Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[IKnowPhysics]

Tuch gushing about his Sabres fandom:

 

Give him an 'A' right now.

[Thorny]

Sabres bedsheets or it didn’t happen 

[kas23]

And everyone laughed about the importance of him leading the stretches. It all started there…

[Zamboni]

[dudacek]

Eichel gushing about his Sabres fandom

 

[IKnowPhysics]

Interesting to hear more details from his point of view.  I'd love to hear more details from the organization side.

It's unclear yet what the root cause of the sticking point was.  The Buffalo doctor quietly being in agreement then not being in agreement and distancing from the situation is an interesting move.  Also interesting that Buffalo's only medical recommendation was more and more slow rehab.

Also interesting that Vegas was like, "yeah, you did the research, sure, whatever you want to do."

Also interesting, but not unexpected, that Eichel didn't mention firing his agent.

 

Something was up here, and it doesn't seem like it was in the Hockey Department.  Maybe team insurance on Eichel's contract was saying ADR isn't covered?  Maybe egos playing among the doctors about who gets to heal the star?

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Eichel gushing about his Sabres fandom

 

30 seconds was enough.

[K-9]

I could only get half way thru. Not because of Eichel so much as Weidman. I think he’s a total tool.

I’m convinced Eichel pissed off one or both of the Pegulas at some point and I suspect it was when he first demanded to be traded before the 2020/2021 COVID shortened season and made it readily apparent he wasn’t interested in being part of the solution here, even after they tried getting him some better surrounding players  I’d be pissed at him, too, after giving him his big contract, making him the face of the franchise, and then being told thanks but no thanks. I’ll just say good luck to Eichel and leave it at that. 

I gotta kick out of his reference to Dr. Cappuccino as “a well respected person in the field.” That might be the understatement of all time seeing as he was a pioneer of the procedure, has performed more of them than anyone on the planet, and travels the world teaching the technique to neurosurgeons all around the globe. After hearing Eichel, I’m now certain that the Pegulas made it clear to Dr. Cappuccino that ADR was never gonna be an option and that’s why he changed his tune. And that’s regrettable on many levels. 

[inkman]

7 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

30 seconds was enough.

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, K-9 said:

I could only get half way thru. Not because of Eichel so much as Weidman. I think he’s a total tool.

I’m convinced Eichel pissed off one or both of the Pegulas at some point and I suspect it was when he first demanded to be traded before the 2020/2021 COVID shortened season and made it readily apparent he wasn’t interested in being part of the solution here, even after they tried getting him some better surrounding players  I’d be pissed at him, too, after giving him his big contract, making him the face of the franchise, and then being told thanks but no thanks. I’ll just say good luck to Eichel and leave it at that. 

I gotta kick out of his reference to Dr. Cappuccino as “a well respected person in the field.” That might be the understatement of all time seeing as he was a pioneer of the procedure, has performed more of them than anyone on the planet, and travels the world teaching the technique to neurosurgeons all around the globe. After hearing Eichel, I’m now certain that the Pegulas made it clear to Dr. Cappuccino that ADR was never gonna be an option and that’s why he changed his tune. And that’s regrettable on many levels. 

Seems we've finally found agreement on this one. Every word.

I find it interesting how much the "C" meant to Jack, and unsurprising that he conveniently omitted the fact his trade demand was already well-entrenched when they removed it.

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Tuch gushing about his Sabres fandom:

 

Give him an 'A' right now.

When Tuch was in LV he was on a cup contending team and playing in front of capacity and raucous crowds. Now he is in Buffalo playing in front of a mostly empty arena and is playing on a losing team. I'm not bringing this up to suggest that he isn't happy to be here and be closer to his family. My fear is that unless there is a quicker turn-around his initial enthusiasm of returning home will soon wane. I have this same concern of disillusionment from our new young core that has known nothing but team failure. My hope is that this ownership and front office lean toward the side of being aggressive in accelerating the rebuild. This offseason this franchise will have cap resources to increase the pace of the rebuild. I hope they take advantage of it. 

