Eichel learns to be a 2C. Okposo misses most of March, returns for 2 games and then has the ICU scare. Otherwise, he'd be a 20-30-50 guy. Not good enough for 1RW, but it's an offensively challenged squad with no scoring depth. Ennis suffers a 2nd consecutive injury-riddled and unproductive season that removes a key scorer from the lineup. The result: GMTM/HC DDB fired! although not necessarily from on-ice performance.

2017-2018: 76gp 15-29-44 -34 17:02
HC Housley
Primary line: Not really. Housley cycles Pominville, Reino, and Okposo with every center on the roster: Eichel, ROR, ERod, Larry, even Mitts
Okposo looks a bit off/slower from the injury/ICU. Pommer's arrival and hot start moves Okposo down the lineup, Reinhart goes to top-6 RW instead of moving to C. This is maybe for the best because Eichel is still only a 2C and is a defensive liability...nothing surprising or alarming about that as Eichel is still a kid with top 1C potential. Defensive injuries abound and the goaltending craters the season (team sv% of .896).

2018-2019: 78gp 14-15-29 -9  13:47
HC Housley
Primary lines: Sheary-Mitts-Okposo; Girgs-Larsson-Okposo
At season's start, Okposo is veteran presence for Mitts (who should be in AHL). In reality, this should be Reinhart-Okposo (or ROR-Okposo). Eichel is now a 1C and has Skinner, but the team has no 2C because ROR. It doesn't work. Goaltending and now 2C are a mess. Housley fired. Krueger hired.

2019-20: 52gp  9-10-19 -3   12:51
HC Krueger
Primary line: Girgs-Larsson-Okposo
Krueger goes all-in on the GLO line as a checking line. They are great together, but they play limited minutes. Okposo should be in the top 6 instead of... SOBOTKA! Right wingers who average more ice-time than Okposo: Sobotka! Sheary (also skated LW)! Frolik! Okposo misses 17 games with injuries. Eichel is fantastic and is a full 1C with some MVP chatter, but Skinner is shuffled endlessly until he disappears. Hutton sucks and Ullmark gets hurt. COVID ends the season.

Breaking this season in two parts:

2020-21: 23gp 0-4-4  -6  13:04
HC Krueger
Primary line: Rieder-Eakin-Okposo
Girgs is hurt in preseason and Okposo misses the start of the season. Larry is angry in Arizona. HC Krueger creates a checking line with Eakin and Rieder and Okposo. Okposo lifts the other two up but Rieder isn't much more than a PKer and Eakin is where offense goes to sleep. It's garbage. Injuries and COVID crush the team. Krueger fired! 

2020-21: 12gp 2-7-9  +5  15:27
HC Granato
Primary line: None, really. Granato is experimenting. Ruotsalainen, Sheahen, Cozens, some Eakin.
VO moves to RW for Skinner-Reinhart-Olofsson and the Asplund-Mitts-Thompson is formed. Okposo is fantastic and regains his offense with more balanced minutes. Unfortunately, injury (Irwin shoots a dump-in into Okposo's head) ends his season at 35 out of 56 games played.

2021-22 so far: 33gp 13-17-30  -10  16:47
HC Granato
Primary line: Mostly LW-Cozens-Okposo. Some Krebs. Started the season as Girgs-Eakin-Okposo
Still way-below-average goaltending, constant injuries/COVID, and no 1C. Okposo looks great in bursts and looks steady on most nights. Solid on PP2.

[Doohickie]

I said this last year:

On 4/4/2021 at 9:54 PM, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I say this about Okposo:  He's finding ways to be useful.  He works hard.  He was part of a great shut-down line last year.  This year he's slid up due to injuries to the top line.  He doesn't look out of place.  He's one of the few Sabres who plays, and who's always played, with a physical attitude.  He had a life-threatening injury that took over a year to recover from and he still gives his all most nights.  I think this year his past injury is finally behind him and he's showing he's still a solid player, even if he's not worth what we're paying him.  Every team has a contract or two like that.  He's ours.  But he's doing all he can to provide as much value as he can.  I got nothing against him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I've seen KO's name pop-up on trade rumors sites lately.  Teams need leadership and depth scoring for a playoff run and KO would be perfect.  My guess is that because of his big contract most teams would have a hard time fitting him under their cap.  That said it's still something that KA would probably listen to.  So, if would If you were KA, if someone offers us a 2nd rd pick for KO at the deadline would you take it?  Would it take more to convince you?

