Potential Sabres deadline moves(sellers)…

[Buffalonill]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If Adams had signed Hall to a LT deal he would not be Kevyn Adams 

 I still don't know if hes a good GM to be honest

[woods-racer]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We have so many picks I wouldn’t mind dealing a couple (non 1sts), personally. But if the reasonable upgrade can be had without parting with any, that would work too

If your paying with seconds or thirds what term of contract are you looking at for a goalie?

I would like one with at least 3 years term for a second round pick that is considered a starter. I'd do that but I just don't see one coming available unless covid is a bit of a distant memory.

[Curt]

53 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Please forgive my attempted witticisms.

Tell me:  other than "pacing for 40 points" based on a 37-game sample, what about Hall's time with the Sabres would you say was better than terrible?  How would you describe his play?

I would describe it as 5% to 10% more effective than Bjork's play this season, minus the mediocre penalty-killing.  He was good at carrying the puck up ice on the wing at speed and then doing nothing with it.  Otherwise he was invisible.

Butting in:

Disagree.  Hall was a lot better than that.

He did create a fair amount of chances, but didn’t cash in on his shots. The memory of his play is tainted in our minds by the expectations we had for him as well as for the team, and by his $8M contract.

[dudacek]

You guys can both be right.

I'm not sure exactly when the worm turned, but January's Taylor Hall was a legit top 6 winger who pushed play and created chances, but was snakebit when it came to scoring goals.

By the time the trade deadline rolled around, he was a god-awful excuse-me player collecting a paycheque and doing his best not to get hurt before he could engineer his trade to Boston.

Edited January 21, 2022 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

[French Collection]

Weaponize the Cap space.

I want to see them get tangible assets, preferably prospects on the cusp of making it to take on some salary for a few months. There must be a lot of teams wanting to add players who they think will get them deep into the playoffs but they don’t have cap space. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Miller can bring back a pick and someone might think one of the Jags can provide injury insurance for a late pick.

[Brawndo]

On 1/20/2022 at 6:01 PM, Thorny said:

Sam was still 2 years from UFA at that point and has said he was open to signing - as far as I’ve heard it was only this most recent offseason where signing wasn’t an option for Reinhart, because the Eichel matter was settled. 

Taylor Hall signed on Oct 11, 2020. Sam Reinhart notched his extension on Oct 25, 2020. By the time Reinhart had signed his deal the plan had been changed for a long time and Eichel was staying. 

Reinhart could have been signed LT. 

Contrary to Reinhart’s Public Statements, Samson wasn’t looking for a long term deal in Buffalo. 

On 1/20/2022 at 6:11 PM, Thorny said:

Also, let me get ahead of it here - if this is going to go down the path of: “Sam and everyone else knew the year was just a one year stop gap”, along the lines of the “Adams knew it would fail all along that’s why he made no-commitment moves like Staal and Hall” we’ve heard, then the whole exercise is freaking absurd. No one was going into it in good faith (just Ralph?) and therefore the season doesn’t provide a fair body of work for determining if a more “go for it” strategy could have worked. 

It would be a frustrating self fulfilling prophecy: if Reinhart *couldn’t* have been signed because he absolutely wouldn’t believe this team was headed for anything other than a rebuild/parting from Jack perhaps Adams shouldn’t have allowed Reinhart to develop that perception by being so focused on instituting the rebuild.

Again, Adams may be completely right in seeking that rebuild - but saying he couldn’t have had a different viewpoint and approached things differently would be ridiculous.

Players are pretty smart and can see what makes a successful franchise. Strong ownership, a stable front office with a good hockey ops department.  A strong scouting department that drafts well and can develop its prospect pool properly and good coaching. Anyone could look at the Sabres and realize they did not have any of those things. 
 

By the time the Summer of 2020 rolled around Reinhart and Crew were on their third GM in five years, third coach and the person who was hired as GM had zero NHL Hockey Ops, spent His First Hours on the job axing two thirds of the Sabres Existing Hockey Ops Department. 
 

Prior to this the Pegulas and the Sabres Organization did not have the best reputation around the league, afterwards some considered the Sabres a laughingstock. 
 

He and Eichel watched ROR go on to win a cup, Kane and Bogo head to better run, or in Bogosian’s Case one the premier NHL Franchises, where he eventually won a Cup in September of 2020. All of them conveyed what a difference moving to a new team made. 
 

