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1 minute ago, rakish said:

Oh, you're probably right. I'm not trying to predict what the Buffalo Sabres are going to do, I merely meant Asplund as a placeholder for a (about a) one million contract. I wonder what Pilut's status is.

Sabres retained his rights by making the QO last season and it's been reported he could buy out of his KHL deal.  So, he'll be available for Seattle to draft, but it's hard to come up with a scenario where Seattle would bite on him.  Sabres would not only have to want to keep all of Ristolainen, Dahlin, Borgen, & Jokiharju (very plausible) but also want to keep Miller enough to add to the offer to get Pilut chosen or Seattle would want to avoid Miller enough that Larry gets asked for instead along w/ a pick to let the Sabres keep the other 4.

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Just now, Thwomp! said:

Contract plays a big part.  Borgen makes less than a million and is a RFA after this year.  You're probably saving ~$4 million in cap by trading Risto for Borgen.

Without sweeteners, I think Seattle takes Borgen or Bjork if they can.  My goal would be to set it up so they'd have to take Miller, Risto, Girgensons, or Eakin.  Okposo would be great too, but not very likely.

If Seattle takes Bjork without any other enticement from the Sabres, the Hall trade looks better as it becomes Hall for a 1/2 salary retain & a 2nd with Seattle effectively taking Lazar letting the Sabres keep everybody else they care about.

Yes, Bjork could become a player, but so could Borgen & Jokiharju worked well w/ Scandella, did NOT work well w/ Dahlin under Krueger but is looking better w/ him post Krueger.

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Well this is why we should have traded Risto at the deadline but no matter, leaving him exposed is nuts and won't happen. 

What they get from us is probably not a high priority for them and will depend on what positions they've already filled from other teams.

Maybe Adams picked up Bjork as the man to dangle in front of them? Hard to say. I wouldn't give them incentives on anyone. Let them have whoever and move on. Nobody that valuable at issue. 

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1 minute ago, Taro T said:

If Seattle takes Bjork without any other enticement from the Sabres, the Hall trade looks better as it becomes Hall for a 1/2 salary retain & a 2nd with Seattle effectively taking Lazar letting the Sabres keep everybody else they care about.

Yes, Bjork could become a player, but so could Borgen & Jokiharju worked well w/ Scandella, did NOT work well w/ Dahlin under Krueger but is looking better w/ him post Krueger.

Good point about the Hall trade.  Bjork could become a player.  I'm trying to keep Bjork over all the others that we already know are NOT players on a successful future Sabres team, but I'd rather lose him than Borgen any day.

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3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Y'all are nuts.  Leave VO exposed.  Leave Risto exposed.  All to save a 24 year D with 8 games of NHL experience.  I like Borgen also, but if management really really wants to keep him, either work a deal for them to take Miller or someone else.  Do what Jbot did with Carrier and Ullmark.  There is some way over thinking going on.  Honestly Samuelsson is a better version of Borgen, but from the other side.

My guess is Seattle will want some vets and someone to run their PP.  Miller is a perfect candidate.  A PP asset and on a not unreasonable 1 year contract.  They may take Miller anyway without incentive (although I'd squeeze us for something if I were Seattle's GM).  Remember that have to take some veteran contracts.

You protect Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, Asplund, VO, Mitts and Thompson up front.  Risto, Dahlin and Jokiharju on defense.  You expose KO, Bjork, Torgarski, Borgen, Girgensons, Eakin, and Miller.  KA should then work a deal with Sea to take Miller and give them a 5th to do it.

If Seattle goes a different direction and takes Girgensons.  Borgen is going to have to work hard to beating out Miller for the 3rd RD spot.  

The folks looking to protect Borgen are projecting a more balanced defence.  There is significant value in that.  He’s also a player that still has room to grow.  Risto is wysiwyg.

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There's obviously no guarantee he hits it or even comes close, but I believe Borgen's ceiling is Parayko. 

Physical edge, snuff literally anything out before it starts, decent in transition 

Edited by Randall Flagg
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6 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

Like LGR said, this contradicts what I have seen, can you show where you found this?