I wouldn't for 3 reasons.  1.  He has found his game under DG.  2. He is a leader in the clubhouse; something we lack. 3. We need his cap hit just to get to cap floor.

[Sabel79]

Gonna need him on the ice and his salary to hit the cap floor next year.  

Hard no, absent some offer so ridiculous the other GM would be fired instantly for making it.  

[PromoTheRobot]

18 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Gonna need him on the ice and his salary to hit the cap floor next year.  

Hard no, absent some offer so ridiculous the other GM would be fired instantly for making it.  

We don't have to gut the Sabres. We have enough other moveable assets to trade. Okposo is under contract and brings the glue that this team can use going forward

[woods-racer]

He would be impossible to replace. 

He is exactly what many here have been harping for, a seasoned vet with leadership and some game left. We need one more just like him.

[DarthEbriate]

41 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Gonna need him on the ice and his salary to hit the cap floor next year.  

Hard no, absent some offer so ridiculous the other GM would be fired instantly for making it.  

The cap floor next year and this year. If Okposo were to be moved for the deadline (or the offseason) we'd need to bring $6M back in to get back to the floor. That's not how the weaponizing cap space works.

And he's the heart-and-soul of the team. 

[JohnC]

No player with their particular contract is a hinderance for this team to add talent to this roster this offseason. That applies  to Skinner and Okposo. This organization is so under the cap that it assumed a contract of a player that it wasn't going to keep for the sole person of meeting the cap floor. Is Skinner overpaid relative to his production? It really doesn't matter as long as he is scoring goals. Is Okposo overpaid relative to his production? It doesn't matter.  This organization, if it so desires, will have the ability to add talent this offseason if it wants to upgrade the roster. The most important issue regarding contracts relates to term more than it does to annual pay. The Sabres may be in the best position of almost all teams to bring in players in a cost responsible manner. It comes down to the willingness to do so. 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I've seen KO's name pop-up on trade rumors sites lately.  Teams need leadership and depth scoring for a playoff run and KO would be perfect.  My guess is that because of his big contract most teams would have a hard time fitting him under their cap.  That said it's still something that KA would probably listen to.  So, if would If you were KA, if someone offers us a 2nd rd pick for KO at the deadline would you take it?  Would it take more to convince you?

I wouldn't for 3 reasons.  1.  He has found his game under DG.  2. He is a leader in the clubhouse; something we lack. 3. We need his cap hit just to get to cap floor.

Retain 50% and bump up to a 1st round pick (with maybe a lesser pick going back).  It gives the Sabres the draft capital to combine picks to move up to a very high pick if they don't win the lottery, and still have a coupla of other first rounders.

Edited March 4, 2022 by The Ghost of Yuri

[nfreeman]

Well, I’ve been quite critical of KO, but he’s certainly done a great job in resurrecting his career this year.  He’s been a good, solid player, albeit well overpaid.  I don’t think anyone would offer the Sabres enough for him to make trading him worthwhile for the Sabres.  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I’ve been quite critical of KO, but he’s certainly done a great job in resurrecting his career this year.  He’s been a good, solid player, albeit well overpaid.  I don’t think anyone would offer the Sabres enough for him to make trading him worthwhile for the Sabres.  

Idk if he's well overpaid anymore, he might be but with the price of players going up and his resurrection, this year at least he's earning his contract. 

[pi2000]

I wouldn't actively shop him, but If he wants to be moved I'm OK with it.  He's a been a model citizen.   He deserves a chance to compete for a championship.

[dudacek]

9 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I’ve been quite critical of KO, but he’s certainly done a great job in resurrecting his career this year.  He’s been a good, solid player, albeit well overpaid.  I don’t think anyone would offer the Sabres enough for him to make trading him worthwhile for the Sabres.  

Would you take a 1st for him, max retention?

Nick Foligno got a 1st and a 4th last year with 7 goals at the trade deadline. His cap hit was $5.5, he was 33 and he hadn’t topped 35 points the 3 previous years.

I don’t think there’s any argument this year’s Okposo is a better player than last year’s Foligno.