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IF the Sabres trade Jack and Sam...


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Would moving Jack and Sam in the off-season, be as big or even bigger than the 2011 off-season when the Flyers moved both Richards and Carter?

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Carter--Vorachek, 1st (Sean Couturier) and a 3rd

Richards--Schenn, Simmonds, 2nd (traded)

We should get more than that. 

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I'm not sure I can't get past this management group letting it get to this point if they don't make a win-now trade with this deal (s)

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I am expecting Alexander Mogilny or Dale Hawerchuk type trades: pick(s), solid young players, no comparable stars.  Build that way and trade for certain types of players later.  It would be silly to expect other teams to give us the players they want to add Jack and Sam to.

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21 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Carter--Vorachek, 1st (Sean Couturier) and a 3rd

Richards--Schenn, Simmonds, 2nd (traded)

We should get more than that. 

A return like that would make my pants get bigger 

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6 minutes ago, inkman said:

A return like that would make my pants get bigger 

What happened with the Kings after that deal?

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I'd be all in favor of getting rid of Eichel after reading his presser comments.  Yeah, it's been a tough six seasons but where was his leadership during all that time.  As team captain, he bears some responsibility for the team's lack of success.  As best I can tell, he did nothing to inspire hard work or team work.  All he's done is look out for his personal interests.  Doesn't deserve to wear the "C".

 

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55 minutes ago, inkman said:

A return like that would make my pants get bigger 

 

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What happened with the Kings after that deal?

Won 2 cups 

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56 minutes ago, inkman said:

A return like that would make my pants get bigger 

Knowing this team that’s the exact return we get. And I mean exact. Those same players. But at this age.

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If, as a fan, you spend time worrying about the Sabres getting 'equal value' for sam and Jack in a trade, you will drive yourself mad.  

They are likely to have to move them. They are likely to NOT get what fans think is equal value.  You have to accept that before you move on.

So instead of 'equal value', look at it this way...what can they GET for those 2 players that they can add to Mittlestadt, Cozens, Thompson, Oloffson, Aplund, Routsalainen.....Dahlin, Jokiharju, Bryson, Borgen?  Start with the base of young talent you HAVE now, and what can you add to that...and what kind of team will that get you going forward?

 

Its probably not going to get you a contending team next year (for a playoff run), but if it gets you a young exciting team that misses the playoffs again, but shows signs of having the talent to run and gun with the top teams in the league on occasion, I'm good with that for next year.

 

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23 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If, as a fan, you spend time worrying about the Sabres getting 'equal value' for sam and Jack in a trade, you will drive yourself mad.  

They are likely to have to move them. They are likely to NOT get what fans think is equal value.  You have to accept that before you move on.

So instead of 'equal value', look at it this way...what can they GET for those 2 players that they can add to Mittlestadt, Cozens, Thompson, Oloffson, Aplund, Routsalainen.....Dahlin, Jokiharju, Bryson, Borgen?  Start with the base of young talent you HAVE now, and what can you add to that...and what kind of team will that get you going forward?

 

Its probably not going to get you a contending team next year (for a playoff run), but if it gets you a young exciting team that misses the playoffs again, but shows signs of having the talent to run and gun with the top teams in the league on occasion, I'm good with that for next year.

 

The Sabres will be counting on the majority of fans to think exactly the way you just stated. This will enable the franchise to buy more time, while continuing to lose games year after year, never actually climb the standings and still drain the pocketbooks of Sabres fans everywhere. This franchise will remain the laughingstock of the league for years to come after trading away Jack and Sam. And I fully expect they will do just that. Because they are the Buffalo Sabres. 

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17 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Man... If only there was a guarantee of Hughes this year and Bedard/Michkov next year.

You have Wright and Lambert to draft first 

Who is  Considered the next Sidney Crosby

http://stevenpellis.com/the-2022-nhl-draft-is-going-to-be-wicked/

The next one? Shane Wright has the intangibles - and shot - of a generational star

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1981511/amp

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Billznut said:

The Sabres will be counting on the majority of fans to think exactly the way you just stated. This will enable the franchise to buy more time, while continuing to lose games year after year, never actually climb the standings and still drain the pocketbooks of Sabres fans everywhere. This franchise will remain the laughingstock of the league for years to come after trading away Jack and Sam. And I fully expect they will do just that. Because they are the Buffalo Sabres. 

And don't forget that they'll be managed by a guy who broke faith with his franchise player over an injury dispute. Players on the team and in the league will take notice of that.

Hey, we lost Reinhart and Eichel, but at least we still got Kevyn Adams! (Who will also be gone 2 years from now).

The Sabres are heading down the path of becoming a ghost franchise, like the Knicks.

The team isn't  moving. The owner isn't going anywhere.  But the team is not competent enough to compete for anything worthwhile.

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Let us get our heads in the right spot.  If Jack and Sam are $1 players, hope for a half-dollar coin and a pair of quarters in exchange.  Most likely, one of those is a slug.

Unless we are trading with a team that needs to shake up its core as well, we will NOT get a top player for either Jack or Sam; that defeats the purpose of the teams trading for them.  And, if I were them, I would try to just acquire Jack and/or Sam for my prospects, picks, and lower-end roster players.  Therefore, any prospect will be a year or two away from their point of view.  A 1st round pick is probably in the deal.  You will get some roster filler.