This is from cap friendly web site and Seattle expansion draft simulator. I can not tell if this is updated each day or was status at the beginning of year.

checked players are eligible and GR means games remaining to be eligible.

 

FORWARDS    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY    27/54

Eichel, Jack    24    C    $10,000,000    UFA (2026)    ✔
NMC-Waived Skinner, Jeff    28    LW    $9,000,000    UFA (2027)    ✔
Okposo, Kyle    32    RW    $6,000,000    UFA (2023)    ✔
Reinhart, Sam    25    RW    $5,200,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Olofsson, Victor    25    LW    $3,050,000    RFA (2022)    ✔
Eakin, Cody    29    C    $2,250,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
Girgensons, Zemgus    27    C    $2,200,000    UFA (2023)    ✔
Bjork, Anders    24    LW    $1,600,000    RFA (2023)    ✔
Thompson, Tage    23    C    $1,400,000    RFA (2023)    3 GR
Mittelstadt, Casey    22    C    $874,125    RFA (2021)    ✔
Asplund, Rasmus    23    C    $845,000    RFA (2021)    11 GR
Oglevie, Andrew    26    C    $750,000    UFA (2022)    27 GR
Dea, Jean-Sébastien    27    C    $700,000    UFA (2021)    26 GR
Caggiula, Drake    26    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Rieder, Tobias    28    RW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Sheahan, Riley    29    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Fogarty, Steven    27    C    $700,000    UFA (2021)    19 GR
Smith, C.J.    26    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    26 GR

 

DEFENSE    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY    27/54
Ristolainen, Rasmus    26    RD    $5,400,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
Miller, Colin    28    RD    $3,875,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
McCabe, Jake    27    LD    $2,850,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Dahlin, Rasmus    21    LD    $925,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Jokiharju, Henri    21    RD    $925,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Borgen, William    24    RD    $864,166    RFA (2021)    23 GR
Irwin, Matt    33    LD/RD    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Davidson, Brandon    29    LD    $700,000    UFA (2021)    21 GR
Pilut, Lawrence    25    LD    $925,000    RFA (2020)    27 GR

 

GOALTENDER    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY
Hutton, Carter    35    G    $2,750,000    UFA (2021)
Ullmark, Linus    27    G    $2,600,000    UFA (2021)
Tokarski, Dustin    31    G    $725,000    UFA (2022)

 

EXEMPT    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY

Ruotsalainen, Arttu    23    C    $925,000    RFA (2022)
Quinn, Jack    19    RW    $925,000    RFA (2023)
Biro, Brandon    23    LW    $925,000    RFA (2022)
Cozens, Dylan    20    C    $894,167    RFA (2023)
Murray, Brett    22    LW    $775,000    RFA (2022)
Pekar, Matej    21    C    $764,167    RFA (2023)
DiPietro, Dawson    25    C    $750,000    RFA (2021)
Weissbach, Linus    22    LW    $0    RFA (2023)
Samuelsson, Mattias    21    LD    $925,000    RFA (2023)
Bryson, Jacob    23    LD    $889,166    RFA (2022)
Fitzgerald, Casey    24    RD    $858,750    RFA (2021)
Laaksonen, Oskari    21    RD    $853,333    RFA (2023)
Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka    22    G    $778,333    RFA (2022)
Houser, Michael    28    G    $700,000    UFA (2021)
 

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18 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

There's obviously no guarantee he hits it or even comes close, but I believe Borgen's ceiling is Parayko. 

Physical edge, snuff literally anything out before it starts, decent in transition 

Are we really so stupid that we kept a player that good on the taxi squad and in the minors? Honest question.

(And for the record, Parakyo is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, and his least productive season in the past nine years was 17 points in 33 games as a college freshman. Borgen's most productive at any level was 15 points in 36 games as a college junior)

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7 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

This is from cap friendly web site and Seattle expansion draft simulator. I can not tell if this is updated each day or was status at the beginning of year.

checked players are eligible and GR means games remaining to be eligible.

