Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[DarthEbriate]

One note on the 5-game losing streak. It happened to be on he west coast trip, but what it coincided with was taking Olofsson out of the lineup (over 1 pt/gm) and putting in Hayden. We blew a 2-goal lead in Olofsson's injury game, then were scrambly no-shows in SJ/Seattle. It took time for the Sabres to rebound without the 5on5 scoring and without the PP even being worthy of respect, let alone fear that Olofsson can bring. They're getting by now that they're settled down. And that all points to a big plus on HC DG. Weathering the injury storm and still winning some games = good coaching. Oh, and Tokarski smoking.

[Taro T]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You gotta love a coach whose focus is to get his players to be the best version of them, as opposed to a cog in his system.

True.  Especially when them reaching their potential can allow them to be more than just a cog in the system.  More than a few coaches miss that nuance.  Granato doesn't.

This is absolutely a development year as evidenced by letting pretty much everybody get time in all situations.  Though he isn't an idiot about it, certain lines & pairings get more opportu items in high pressure situations than others, e.g. when their protecting a lead late Miller & Bryson will get 75% of the ice time as in his view they're the best pair he has for that role.

But it will be interesting to watch for how & how much that mindset changes when winning is the clear #1 goal & there isn't a 1B goal next season or very late in this season (please let that last 1 not just be wishful thinking).

Edited November 17, 2021 by Taro T

[Gatorman0519]

Thanks to his idea on Tage, our center spine may not be as bad as thought.... add to that a bunch of fast and skilled wingers in the stable with some really good prospects on defense and we may push for a playoff spot in a year or two.  We finally have reasonable hope. 

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

True.  Especially when them reaching their potential can allow them to be more than just a cog in the system.  More than a few coaches miss that nuance.  Granato doesn't.

This is absolutely a development year as evidenced by letting pretty much everybody get time in all situations.  Though he isn't an idiot about it, certain lines & pairings get more opportu items in high pressure situations than others, e.g. when their protecting a lead late Miller & Bryson will get 75% of the ice time as in his view they're the best pair he has for that role.

But it will be interesting to watch for how & how much that mindset changes when winning is the clear #1 goal & there isn't a 1B goal next season or very late in this season (please let that last 1 not just be wishful thinking).

I will note that I was a little concerned with like a minute left in the game when Skinner was out there to get it into the garage. Granato basically saying "you're on the team, you're going to play when we need you to" even if it's a terrible idea, is fine with me lol

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Thanks to his idea on Tage, our center spine may not be as bad as thought.... add to that a bunch of fast and skilled wingers in the stable with some really good prospects on defense and we may push for a playoff spot in a year or two.  We finally have reasonable hope. 

That, Cozens having his coming out party last Friday night, & Eakin actually settling in this year gives the spine a bit of resiliency.  None of which were givens, but all of which reflect well on the coach.

Speaking of Eakin, it's amazing how many guys don't settle into a new roster until their 2nd season.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I will note that I was a little concerned with like a minute left in the game when Skinner was out there to get it into the garage. Granato basically saying "you're on the team, you're going to play when we need you to" even if it's a terrible idea, is fine with me lol

And that's the example of where it blew up in his face in that instant, but likely will be better in the long run as Skinner actually believes his coach has faith in him & won't be sulking or overthinking a 1 shift demotion.

[PASabreFan]

24 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Thanks to his idea on Tage, our center spine may not be as bad as thought.... add to that a bunch of fast and skilled wingers in the stable with some really good prospects on defense and we may push for a playoff spot in a year or two.  We finally have reasonable hope. 

I know it's early (roughly halfway through the first period if the season were a game), but the Sabres are pushing for a spot right now!

[That Aud Smell]

Also, don't look now, but, after kissing a few frogs*, the Pegulas appear to have hired two very good head coaches.

*Has there been a conversation about Rex Ryan ≅ Ralph Krueger?

[Doohickie]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

*Has there been a conversation about Rex Ryan ≅ Ralph Krueger?