So even before Adams had a chance to sit down and discuss what His Vision for the Sabres moving forward with any of the players, Reinhart’s and Eichel’s Exit Strategy was put into place. Reinhart wasn’t signing anything longer with Buffalo than a two year deal that would have taken Him to UFA.  
 

Samson’s Preception of the Franchise was solidified long before Adams was named GM. 
 

Now I have no idea if Adams will be successful as GM particularly with the rebuild,  but he has built a Front Office that actually has garnered respect around the league. 
 

His Analytics Department, at least on paper, is considered one of the leagues better ones. 
And all those tweets I shared after Matt Barlowe was hired, all those posters frequently skewered the Sabres for personnel decisions they had made. Even Eric Tulsky poked fun at Botterill’s Decision to bring up Dalton Smith. 
So seeing them actually praising the Sabres Decision Making Process was refreshing, hence My Reason for sharing all of them.
 

I am interested in seeing what moves he makes in the offseason to solidify goaltending and bring in better quality veteran defenseman. 

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Contrary to Reinhart’s Public Statements, Samson wasn’t looking for a long term deal in Buffalo. 

Players are pretty smart and can see what makes a successful franchise. Strong ownership, a stable front office with a good hockey ops department.  A strong scouting department that drafts well and can develop its prospect pool properly and good coaching. Anyone could look at the Sabres and realize they did not have any of those things. 
 

By the time the Summer of 2020 rolled around Reinhart and Crew were on their third GM in five years, third coach and the person who was hired as GM had zero NHL Hockey Ops, spent His First Hours on the job axing two thirds of the Sabres Existing Hockey Ops Department. 
 

Prior to this the Pegulas and the Sabres Organization did not have the best reputation around the league, afterwards some considered the Sabres a laughingstock. 
 

He and Eichel watched ROR go on to win a cup, Kane and Bogo head to better run, or in Bogosian’s Case one the premier NHL Franchises, where he eventually won a Cup in September of 2020. All of them conveyed what a difference moving to a new team made. 
 

So even before Adams had a chance to sit down and discuss what His Vision for the Sabres moving forward with any of the players, Reinhart’s and Eichel’s Exit Strategy was put into place. Reinhart wasn’t signing anything longer with Buffalo than a two year deal that would have taken Him to UFA.  
 

Samson’s Preception of the Franchise was solidified long before Adams was named GM. 
 

Now I have no idea if Adams will be successful as GM particularly with the rebuild,  but he has built a Front Office that actually has garnered respect around the league. 
 

His Analytics Department, at least on paper, is considered one of the leagues better ones. 
And all those tweets I shared after Matt Barlowe was hired, all those posters frequently skewered the Sabres for personnel decisions they had made. Even Eric Tulsky poked fun at Botterill’s Decision to bring up Dalton Smith. 
So seeing them actually praising the Sabres Decision Making Process was refreshing, hence My Reason for sharing all of them.
 

I am interested in seeing what moves he makes in the offseason to solidify goaltending and bring in better quality veteran defenseman. 

I’m well familiar with what Sam and co witnessed throughout their years here, the Sabres rep league wide, and what players generally look for, thanks.

If we believe we have the information to know that Sam was a liar, and exactly what he was thinking, and that he absolutely was committed to ditching buffalo (unlike Eichel - who said in the Elliot interview he was good with giving the “go for it with Hall” a legitimate shot (unless he was bold faced lying as well), and that Adams had an honest to goodness snowball’s chance in hell of changing Sam’s mind.... 

Ok, then, I agree he’s off the hook. 

Oh, and the fans should direct more tar at Reinhart than they do Eichel. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Thorny

[FogBat]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:39 PM, inkman said:

He’s definitely met expectations. He’s a placeholder until next season. 

I haven’t been able to watch any of the games this season, so I have to trust everyone else’s assessments of what the Sabres have put forth this season. Having said that, someday, we will see a light at the end of the tunnel. I just don’t know when that will be. It is depressing to be stuck in the Valley of the Shadow of Death for so long.

[Eleven]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:13 PM, inkman said:

I love the nickname but dude has been unremarkable is every way 

Very strong Gates Orlando vibe.

[Brawndo]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m well familiar with what Sam and co witnessed throughout their years here, the Sabres rep league wide, and what players generally look for, thanks.

If we believe we have the information to know that Sam was a liar, and exactly what he was thinking, and that he absolutely was committed to ditching buffalo (unlike Eichel - who said in the Elliot interview he was good with giving the “go for it with Hall” a legitimate shot (unless he was bold faced lying as well), and that Adams had an honest to goodness snowball’s chance in hell of changing Sam’s mind.... 