 

FORWARDS    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY    27/54

Eichel, Jack    24    C    $10,000,000    UFA (2026)    ✔
NMC-Waived Skinner, Jeff    28    LW    $9,000,000    UFA (2027)    ✔
Okposo, Kyle    32    RW    $6,000,000    UFA (2023)    ✔
Reinhart, Sam    25    RW    $5,200,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Olofsson, Victor    25    LW    $3,050,000    RFA (2022)    ✔
Eakin, Cody    29    C    $2,250,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
Girgensons, Zemgus    27    C    $2,200,000    UFA (2023)    ✔
Bjork, Anders    24    LW    $1,600,000    RFA (2023)    ✔
Thompson, Tage    23    C    $1,400,000    RFA (2023)    3 GR
Mittelstadt, Casey    22    C    $874,125    RFA (2021)    ✔
Asplund, Rasmus    23    C    $845,000    RFA (2021)    11 GR
Oglevie, Andrew    26    C    $750,000    UFA (2022)    27 GR
Dea, Jean-Sébastien    27    C    $700,000    UFA (2021)    26 GR
Caggiula, Drake    26    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Rieder, Tobias    28    RW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Sheahan, Riley    29    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Fogarty, Steven    27    C    $700,000    UFA (2021)    19 GR
Smith, C.J.    26    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    26 GR

 

DEFENSE    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY    27/54
Ristolainen, Rasmus    26    RD    $5,400,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
Miller, Colin    28    RD    $3,875,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
McCabe, Jake    27    LD    $2,850,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Dahlin, Rasmus    21    LD    $925,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Jokiharju, Henri    21    RD    $925,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Borgen, William    24    RD    $864,166    RFA (2021)    23 GR
Irwin, Matt    33    LD/RD    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Davidson, Brandon    29    LD    $700,000    UFA (2021)    21 GR
Pilut, Lawrence    25    LD    $925,000    RFA (2020)    27 GR

 

GOALTENDER    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY
Hutton, Carter    35    G    $2,750,000    UFA (2021)
Ullmark, Linus    27    G    $2,600,000    UFA (2021)
Tokarski, Dustin    31    G    $725,000    UFA (2022)

 

EXEMPT    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY

Ruotsalainen, Arttu    23    C    $925,000    RFA (2022)
Quinn, Jack    19    RW    $925,000    RFA (2023)
Biro, Brandon    23    LW    $925,000    RFA (2022)
Cozens, Dylan    20    C    $894,167    RFA (2023)
Murray, Brett    22    LW    $775,000    RFA (2022)
Pekar, Matej    21    C    $764,167    RFA (2023)
DiPietro, Dawson    25    C    $750,000    RFA (2021)
Weissbach, Linus    22    LW    $0    RFA (2023)
Samuelsson, Mattias    21    LD    $925,000    RFA (2023)
Bryson, Jacob    23    LD    $889,166    RFA (2022)
Fitzgerald, Casey    24    RD    $858,750    RFA (2021)
Laaksonen, Oskari    21    RD    $853,333    RFA (2023)
Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka    22    G    $778,333    RFA (2022)
Houser, Michael    28    G    $700,000    UFA (2021)
 

That GR doesn't represent how many games left until you have to protect him. I think it's how many games left until he counts as towards the number of players you must expose. (Teams have to expose a minimum number of "NHL" vets)

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3 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

This is from cap friendly web site and Seattle expansion draft simulator. I can not tell if this is updated each day or was status at the beginning of year.

checked players are eligible and GR means games remaining to be eligible.

</snip>

 

 

Ok, here's my theory. May be a bad theory, here goes:

What the list is telling you is you need to make available certain number of players at each position. That eligibility depends on the number of games played. Now that is different than whether a player is eligible or not. Bryson is not eligible because he is a second year player. Borgen is eligible because he is a third year player. Although Bryson signed 2 years ago today, he doesn't become a third year player because he didn't play 10 games in 2018-2019. Since Borgan is eligible, you (the GM) need to consider whether he counts toward the number of required defensemen you need to expose. This is a different calculation

Just now, dudacek said:

That GR doesn't represent how many games left until you have to protect him. I think it's how many games left until he counts as towards the number of players you must expose. (Teams have to expose a minimum number of "NHL" vets)

Dude, I was not typing yet

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5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Are we really so stupid that we kept a player that good on the taxi squad and in the minors? Honest question.