Interesting thought.

[K-9]

Magic 8 ball says:

 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I just posted in the Pittsburgh GDT that I picture a whiteboard in DG's office with a list of issues that needs to be addressed.  It's impossible to address them all simultaneously so he regularly prioritizes them and tries to solve one or two during practices between each game.  I think the work with Cozens to set him up to succeed against McDavid, Matthews and Crosby was a recent project from his list.  Maybe the power play is moving up in priority right now; if we could have scored after some of the rough play it would have swung the momentum our way.

My favorite aspect of how Granato relates the decision to have Cozens face McDavid and subsequently two of the game’s other best centers in succession, is how he describes wanting to see Cozens’s body language to determine Dylan’s response to the challenge. Donnie is tuned in. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I know it's early (roughly halfway through the first period if the season were a game), but the Sabres are pushing for a spot right now!

Currently on an 87 point pace. Some improvements and a break here or there and we could be in the hunt. 

[Taro T]

34 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Currently on an 87 point pace. Some improvements and a break here or there and we could be in the hunt. 

But if Tokarski goes down, especially w/ Anderson out, expect much poorer results.  (Though the effort will still be there.)

[DarthEbriate]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

But if Tokarski goes down, especially w/ Anderson out, expect much poorer results.  (Though the effort will still be there.)

This is why when someone runs him, we need to address it on the ice and immediately. Our PK is solid. If Toker gets popped, by golly, you pop 'em back. You shouldn't even be able to throw a punch because the entire team has jumped the person. (and then the refs are going to dole out penalties to the roughing the goalie, because clearly it was more vicious than they initially thought -- or at the very least the person who did it is off the ice for 5 minutes for fighting.)

[pi2000]

I'll preface this by saying I like Granato, he's the best coach they've had in a while (since Bylsma, who squeezed 78 points out of a team 1 year removed from the bottom of the tank).   

Granato is getting the most out of these guys and they're improving as individuals.    That's what Granato is, a developmental coach, he's the right guy for the job at this time, and he's excelling at it.   

That said, he continues to struggle with in-game adjustments.    Lindy was really good at this.   His teams could adjust on the fly and protect leads.    Granato has yet to show he can stop the bleeding mid-game or lock down a lead late in a tight contest.      He'll need to evolve as other teams figure out how to neutralize his system.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I'll preface this by saying I like Granato, he's the best coach they've had in a while (since Bylsma, who squeezed 78 points out of a team 1 year removed from the bottom of the tank).   

Granato is getting the most out of these guys and they're improving as individuals.    That's what Granato is, a developmental coach, he's the right guy for the job at this time, and he's excelling at it.   

That said, he continues to struggle with in-game adjustments.    Lindy was really good at this.   His teams could adjust on the fly and protect leads.    Granato has yet to show he can stop the bleeding mid-game or lock down a lead late in a tight contest.      He'll need to evolve as other teams figure out how to neutralize his system.

Please, tell me how with this talent level you stop the bleeding mid game when the other team with more talent starts to push. 

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Please, tell me how with this talent level you stop the bleeding mid game when the other team with more talent starts to push. 

This premise with some of these fans is literally, "Talent is irrelevant." 

[pi2000]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Please, tell me how with this talent level you stop the bleeding mid game when the other team with more talent starts to push. 

There are countless defensive systems, specifically neutral zone traps that make it very very difficult (even for superior talented teams) to maintain possession on zone entries.     I didn't see any evidence in last nights game to suggest they implemented any such system at any point in the game. 

I don't care what the talent differential is, an NHL team should never give up 20 shots (16 of which were scoring chances) in the 3rd period when protecting a lead. 

[Taro T]

51 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I'll preface this by saying I like Granato, he's the best coach they've had in a while (since Bylsma, who squeezed 78 points out of a team 1 year removed from the bottom of the tank).   