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When Tuch was in LV he was on a cup contending team and playing in front of capacity and raucous crowds. Now he is in Buffalo playing in front of a mostly empty arena and is playing on a losing team. I'm not bringing this up to suggest that he isn't happy to be here and be closer to his family. My fear is that unless there is a quicker turn-around his initial enthusiasm of returning home will soon wane. I have this same concern of disillusionment from our new young core that has known nothing but team failure. My hope is that this ownership and front office lean toward the side of being aggressive in accelerating the rebuild. This offseason this franchise will have cap resources to increase the pace of the rebuild. I hope they take advantage of it. 

No. We did that in 2015 and it got us here. 

Wasting cap space in UFA this summer or trading assets for vets on bigger deals is the exact wrong way to use the resources we have. Instead of having Brock Boeser on this roster we have no one for one example. They need to use accumulate and maintain every asset they have under 23. Just because we the fans are bored and annoyed doesn't mean that Tuch will suddenly feel the same when if he has half a brain he knows where the franchise stands. They'll be in a conversation for that last playoff spot next year but will not make it unless goaltending gets them there. If the young core becomes disillusioned so quickly after a whopping 2 year rebuild, we have bigger problems because they weren't that mentally strong to begin with. 

Adversity builds champions. Barkov was on a Panthers team that was bad for several years and look at him now. Same goes for Ekblad. Barkov saw the playoffs once in his first 6 years in the league and yet he still kept working and striving to be better. MacKinnon saw playoffs his first year and then did not see them again for 3 years and didn't win a playoff series for until 5 years after being drafted. Only weak wills face adversity and crumble, Alex Tuch doesn't strike me as the type. Neither does Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Dahlin, Power, Levi, UPL, etc... If they can't handle 1 growth season or even 2, then yes trade them away because they don't have what it takes. If this team thinks the solution to winning is not in their locker room, aka it isn't there fault they lose but because of some outside thing that the GM has to provide them with, barf. They need to look internally and ask what can I do to make my team better, because that is what they have actual control over. They don't control who the goaltender is or who their winger is. Sam Reinhart spent years doing this, and he improved every year because of it. 

It is one reason why I believe in Granato. When you listen to players talk they aren't talking about losses and missing playoffs, they are talking about what they need to do to be better. Dahlin is the poster child, Cozens is getting there, Quinn has been unlucky but he's getting there too. If there is something that becomes available to help them, sure acquire it but not at the sake of young assets (which is usually the price) or screwing up the cap going forward. Sure we have money for 2022, but what about 2023 and 2024? Tage, Cozens, Asplund and Samuelsson will need contract to start that year. Krebs, Dahlin, Joker, and Power will be in the last years of their deals for that season. You have to sign by my count 8 of your core players in the course of 12 months but we want to "accelerate" things and use up cap space, no. 

 

[Thorny]

Very interesting listening to them talk about the politics of injuries. How it’s not just in Buffalo where a conflict of interest can easily arise - players being limited in their options because teams push them towards the outlets they have deals with. Islanders were mentioned as another example

All in all it seems like it does quite wrong by the athletes. In the end it’s a business so I get it, but I’m not getting out my Pom Pom’s for a corporation as willingly as others. The practices are still skeptical and bogus. I come down on the side of the individual here and it’s easy to see how poorly the Sabres handled this from a medical standpoint 

Was clearly about the injury for Jack and the team’s desire to frame it as “guys who want to be here” just makes them look even worse 

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No. We did that in 2015 and it got us here. 

Wasting cap space in UFA this summer or trading assets for vets on bigger deals is the exact wrong way to use the resources we have. Instead of having Brock Boeser on this roster we have no one for one example. They need to use accumulate and maintain every asset they have under 23. Just because we the fans are bored and annoyed doesn't mean that Tuch will suddenly feel the same when if he has half a brain he knows where the franchise stands. They'll be in a conversation for that last playoff spot next year but will not make it unless goaltending gets them there. If the young core becomes disillusioned so quickly after a whopping 2 year rebuild, we have bigger problems because they weren't that mentally strong to begin with. 

Adversity builds champions. Barkov was on a Panthers team that was bad for several years and look at him now. Same goes for Ekblad. Barkov saw the playoffs once in his first 6 years in the league and yet he still kept working and striving to be better. MacKinnon saw playoffs his first year and then did not see them again for 3 years and didn't win a playoff series for until 5 years after being drafted. Only weak wills face adversity and crumble, Alex Tuch doesn't strike me as the type. Neither does Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Dahlin, Power, Levi, UPL, etc... If they can't handle 1 growth season or even 2, then yes trade them away because they don't have what it takes. If this team thinks the solution to winning is not in their locker room, aka it isn't there fault they lose but because of some outside thing that the GM has to provide them with, barf. They need to look internally and ask what can I do to make my team better, because that is what they have actual control over. They don't control who the goaltender is or who their winger is. Sam Reinhart spent years doing this, and he improved every year because of it. 