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I'd move both to the Western Conference, if I could.  Keep the East clear of them.

Eichel to LA seems to work.  Turcotte would fit in perfectly with the type of team that finished out the season.  Something like Turcotte, Vilardi, Bjornfot, and a 2021 1st.  That's the "4 1sts" Adams reportedly wants for Eichel.

Reinhart to Vancouver, Calgary, or maybe Seattle post-expansion draft.  See what Seattle picks up.  They won't get anyone as good as Reinhart, for sure, but they might have some nice pieces.

Projecting, something like Bellows, Kunin, and a 2nd.

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The more I think of it, the more I’m in favour of trading Eichel, Reinhart and Risto

Definitely Samson, his value may never be higher than it is right now 

Build around Dahlin, Cozens and UPL  Get Beniers in this years draft.  Another culture changing piece.  

For all 3 to be traded , I’d want them to bring back at least 7 first round pieces

3 or 4 guys a year or two into their NHL careers and 3 or 4 first round picks over the 2022 and 2023 drafts.
 


 

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13 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

The more I think of it, the more I’m in favour of trading Eichel, Reinhart and Risto

Definitely Samson, his value may never be higher than it is right now 

Build around Dahlin, Cozens and UPL  Get Beniers in this years draft.  Another culture changing piece.  

For all 3 to be traded , I’d want them to bring back at least 7 first round pieces

3 or 4 guys a year or two into their NHL careers and 3 or 4 first round picks over the 2022 and 2023 drafts.
 


 

^ When you can't actually build the future, just sell it, right?

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I don't like this idea, and I don't believe GM Sheevyn has the long-established connections like Yzerman to make something like it work. But if we're going to rebuild the core (again) on a youth movement, we still need some cannon fodder veterans to hold the fort for a couple years. I don't want the ATM line getting caved in head-to-head v. the Bergeron line next season.

So... I assume we need a stopgap 1C and a 1G because Ullmark would be foolish to re-sign here if Eichel and Reinhart are gone.

Expose Eichel to Seattle in exchange for:

  • 2021 Seattle 1st (3rd-5th overall) - Seattle gets Eichel, oft-injured, but happy and 1C potential
  • C Ryan Johansen + 2021 NSH 1st (20th range, or 2022 1st, whatever) - Nashville is ecstatic to get out from that contract, Seattle doesn't have any great picks from Nashville and... they get Eichel.
  • G Jonathan Quick + 2021 LAK 1st (10th-12th) - LA is ecstatic to get out from that contract, Seattle doesn't have many great selections from LAK and they get Eichel.

Add Johansen to the lineup, put the washed-up Quick in net for 40 games... voila, we're in the Top 3 sweepstakes in 2022, plus three firsts. There are other players at 1C or G who'd be better as well, but this is just an example because Quick is so washed-up that LAK might be fine to drop him for a 1st.

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1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

I don't like this idea, and I don't believe GM Sheevyn has the long-established connections like Yzerman to make something like it work. But if we're going to rebuild the core (again) on a youth movement, we still need some cannon fodder veterans to hold the fort for a couple years. I don't want the ATM line getting caved in head-to-head v. the Bergeron line next season.

So... I assume we need a stopgap 1C and a 1G because Ullmark would be foolish to re-sign here if Eichel and Reinhart are gone.

Expose Eichel to Seattle in exchange for:

  • 2021 Seattle 1st (3rd-5th overall) - Seattle gets Eichel, oft-injured, but happy and 1C potential
  • C Ryan Johansen + 2021 NSH 1st (20th range, or 2022 1st, whatever) - Nashville is ecstatic to get out from that contract, Seattle doesn't have any great picks from Nashville and... they get Eichel.
  • G Jonathan Quick + 2021 LAK 1st (10th-12th) - LA is ecstatic to get out from that contract, Seattle doesn't have many great selections from LAK and they get Eichel.

Add Johansen to the lineup, put the washed-up Quick in net for 40 games... voila, we're in the Top 3 sweepstakes in 2022, plus three firsts. There are other players at 1C or G who'd be better as well, but this is just an example because Quick is so washed-up that LAK might be fine to drop him for a 1st.

So, back to 2013 then. 

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28 minutes ago, jad1 said:

So, back to 2013 then. 

If we lose Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark, and Ristolainen in the next few months it'll amount to the same as when we jettisoned the core that they were supposed to replace. So, yes.

The difference is that last time the management decided the core was rotten and it was time to enact some suffering. This time, it's the players who've had enough of the suffering and deciding that they'll be less rotten elsewhere.

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11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

If we lose Eichel, Reinhart, Ullmark, and Ristolainen in the next few months it'll amount to the same as when we jettisoned the core that they were supposed to replace. So, yes.

The difference is that last time the management decided the core was rotten and it was time to enact some suffering. This time, it's the players who've had enough of the suffering and deciding that they'll be less rotten elsewhere.

Well we're dead last with them so we can't actually be worse.

I don't consider those 4 similar but the first two have not delivered what you need to win. I guess I'm way in the minority, but if it doesn't change and they're both here again that was making me consider finally giving up on the Sabres after some 48 years or so of watching them. A complete reboot without them is probably the only thing that'll keep me a fan. 

I guess this thing is going to be polarizing to the extreme. 

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