(And for the record, Parakyo is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, and his least productive season in the past nine years was 17 points in 33 games as a college freshman. Borgen's most productive at any level was 15 points in 36 games as a college junior)

Didn't realize Parayko had some offense. I don't care about Borgen's offense

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2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

This is from cap friendly web site and Seattle expansion draft simulator. I can not tell if this is updated each day or was status at the beginning of year.

checked players are eligible and GR means games remaining to be eligible.

 

FORWARDS    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY    27/54

Eichel, Jack    24    C    $10,000,000    UFA (2026)    ✔
NMC-Waived Skinner, Jeff    28    LW    $9,000,000    UFA (2027)    ✔
Okposo, Kyle    32    RW    $6,000,000    UFA (2023)    ✔
Reinhart, Sam    25    RW    $5,200,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Olofsson, Victor    25    LW    $3,050,000    RFA (2022)    ✔
Eakin, Cody    29    C    $2,250,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
Girgensons, Zemgus    27    C    $2,200,000    UFA (2023)    ✔
Bjork, Anders    24    LW    $1,600,000    RFA (2023)    ✔
Thompson, Tage    23    C    $1,400,000    RFA (2023)    3 GR
Mittelstadt, Casey    22    C    $874,125    RFA (2021)    ✔
Asplund, Rasmus    23    C    $845,000    RFA (2021)    11 GR
Oglevie, Andrew    26    C    $750,000    UFA (2022)    27 GR
Dea, Jean-Sébastien    27    C    $700,000    UFA (2021)    26 GR
Caggiula, Drake    26    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Rieder, Tobias    28    RW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Sheahan, Riley    29    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Fogarty, Steven    27    C    $700,000    UFA (2021)    19 GR
Smith, C.J.    26    LW    $700,000    UFA (2021)    26 GR

 

DEFENSE    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY    27/54
Ristolainen, Rasmus    26    RD    $5,400,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
Miller, Colin    28    RD    $3,875,000    UFA (2022)    ✔
McCabe, Jake    27    LD    $2,850,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Dahlin, Rasmus    21    LD    $925,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Jokiharju, Henri    21    RD    $925,000    RFA (2021)    ✔
Borgen, William    24    RD    $864,166    RFA (2021)    23 GR
Irwin, Matt    33    LD/RD    $700,000    UFA (2021)    ✔
Davidson, Brandon    29    LD    $700,000    UFA (2021)    21 GR
Pilut, Lawrence    25    LD    $925,000    RFA (2020)    27 GR

 

GOALTENDER    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY
Hutton, Carter    35    G    $2,750,000    UFA (2021)
Ullmark, Linus    27    G    $2,600,000    UFA (2021)
Tokarski, Dustin    31    G    $725,000    UFA (2022)

 

EXEMPT    AGE    POS    CAP HIT    EXPIRY

Ruotsalainen, Arttu    23    C    $925,000    RFA (2022)
Quinn, Jack    19    RW    $925,000    RFA (2023)
Biro, Brandon    23    LW    $925,000    RFA (2022)
Cozens, Dylan    20    C    $894,167    RFA (2023)
Murray, Brett    22    LW    $775,000    RFA (2022)
Pekar, Matej    21    C    $764,167    RFA (2023)
DiPietro, Dawson    25    C    $750,000    RFA (2021)
Weissbach, Linus    22    LW    $0    RFA (2023)
Samuelsson, Mattias    21    LD    $925,000    RFA (2023)
Bryson, Jacob    23    LD    $889,166    RFA (2022)
Fitzgerald, Casey    24    RD    $858,750    RFA (2021)
Laaksonen, Oskari    21    RD    $853,333    RFA (2023)
Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka    22    G    $778,333    RFA (2022)
Houser, Michael    28    G    $700,000    UFA (2021)
 

 

Here's what was written on a SBNation post back in '17 heading into the Vegas draft and the rules for eligibility are supposed to be identical (though obviously, the salary cap targets will be different).  Apologies for not crediting the original author, don't still have that info.  Also, my comments are in (parenthesis).

