Jack Eichel and 2023 3rd Traded to Vegas for F Alex Tuch, C Peyton Krebs, 2022 1st Top Ten Protected and 2023 2nd

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Even if they agreed to allow the ADR from Day One, Jack was gone at that point 

Yes, that's my point.  He was being shopped prior to that.  So once he was injured they weren't going to take a chance on the surgery.

[Brawndo]

 

[Thorny]

That’s ridiculously disingenuous framing by Vogl and I don’t even like the ROR trade obviously 

[Flashsabre]

Tuch has been awesome and great to see Heart and Soul Peyton “Dougie Gilmour” Krebs starting to get comfortable at the NHL level.

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Tuch has been awesome and great to see Heart and Soul Peyton “Dougie Gilmour” Krebs starting to get comfortable at the NHL level.

Still see Krebs as more in an Adam Oates mold than a Doug Gilmour one.  But if he can be 90% of either, he'll still be a nice little player.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Still see Krebs as more in an Adam Oates mold than a Doug Gilmour one.  But if he can be 90% of either, he'll still be a nice little player.

If he’s 90 percent Oates or gilmour he’ll be a nice little hall of famer 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

If he’s 90 percent Oates or gilmour he’ll be a nice little hall of famer 

Meant relative to how they compared to their peers.  Obviously scoring 90% of what they did would put him in elite company.

[Thorny]

Just now, Taro T said:

Meant relative to how they compared to their peers.  Obviously scoring 90% of what they did would put him in elite company.

Sure but if he’s as good relative to his peers as those guys were, I’d argue it comes to the same thing. Players are better than ever, overall.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Sure but if he’s as good relative to his peers as those guys were, I’d argue it comes to the same thing. Players are better than ever, overall.

Well, 90% of either would've been very good, but doubt either makes the Hall if they were only 90% of what they were.

Think we're getting into one of your & @dudacek's semantics battles.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Taro T

[GASabresIUFAN]

36 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That’s ridiculously disingenuous framing by Vogl and I don’t even like the ROR trade obviously 

Agreed, also Thompson has turned into a really good player and Johnson has a chance to be solid as well.  They were the “prizes” from the ROR trade.  Berglund and Sobatka were cap balance and roster filler.

I was about to post an Eichel to Tuch comparison when I saw your and Brawndo’s posts.

Eichel gave us 2 g and 18 points in 21 games last year.  

Tuch so far; 3g 7a for 10 pts in only 9 games.  

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, 90% of either would've been very good, but doubt either makes the Hall if they were only 90% of what they were.

Think we're getting into one of your & @dudacek's semantics battles.

Well, maybe, but I don’t really think that’s very fair. Isn’t there room for a little bit more of a down to earth comparison, without it being semantics?

Oates is one of the best playmakers of all time. Even 90% seems quite lofty. 

Was thinking more of a William Karlsson over in Vegas. I dunno if he’s all star enough for everyone, but, 60ish point, nifty, non-large C..

I’d be a little more comfortable hoping Krebs reaches that level than mounting a reasonable challenge to a HOFer or 2. 

[DarthEbriate]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That’s ridiculously disingenuous framing by Vogl and I don’t even like the ROR trade obviously 

Completely. If you're going to pull that you could as easily say: "VGK's 2022 1st and 2023 2nd have 0 goals in 0 games. Ryan Johnson has 0 goals in 0 games."

The second sentence should read "Tage Thompson has turned into an NHL center and has 29 goals and 54 points in 141 games, oh, and Sobotka and Berglund had 8 goals and 20 points in their 108 games."

Is the Eichel trade return better than the ROR trade? Obviously. One was given away to avoid paying a $7M bonus (edit: and other off-ice reasons) which let the opposing GM play our team's GM like a fiddle. And now, Thompson is looking great on a freakishly cheap deal, and Johnson is still an asset with a solid future.

Edited January 22, 2022 by DarthEbriate

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think of Krebs as more of a Nik Backstrom light.  

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Agreed, also Thompson has turned into a really good player and Johnson has a chance to be solid as well.  They were the “prizes” from the ROR trade.  Berglund and Sobatka were cap balance and roster filler.

I was about to post an Eichel to Tuch comparison when I saw your and Brawndo’s posts.

Eichel gave us 2 g and 18 points in 21 games last year.  

Tuch so far; 3g 7a for 10 pts in only 9 games.  

 

Eichel, while injured

Tuch, after healing from an injury

In addition, the sample size from Tuch ther...wait you know what, nevemind lol

Tuch is Eichel

Krebs is Gilmour

We’re the 04 Sabres. All of it. 

Until proven otherwise might as well run with it. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Completely. If you're going to pull that you could as easily say: "VGK's 2022 1st and 2023 2nd have 0 goals in 0 games. Ryan Johnson has 0 goals in 0 games."