Granato is getting the most out of these guys and they're improving as individuals.    That's what Granato is, a developmental coach, he's the right guy for the job at this time, and he's excelling at it.   

That said, he continues to struggle with in-game adjustments.    Lindy was really good at this.   His teams could adjust on the fly and protect leads.    Granato has yet to show he can stop the bleeding mid-game or lock down a lead late in a tight contest.      He'll need to evolve as other teams figure out how to neutralize his system.

Yes, in general he is not making major adjustments in game, though he will make them between games (see Boucher being Hagg's partner now, not Dahlin's).  And he will refocus them in game to a degree as well- the TB 3rd period was much better played than the 2nd was.  Honestly don't know that the lack of adjustments is not by design.  He's told all these guys that they can play any situation & is walking that talk IN A YEAR WHEN DEVELOPMENT is at minimum the 1A priority w/ winning either 1B or 2. 

And even w/in that, he's benched Hayden in crunchtime while Bjork & R2 Rou2 took a shift, so it's not like he can't see the obvious and respond to it w/ guys that won't be here LT. 

Unless he flat out tells us that he'll coach differently when the priority shifts to what it ALWAYS should be which is winning, we can only assume whether he will or won't make those in game adjustments.  This kid expects he will (and will have several months at minimum of actual game play in those situations of all the guys, which is the luxury of what not caring whether you win or lose brings) when he gets there, but you may be right that he won't / can't.  Don't believe you are correct though.  (And if that take is misguided, that you actually do believe he'll adjust when the focus has changed, then not sure why the handwringing.) 

He's thrown away at least 2 points & possibly 3 leaving Skinner out at the end of the Loafs game & playing him in OT one of the games (Devils IIRC).  But LT, how many points did he gain getting Skinner at least back to a semblance of the good version of himself?

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

But if Tokarski goes down, especially w/ Anderson out, expect much poorer results.  (Though the effort will still be there.)

No doubt. Tokarski staying healthy and Anderson and the rest of the injured coming back and contributing all fall under my “ break here or there” scenario. 

[PASabreFan]

Art Wander said Phillipe Boucher had nice buns. Not sure if it was the same show where the Tot waxed poetic about split pea soup. He sure could paint a picture.

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, pi2000 said:

There are countless defensive systems, specifically neutral zone traps that make it very very difficult (even for superior talented teams) to maintain possession on zone entries.     I didn't see any evidence in last nights game to suggest they implemented any such system at any point in the game. 

I don't care what the talent differential is, an NHL team should never give up 20 shots (16 of which were scoring chances) in the 3rd period when protecting a lead. 

Why would he do that if he's trying to get his team to play an aggressive style? 

4 hours ago, SDS said:

This premise with some of these fans is literally, "Talent is irrelevant." 

Just need big farm boys who skate and hit and punch stuff. You'll win all the cups.

[triumph_communes]

The running around in their own zone is concerning. Been a few games in a row with it now. Granted that means we had a lead which is a great start, but we have to be able to keep it. 

[PerreaultForever]

9 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

The running around in their own zone is concerning. Been a few games in a row with it now. Granted that means we had a lead which is a great start, but we have to be able to keep it. 

Still better than last year, but they do seem to have trouble especially in the 3rd if the other teams kicks it up a gear like Pittsburgh did. They panic under pressure. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Still better than last year, but they do seem to have trouble especially in the 3rd if the other teams kicks it up a gear like Pittsburgh did. They panic under pressure. 

Except it doesn't seem to be a panic.  They don't overskate (in general, though on the Detroit tying goal they did overskate) nor do they totally fall back into 5 men below the circles. Seems to be more of a running out of energy.

Which, again IMHO, goes back to the other team getting the matchups they want & the overmatched Sabres not being able to match that for 60 full minutes.  The ONLY time that's happened at home for close to a whole period was in the 2nd period of the Bolts game and Granato righted that ship in the intermission.  That it doesn't happen at home often but regularly happens on the road says that matchups are a factor.  IMHO.  YMMV.