Ok, then, I agree he’s off the hook. 

Oh, and the fans should direct more tar at Reinhart than they do Eichel. 

I wouldn’t tar and feather Samson. 
 

Look how the organization treated His Contracts. He was willing to go long term after His ELC, but Botterill didn’t like long term deals. Then Jack gets an eight year extension and less then a year after he signs a bridge contract, Samson watches Skinner get a eight year deal as well. I would be upset with that, especially if the rumor that Terry got involved with both contracts is true. 
 

He didn’t bash the organization publicly in any interviews and called to thank Adams the day after the trade. I have heard countless hockey players say they want to stay with a particular organization, shortly before they are moved. It’s part of the business. 
 

Eichel said Himself that the Interview with Friedman would have gone much differently had the trade not happened. 
And of course he was Ok with going for it with Hall, he really didn’t have any choice with five years left on His Deal. 
He had asked to be traded before this though, that’s where McKenzie got His Information for this 

 

 

I believe any tar regarding these two should be directed at the Top. 
 

If they step back and let the new front office do their job as they are rumored to be doing that’s a different story 

[Weave]

I tend to believe that Sam was willing to play wait and see with the Sabres by the time he was bridged the second time, and was not on board with a 2nd rebuild.   And I think Jack had already made up his mind by then that he needed a change of scenery.

[Taro T]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Contrary to Reinhart’s Public Statements, Samson wasn’t looking for a long term deal in Buffalo. 

Players are pretty smart and can see what makes a successful franchise. Strong ownership, a stable front office with a good hockey ops department.  A strong scouting department that drafts well and can develop its prospect pool properly and good coaching. Anyone could look at the Sabres and realize they did not have any of those things. 
 

By the time the Summer of 2020 rolled around Reinhart and Crew were on their third GM in five years, third coach and the person who was hired as GM had zero NHL Hockey Ops, spent His First Hours on the job axing two thirds of the Sabres Existing Hockey Ops Department. 
 

Prior to this the Pegulas and the Sabres Organization did not have the best reputation around the league, afterwards some considered the Sabres a laughingstock. 
 

He and Eichel watched ROR go on to win a cup, Kane and Bogo head to better run, or in Bogosian’s Case one the premier NHL Franchises, where he eventually won a Cup in September of 2020. All of them conveyed what a difference moving to a new team made. 
 

So even before Adams had a chance to sit down and discuss what His Vision for the Sabres moving forward with any of the players, Reinhart’s and Eichel’s Exit Strategy was put into place. Reinhart wasn’t signing anything longer with Buffalo than a two year deal that would have taken Him to UFA.  
 

Samson’s Preception of the Franchise was solidified long before Adams was named GM. 
 

Now I have no idea if Adams will be successful as GM particularly with the rebuild,  but he has built a Front Office that actually has garnered respect around the league. 
 

His Analytics Department, at least on paper, is considered one of the leagues better ones. 
And all those tweets I shared after Matt Barlowe was hired, all those posters frequently skewered the Sabres for personnel decisions they had made. Even Eric Tulsky poked fun at Botterill’s Decision to bring up Dalton Smith. 
So seeing them actually praising the Sabres Decision Making Process was refreshing, hence My Reason for sharing all of them.
 

I am interested in seeing what moves he makes in the offseason to solidify goaltending and bring in better quality veteran defenseman. 

And if Reinhart got the LT deal off his ELC both he & Eichel would still be here IMHO.  Knowing they both were locked in for 5 more years would've made it a lot harder for either to ask for a trade out of the mess that were the 1st days of the Adams administration.

MHO. YMMV.

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And if Reinhart got the LT deal off his ELC both he & Eichel would still be here IMHO.  Knowing they both were locked in for 5 more years would've made it a lot harder for either to ask for a trade out of the mess that were the 1st days of the Adams administration.

MHO. YMMV.

That one was all Botterill. Samson could have been signed 8 years with an AAV 5-6 Million.

 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

That one was all Botterill. Samson could have been signed 8 years with an AAV 5-6 Million.

 

Yep.  Huge miscalculation on his part.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Yep.  Huge miscalculation on his part.

Yes but part of me is glad Sam of all ppl is on a cup contender right now. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by LGR4GM

[FogBat]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes but part of me is glad Sam of all ppl is on a cup contender right now. 