The second sentence should read "Tage Thompson has turned into an NHL center and has 29 goals and 54 points in 141 games, oh, and Sobotka and Berglund had 8 goals and 20 points in their 108 games."

Is the Eichel trade return better than the ROR trade? Obviously. One was given away to avoid paying a $7M bonus which let the opposing GM play our team's GM like a fiddle. And now, Thompson is looking great on a freakishly cheap deal, and Johnson is still an asset with a solid future.

Also Berglund was kind enough to skip town allowing us to void his deal and save $12 mill.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Completely. If you're going to pull that you could as easily say: "VGK's 2022 1st and 2023 2nd have 0 goals in 0 games. Ryan Johnson has 0 goals in 0 games."

The second sentence should read "Tage Thompson has turned into an NHL center and has 29 goals and 54 points in 141 games, oh, and Sobotka and Berglund had 8 goals and 20 points in their 108 games."

Is the Eichel trade return better than the ROR trade? Obviously. One was given away to avoid paying a $7M bonus which let the opposing GM play our team's GM like a fiddle. And now, Thompson is looking great on a freakishly cheap deal, and Johnson is still an asset with a solid future.

Agree, and, injured or not, the returns speak to the fact many were pointing to all along: we were trading Jack freaking Eichel. His return SHOULD be more than RORs

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Eichel, while injured

Tuch, after healing from an injury

In addition, the sample size from Tuch ther...wait you know what, nevemind lol

Tuch is Eichel

Krebs is Gilmour

We’re the 04 Sabres. All of it. 

Until proven otherwise might as well run with it. 

Don’t forget Finkle is Einhorn.

[Thorny]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Don’t forget Finkle is Einhorn.

Great call.

Literally meant to put “and as always..” haha

 

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Agreed, also Thompson has turned into a really good player and Johnson has a chance to be solid as well.  They were the “prizes” from the ROR trade.  Berglund and Sobatka were cap balance and roster filler.

I was about to post an Eichel to Tuch comparison when I saw your and Brawndo’s posts.

Eichel gave us 2 g and 18 points in 21 games last year.  

Tuch so far; 3g 7a for 10 pts in only 9 games.  

 

Eichel was injured before camp started, never healed from that injury and played hurt the entire season. I don't recall a game last season where he looked like his normal self. That he was still almost a point a game player was remarkable in and of itself. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Eichel was injured before camp started, never healed from that injury and played hurt the entire season. I don't recall a game last season where he looked like his normal self. That he was still almost a point a game player was remarkable in and of itself. 

The point of the comparison isn’t a shot at Jack, but a sign that we got a quality return for him that is making an immediate positive impact. 

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well, maybe, but I don’t really think that’s very fair. Isn’t there room for a little bit more of a down to earth comparison, without it being semantics?

Oates is one of the best playmakers of all time. Even 90% seems quite lofty. 

Was thinking more of a William Karlsson over in Vegas. I dunno if he’s all star enough for everyone, but, 60ish point, nifty, non-large C..

I’d be a little more comfortable hoping Krebs reaches that level than mounting a reasonable challenge to a HOFer or 2. 

IMHO, 90% of a typical HoFer, not a TRUE "generational" HoFer, but a typical 1 IS in today's game probably is 65-70 points.  And that's the likely best case scenario for him.  We probably get 80%.  But on an evening where the Sabres destroyed a bad Filly squad & wifey made one of her best specialties for dinner, 90% "sounds" possible.  😉

 

[DarthEbriate]

48 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Also Berglund was kind enough to skip town allowing us to void his deal and save $12 mill.

He gave us cap space to sign Hall, which won us Power! It's all coming together....

Edit: I just checked. Berglund would be in the final year of his contract this year. So I said is true from a certain point of view.

Edited January 22, 2022 by DarthEbriate

[Doohickie]

Still....

On 1/14/2022 at 10:20 AM, SDS said:

Lest anyone think John is out of the woods, this was posted today on an ADR Facebook group I belong to. 

[woods-racer]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:02 AM, Dreams Burn Down said:

People would have been camped out in front of Scotty's home and internet sleuths would have been searching for the last time that he so much as farted wrong.

The only wrong way to fart I know of, is for it to audible while amongst a large group of people.

Edited January 23, 2022 by woods-racer

[dudacek]

So can I get excited about Tuch yet?

He’s got 3 goals and 7 assists in 9 games.

He’s killing penalties and playing the PP.

He’s 10th among NHL RWs in TOI and 8th in P/G.

He’s somehow managed to be a +5 on this team

And, to the eye test, whatever line he’s on has been our best pretty much every night.

He’s fast and he wins battle and he makes good decisions with or without the puck.

Is he going to be a better player here than he’s shown so far in his career? Can he be a legitimate 1st line power forward?

Edited January 23, 2022 by dudacek