It is one reason why I believe in Granato. When you listen to players talk they aren't talking about losses and missing playoffs, they are talking about what they need to do to be better. Dahlin is the poster child, Cozens is getting there, Quinn has been unlucky but he's getting there too. If there is something that becomes available to help them, sure acquire it but not at the sake of young assets (which is usually the price) or screwing up the cap going forward. Sure we have money for 2022, but what about 2023 and 2024? Tage, Cozens, Asplund and Samuelsson will need contract to start that year. Krebs, Dahlin, Joker, and Power will be in the last years of their deals for that season. You have to sign by my count 8 of your core players in the course of 12 months but we want to "accelerate" things and use up cap space, no. 

 

You are mistakenly extrapolating my position to an extreme. You are citing past failures and attaching them to the present and approaching offseason. That is not close to what I am suggesting. There is a reasonable middle here that I believe can accelerate the rebuild without mortgaging/sabotaging the rebuild. How Murray functioned during his tenure is not the model that I am advocating for. It's the opposite of his approach and it more favors the KA approach. What I would like to see is some of the large available cap money being used for maybe two, three or four quality (not elite) players that will replace some of the very pedestrian players that are currently on the roster. That certainly isn't a high cost or asset depleting change of direction of the current course this franchise is on. 

I have stated on more than a few occasions that I believe this is a three year rebuild with this year being the first year. I still believe that. I also believe that because of the vanishing fan base and the damage done by constant losing to the young core that the accelerator has to be stepped down on a little harder in order to gain more credibility with the fanbase and the hockey world. 

You may have forgotten that we lost our previous core for a variety of reasons but much of it due to the corrosion of constant losing. I don't want to see that happen again. 

The Sabres have 

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are mistakenly extrapolating my position to an extreme. You are citing past failures and attaching them to the present and approaching offseason. That is not close to what I am suggesting. There is a reasonable middle here that I believe can accelerate the rebuild without mortgaging/sabotaging the rebuild. How Murray functioned during his tenure is not the model that I am advocating for. It's the opposite of his approach and it more favors the KA approach. What I would like to see is some of the large available cap money being used for maybe two, three or four quality (not elite) players that will replace some of the very pedestrian players that are currently on the roster. That certainly isn't a high cost or asset depleting change of direction of the current course this franchise is on. 

I have stated on more than a few occasions that I believe this is a three year rebuild with this year being the first year. I still believe that. I also believe that because of the vanishing fan base and the damage done by constant losing to the young core that the accelerator has to be stepped down on a little harder in order to gain more credibility with the fanbase and the hockey world. 

You may have forgotten that we lost our previous core for a variety of reasons but much of it due to the corrosion of constant losing. I don't want to see that happen again. 

The Sabres have 

And you seem to have forgotten that the reason that core constantly lost was because the Sabres burned assets from money to draft capital to accelerate the rebuild which left them thin in all aspects of the org. That then resulted in constant losing and was compounded by additional mistakes of wasting money on vets that weren't that good to begin with. Which then resulted in trading said vets for diminished returns again hurting the organization. Eichel lost for 6 years, we are in here talking about accelerating things in year 1. Woof. 

As for this cap and quality part, NO UFA, none, are going to come here unless we overpay and there aren't even 3-4 quality ufas to add. You might find 1 if you are lucky. So sure, add 1 decent older vet in ufa if it is reasonable but you aren't adding 3 or 4 quality players in UFA. Which means you would have to trade for them and even quality players cost a 1st and prospect. See Reinhart or Risto or countless other examples. 

At best we might be able to add 1 player due to a teams camp dump, that would be my hope. 

[Doohickie]

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Barkov was on a Panthers team that was bad for several years and look at him now.

See also:  Steve Yzerman.  He was in the league 14 years before winning the Cup.