Playing alongside one of the oldest men on the ice.

This may be your year, Joe.

[Thorny]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I wouldn’t tar and feather Samson. 
 

Look how the organization treated His Contracts. He was willing to go long term after His ELC, but Botterill didn’t like long term deals. Then Jack gets an eight year extension and less then a year after he signs a bridge contract, Samson watches Skinner get a eight year deal as well. I would be upset with that, especially if the rumor that Terry got involved with both contracts is true. 
 

He didn’t bash the organization publicly in any interviews and called to thank Adams the day after the trade. I have heard countless hockey players say they want to stay with a particular organization, shortly before they are moved. It’s part of the business. 
 

Eichel said Himself that the Interview with Friedman would have gone much differently had the trade not happened. 
And of course he was Ok with going for it with Hall, he really didn’t have any choice with five years left on His Deal. 
He had asked to be traded before this though, that’s where McKenzie got His Information for this 

 

 

I believe any tar regarding these two should be directed at the Top. 
 

If they step back and let the new front office do their job as they are rumored to be doing that’s a different story 

I don’t actually want to tar and feather einhorn OR finkle - that wasn’t my point haha. I wouldn’t hold it against them at all personally if they both wanted a fresh start elsewhere, and furthermore I don’t believe them to have been as irrevocably set on leaving as you do, 2 years ago. 

Not necessarily, not if they hadn’t gotten wind of Adams wanting another rebuild. 

And, as if minds can’t change. The certainty at which we speak on these things borders on wonky. We have seen fences mended before. I would think this especially true of Reinhart.

My viewpoint is that it’s hypothetically possible Adams could have locked up Sam to a longer deal. Had his plan been different it’s conceivable, given Sam’s comments (and, ya know, money talks - come on now), that a deal could have been worked out. Most likely 2 summers ago. The plan being different could and would have changed so much. 

You are basically saying it was impossible. I don’t really feel comfortable with that kind of absolute. But I don’t know Sam, so, ya, could be. 

 

 

[Flashsabre]

Montreal just got a new front office. I wonder if Adams talks to them about Luke Tuch. Not a massive move but a local kid who is big,  can skate, would want to be here with his brother and could be a good bottom 6 forward. Continue to build that local culture.

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes but part of me is glad Sam of all ppl is on a cup contender right now. 

Have relatives that are Swamp Cat STHers, so am OK w/ him doing well there if he can't be here.

But ftmp, really don't care how former Sabres do after they move on when they aren't playing against the Sabres.  When they do well, good for them, but don't really root for them at that point usually.  (There've been a couple of favorites that have moved that that didn't hold true for, and know he was a favorite of yours, so enjoy him doing well.) 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Have relatives that are Swamp Cat STHers, so am OK w/ him doing well there if he can't be here.

But ftmp, really don't care how former Sabres do after they move on when they aren't playing against the Sabres.  When they do well, good for them, but don't really root for them at that point usually.  (There've been a couple of favorites that have moved that that didn't hold true for, and know he was a favorite of yours, so enjoy him doing well.) 

I only cheer for Sam because of how under appreciated he was and how much he worked to get better. Hell a Buffalo reporter took a shot at him this season back in November. Sam Reinhart is fine. 

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I only cheer for Sam because of how under appreciated he was and how much he worked to get better. Hell a Buffalo reporter took a shot at him this season back in November. Sam Reinhart is fine. 

I can still root for Sam's success, wherever that may be for him.  The only thing that I was a bit surprised on was that he remained in the eastern conference.  

[French Collection]

Friedman’s 32 Thoughts mention that Colorado has interest in Claude Giroux but need a third team to make the $$ work.

This is what I’m thinking KA needs to do with the space. Short term spending of TP’s money to get some assets.

Justin Barron is a RHD prospect for them in the AHL.

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Friedman’s 32 Thoughts mention that Colorado has interest in Claude Giroux but need a third team to make the $$ work.

This is what I’m thinking KA needs to do with the space. Short term spending of TP’s money to get some assets.

Justin Barron is a RHD prospect for them in the AHL.

1st round picks and top prospects usually don’t get moved to third teams. It is usually 2nd or 3rd round picks for taking on salary.

Agree with your idea though.

[French Collection]

28 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

1st round picks and top prospects usually don’t get moved to third teams. It is usually 2nd or 3rd round picks for taking on salary.

Agree with your idea though.

Sabres could sweeten the deal to increase the return. Miller with his half salary retained for example.