Quote:

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.  (Almost positive that should be 8+1, not 9 as am almost positive 2 or more goalies can not be protected in any case.) 


All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.. (Pretty sure players w/ partial NMC / NTC DON'T have to be protected, but not 100% sure on that either.)

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt. (So, Thompson is not exempt from the draft.  That games remaining to status change refer to whether they meet the vriteria to count towards having a minimum # available as others here have stated.)


Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2017-18 (2020-21) and played at least 40 NHL games in 2016-17 (2020-21) or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2015-16 (2019-20). (No data on how the shortened seasons effect the games played #'s.)  Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2017-18 (2021-22, Tokarski fulfills this requirement for the Sabres.)  season or about to enter restricted free agency.

 

Golden Knights selection rules

Vegas must select one player from each franchise.


The final roster must include at least 14 forwards, nine defensemen, and three goaltenders.
At least 20 of the 30 players selected have to be under contract for the 2017-18 (2021-22) season.


The total cap hit of players selected must be between $43.8 million and $73 million.  (No data on actual #'s for Seattle.)

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2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Are we really so stupid that we kept a player that good on the taxi squad and in the minors? Honest question.

(And for the record, Parakyo is three inches taller and 25 pounds heavier, and his least productive season in the past nine years was 17 points in 33 games as a college freshman. Borgen's most productive at any level was 15 points in 36 games as a college junior)


I think Borgen comparisons may be a tad overblown.  He's 24 going on 25.  He's played 8 NHL games and has registered 0 points.  And he has 25 points in 140 AHL games.  

Any other team in the league is praying you pick this guy - he could be the next mike weber for all we know.  I'm not saying I want to lose him, I just have no loyalty to a defenseman that couldn't crack this team the last few years, bad coaching or not.

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10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Your exposing Ristolainen?  Asplund isn’t exempt.  

Another case of bad asset management.  Borgen is very replaceable.  8 NHL games at 24 screams replaceable player.  

If KA protects Bjork over Asplund and Borgen over anyone else he needs to have his head examined.  

We are losing one player off the worst team in the NHL.  No biggie.

 

I’m protecting Borden hard. I’m trading Risto before the expansion draft.

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11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Seattle has a very good analytics department. They won't take him. 

This is probably true, but I don’t see how you could say this definitively.  This is a team with no players.

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On 4/15/2021 at 7:14 PM, Hoss said:

I’m protecting Borden hard. I’m trading Risto before the expansion draft.

Ppl are slowly convincing me to keep Ristolainen. I went from no way to maybe...

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On 4/15/2021 at 6:59 AM, sweetlou said:

Barring any trades in off season before draft, whois on your Sabres protection list?

my 7 forwards are:

Eichel, Skinner(NMC), Reinhart, Mitts,Thomspon, Bjork, and Olofsson

3 defenseman are:

Dahlin, Joker, Borgen

goalie:

Ullmark

I would go with 8 players and protect Risto as the 4th D, and expose Thompson, Bjork, and Olofsson. Any one of them can be replaced easier than Risto as a veteran D, who also would have greater trade value if it comes to that. Ruotsalainen can replace Olofsson as the PP sniper if needed.

 

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Ppl are slowly convincing me to keep Ristolainen. I went from no way to maybe...

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Yeah with Donny Meatballs breaking down how Risto mentored Bryson and now Samuelsson, coach definitely is on team Risto.  The only way I’d want to see him go is if it makes the team better.  

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Here's another way of looking at it: Is Will Borgen really one of this team's 8 or even 10 best players?

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Just now, North Buffalo said:

Hmm do you protect Skinner?  His contract is prohibitive?

His NMC means he is automatically on your protected list.

He does have the option of waiving, which would allow the Sabres to use that spot for another player.

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Just now, dudacek said:

His NMC means he is automatically on your protected list.

He does have the option of waiving, which would allow the Sabres to use that spot for another player.

Sorry meant to add that in

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