[LGR4GM]

Sebastian Aho was drafted by the Hurricanes in 2015, they did not make the playoffs for 3 more seasons and had missed the playoffs the proceeding 7 seasons. Aho didn't need an accelerated rebuild and didn't become a moping loser. 

Stamkos did not see playoffs in his first 2 years, Hedman did not see the playoffs in his rookie year. Tampa then made the playoffs and then missed the next 2 seasons meaning that 4 out of 5 and 3 out of 4 of their first seasons in the league, Hedman and Stamkos were not in the playoffs. Didn't become losers though, in fact I would argue that Hedman in particular benefited from failing at first because we know that he spent those 2 missed playoff years increasing his speed and agility to become the dominate defender he is. 

My point is that yes, some players if they lose for a few years will become mopey eeyore's who develop a wooo is me attitude. Other players look internally for ways they can improve or externally for ways they can help their fellow teammates improve. 

 

11 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

See also:  Steve Yzerman.  He was in the league 14 years before winning the Cup.

Alex Ovechkin for that matter. Drafted in 04, first season was the lockout. Then the Caps missed the playoffs the next 2 seasons. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by LGR4GM

[thewookie1]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Very interesting listening to them talk about the politics of injuries. How it’s not just in Buffalo where a conflict of interest can easily arise - players being limited in their options because teams push them towards the outlets they have deals with. Islanders were mentioned as another example

All in all it seems like it does quite wrong by the athletes. In the end it’s a business so I get it, but I’m not getting out my Pom Pom’s for a corporation as willingly as others. The practices are still skeptical and bogus. I come down on the side of the individual here and it’s easy to see how poorly the Sabres handled this from a medical standpoint 

Was clearly about the injury for Jack and the team’s desire to frame it as “guys who want to be here” just makes them look even worse 

He had already asked to be traded prior to the injury; so how I see it is that the Pegulas didn't deem his injury treatment preference as worth the risk for a guy who wanted out regardless. Essentially in my mind, had Eichel not requested a trade the year prior; barring concerns by team doctors, the Pegulas would of gave Eichel the surgery he wanted with little trouble. In my opinion when Eichel requested out, he effectively removed himself from the "family" and thus was no longer given benefit of the doubt and/or carte blanche on his recovery. (He had given up his personhood and became merely an asset) 

[Thorny]

19 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

He had already asked to be traded prior to the injury; so how I see it is that the Pegulas didn't deem his injury treatment preference as worth the risk for a guy who wanted out regardless. Essentially in my mind, had Eichel not requested a trade the year prior; barring concerns by team doctors, the Pegulas would of gave Eichel the surgery he wanted with little trouble. In my opinion when Eichel requested out, he effectively removed himself from the "family" and thus was no longer given benefit of the doubt and/or carte blanche on his recovery. (He had given up his personhood and became merely an asset) 

Asked to be traded only after he got wind of the fact that Adams plan was another large-scale rebuild (and the accompanying losses that would include) after he had already been apart of a couple rebuilds and step backs and teams where “this year was never about winning anyway” was the mantra. Like Botterill’s famous desire to “rip it down to the studs”. 

I don’t blame him at all for wanting to win. Not when his physical career is so limited. Not when he was on board with any *other* plan. Indeed, if we had heard he was good with another several years of non-existent expectations, I’d have severely question whether he was fit to be captain. He wants to win, he wanted success for the crest. Gotta tell you, that’s not as common as one might think. 

[SabresVet]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Sebastian Aho was drafted by the Hurricanes in 2015, they did not make the playoffs for 3 more seasons and had missed the playoffs the proceeding 7 seasons. Aho didn't need an accelerated rebuild and didn't become a moping loser. 

Stamkos did not see playoffs in his first 2 years, Hedman did not see the playoffs in his rookie year. Tampa then made the playoffs and then missed the next 2 seasons meaning that 4 out of 5 and 3 out of 4 of their first seasons in the league, Hedman and Stamkos were not in the playoffs. Didn't become losers though, in fact I would argue that Hedman in particular benefited from failing at first because we know that he spent those 2 missed playoff years increasing his speed and agility to become the dominate defender he is. 

My point is that yes, some players if they lose for a few years will become mopey eeyore's who develop a wooo is me attitude. Other players look internally for ways they can improve or externally for ways they can help their fellow teammates improve. 

 

Alex Ovechkin for that matter. Drafted in 04, first season was the lockout. Then the Caps missed the playoffs the next 2 seasons. 

Comparing Buffalo to Carolina and Tampa Bay in those players' first few seasons is laughably bad.  

Aho was in the playoffs with a 99 point regular season (2018-19) in his 3rd NHL season.  Carolina subsequently made the playoffs in 2019-20 and 2020-21.  As for Stamokos, just before his 3rd season TB hired Yzerman in 2010 and the Lightning played in the Conference Finals that year.  Which, by the way, was Hedman's 2nd NHL season.  

Contrast that with Buffalo, which recorded in Eichel's first 5 seasons, point totals of 81, 78, 62, 76, and, in the shortened 2019-20 season...68.  They weren't even close to the playoffs, aside from that 2019-20 season they finished...25th overall.   

Point is, there was a path forward with observed success for Carolina and Tampa Bay.  Yet, before that 2019-20 season, there was nothing like that in Buffalo.  I'd argue that Buffalo's blood-letting of front office people in early 2020 indicated they were paring down expenses and, if I'm a player, I do not see that as a franchise going for it.  It was perfectly reasonable for Eichel to seek out a trade after spending 5 years in a veritable wasteland of new HC's and GM's.  And, ownership did themselves no favors hiring said HC's and GMs.  Buffalo was mired in the mud going nowhere.  

The post-Eichel Sabres have only so long before the rebuild needs to start showing success.  There are some signs, but poor on-ice performance is what those vets who wanted out could see coming.  If I spent years of my career playing for a moribund team and then realized another rebuild meant 2-3 more seasons of losing...well, anyone would want out. There's only so much losing an athlete can take, particularly when the franchise lacks direction and a sense of urgency. 

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, SabresVet said:

Comparing Buffalo to Carolina and Tampa Bay in those players' first few seasons is laughably bad.  

Aho was in the playoffs with a 99 point regular season (2018-19) in his 3rd NHL season.  Carolina subsequently made the playoffs in 2019-20 and 2020-21.  As for Stamokos, just before his 3rd season TB hired Yzerman in 2010 and the Lightning played in the Conference Finals that year.  Which, by the way, was Hedman's 2nd NHL season.  

Contrast that with Buffalo, which recorded in Eichel's first 5 seasons, point totals of 81, 78, 62, 76, and, in the shortened 2019-20 season...68.  They weren't even close to the playoffs, aside from that 2019-20 season they finished...25th overall.   

Point is, there was a path forward with observed success for Carolina and Tampa Bay.  Yet, before that 2019-20 season, there was nothing like that in Buffalo.  I'd argue that Buffalo's blood-letting of front office people in early 2020 indicated they were paring down expenses and, if I'm a player, I do not see that as a franchise going for it.  It was perfectly reasonable for Eichel to seek out a trade after spending 5 years in a veritable wasteland of new HC's and GM's.  And, ownership did themselves no favors hiring said HC's and GMs.  Buffalo was mired in the mud going nowhere.  

The post-Eichel Sabres have only so long before the rebuild needs to start showing success.  There are some signs, but poor on-ice performance is what those vets who wanted out could see coming.  If I spent years of my career playing for a moribund team and then realized another rebuild meant 2-3 more seasons of losing...well, anyone would want out. There's only so much losing an athlete can take, particularly when the franchise lacks direction and a sense of urgency. 

I like when I get quoted back info that's in my post. 

Also idc about Eichel. I'm fighting against the idea the new young core needs some magical acceleration because of this season of losing. 

I don't give a ***** about Jack Eichel or what he thinks anymore. Good riddance to him. My point is you do not waste draft or young assets to make some accelerated rebuild. 

[pi2000]

Well it was interesting to hear that he's been struggling with neck/nervous system issues since 2018 and hasn't really been healthy at any point since (neck, abdominal, rib fracture..)

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Well it was interesting to hear that he's been struggling with neck/nervous system issues since 2018 and hasn't really been healthy at any point since (neck, abdominal, rib fracture..)

He seems injury prone

[North Buffalo]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He seems injury prone

Or the rumor on the street, I can say now that he is gone... a chemical substance issue.

[Derrico]

14 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Or the rumor on the street, I can say now that he is gone... a chemical substance issue.